I find it really weird that nobody seems to be buying/posting/using the G11 and the S90. What gives?
I find it really weird that nobody seems to be buying/posting/using the G11 and the S90. What gives?
I have one and I am still evaluating it but it looks good so far.
I was looking at the G11 but when I tried it instore, decided it's not for me.
It's not as sleek as the G9, my favorite G camera.
It has that military, boxy feel to it.
I made a few frames on my card and passed it up after pp the images.
I have a G11 on order, a friend is bringing it here from California after Christmas, less than half price compared to Sweden. I read a lot about the S90 but it seemed overpriced considering the compromising lens design and heavy barrel distortion.
I have an S90 (with the Franiec grip) and have had all the others including the G11.
The S90 is a pocket camera; none of the others is (unless you are talking big coat pockets).
@ Lars: the supplied software, DPP, corrects the WA distortion with a single click; I posted an example somewhere else here. Really impressive, IMHO, and this hardware–software interaction is the way we are moving, I feel. Honestly, I have some excellent and expensive lenses, but if we are talking high-end P&S, I think the partial software solution is sensible, if it gives the results. I have a bunch of images from the Caymans (a nursery) to process; will post one or two later (next week).
I kept the G1 (like Vivek, I feel the designers really hit the mark with this first iteration of the µ4/3rds camera).
This is a way for the camera manufacturer to save tons of money on the hardware construction. I can only dream of the profit margins on the S90 - likely much, much higher than on the G11.
I get your position totally Lars, but honestly feel the rules are different for these cheap cameras (what, $499 USD?). That makes it a toy in my book, and all I am interested in is the final IQ. As an aside, there is a certain intelligence in doing in software what real mechanical and optical precision otherwise would be needed that is attractive in its own right for these low-end devices.
And I agree about the software dependency aspect too, but if this approach becomes more common, then the problem is lessened. cheers kl
I thought the new opcodes were an effort to standardize the lens corrections to address your concerns. Maybe I'm over simplifying things but I thought that is what Panasonic/Olympus etc are using. In addition to Adobe, C1 and Silkypix seem to be able to handle the lens corrections. If you get forced to use camera manufacturer specific software (like DPP or NX) to correct the distortion, I agree with you. I won't change my workflow to deal with one camera, I just won't buy it.
The g11 doesnt rely (as much?) on software correction of distorsion like the G11.
By the way Hasselblad, Mamiya and other do it to
If we talk about price.... the S90 and G11 might be expensive compared to small-sensor digicams, but on the other side if you compare it to a dp1, dp2, the Ricohs or even 4/3 you get with the g11 a good image taking tool with a 28-140mm/2.8-4.5 lens for roughly 500€. I think the price is ok.
Personally I have decided for a g11 for several reasons (was choosing between S90,G11,D-Lux 4, GF1,GRD) and from the first results I am surprized how good the images look.
- very sharp,
- good exposure metering
- balanced flash images
- very good compromise between noise reduction and detail in higher ISO jpgs
- colors look balanced to me too, specially at higher ISO I clearly prefer it over images from the Sigma dp1/2
For me this is the first small sensor camera I have tried where I find such image quality (again-only first impressions).
I find myself using wide angle quite often.
Also the large DOF of a small sensor is more often an advantage than an disadvantage for the kind of images I plan to use the g11 for.
The only thing I miss is 720p video.
This camera has some really nice things which complement a DSLR.
The large DOF is one, another one is the posibility to shoot 1/1000 flash sync. Together with the built in ND-filter this means I can fill-flash in bright light (snow/beach).
With the swicel display and the DOF together with a low minimum focusing distance this camera also allows interesting Macro photography.
I believe with the 4/3 hype small sensors are overseen nowadays.
As nice as 4/3 is (my wife uses a gh1 and I like it for its flexibility) large sensors in small cameras still mean to be bound to either a fixed focal length if you want to keep it relativly small.
If I had it as the one and only camera I might have prefered a 4/3, but as an add on camera I prefer the g11.
I will now sell my Sigma dp.
Another thing that made me prefer the G11 over the S90 is the aperture on the tele end. S90 loses a factor of 6x from wide to tele whereas G11 loses 2.6x. I prefer a wider aperture on the tele end, for shallow DOF and for shorter shutter times. The S90 is brighter at the wide end, but that's less important.
Whether that matters in real life photography I cannot say, as I have not yet used either camera.
finally had a chance to handle both at best buy. what struck me was the cheap construction. the g11 nowhere near as well-built as the g5 or dp1. of the two the g11 obviously offers the most. but it's very plastic. i don't know if you can set buttons like the ricoh or dp1. the dials certainly could not be seen under dark conditions. the viewfinder small and not full framed. still, as a journalistic backup, i'd get it for the speed. the s90 didn't seem worthy of consideration, not at 400 dollars.
I dont think the g11 feels overall cheeper than the dp1. The dials are a great user unterface.
The viewfinder is small and tunnellike-I dont know if I use it, maybe in very bright light or for stabillizing the camera when shooting long exp times.
Maybe sturdy plastic is even more resistant than thin metal (we are not talking about "heavy" metal/brass ala Leica M).
points well-taken. please post some pics when you get some you like. thanks.
Two more weeks until I get my G11. Thinking about optical viewfinder, and what losing OVF on mainstream cameras means for people who require reading glasses for focusing at close distances. I just got my first reading glasses (I'm 47). My previous compact camera has no OVF, and it is becoming a problem (but my near vision was fine when I got that camera a few years ago). Another reason to shy away from the S90, I'm afraid.
We'll see how usable the G11 finder is. The G9 finder I did not care for much.
Last edited by Lars; 9th December 2009 at 13:48.
So far I am happy to decide for the g11.
The G11 is clearly more a jacket pocket camera while the S90 fits in a shirt-pocket. However I really really like the user interface of the g11.
s90; What a sensor! It's a perfect little always-with-you camera that has a charming double personality: a good quality RAW shooter that delivers files you can get lots from and an Auto everything jpeg party shooter that even takes ambient light into consideration when taking indoor flash snaps. Talking of personality, one funny trait is the fact that said RAW files seem to come out with more sharpening than the jpegs, go figure.
Anyway, the man said posting, so I thought coming from the m4/3rds crowd I'd show you a couple of side-by-sides with a G1. All shots 16bit Raws just tapping the Auto button in Camera RAW then downsampled to jpegs for posting. I found that the s90's responded well to the Shadow-Highlight command in Photoshop at 100% Highlight/50% Tonal Width and the bottom slider I always leave on at the maximum 2500 anyway; no halos this way. No sharpening - as stated before, the s90's don't need them and I thought it fairer not to touch the G1's.
First the 28mm equivalent pair. Both at f/3.5 as that's the maximum aperture on the G1's kit zoom and although the s90 boasts f/2 at 28mm equivalent it's only for emergencies, f/2:8 is fine but for a bit more dynamic range I'd say f/4's the sweet spot (naturally at this sensor size, depth of field is the same anywhere you set the aperture on shots like this).
This second pair is at 90mm equivalent on the G1 (max zoom) and 105mm equivalent on the s90 (max zoom) both widest aperture here, i.e. f/5.6 on the G1 and f/4.9 on the s90.
Have fun (resisting temptation, that is!)
Thanks for posting
I'm not quite sure what you want to communicate with these samples though - lighting is ideal so any camera on the market (and some phones) would have produced similar results (at this moderate resolution).
Not meaning to be rude here... but I do think the question needs to be asked what can anyone read out of the posted samples?
The only thing I see worth noting is that the S90 blows highlights in a less flattering way than the G1 (highlight reflection in the boat).
I'm not quite sure about any camera producing similar results - I've had a few jpeg only models in the past and they couldn't have managed what this new one does. Re "moderate resolution", naturally all 72 dpi screen examples posted on the web are not indicative of what's really possible but I merely wished to whet some appetites as to the s90's capabilities as a very small camera that won't let you down as much as many offerings on the market. I could post the usual ISO comparisons taken in dark corners but they're readily available elsewhere.
Oh well, just one, (with corresponding blown highlight I know) 1600 ISO 1/800 at f/8:
I trust this will at least promote some even better posted examples than mine as per the OP's original wish.
As a comparison, my G1 blows highlights in a less flattering way than my D700 - sensor size is sensor size after all
DXO has just posted it DXO Mark ratings on the G11 and the S90. Very impressive for such small cameras. They beat out the LX3 which is no slouch.
I gave this camera as a gift to my wife. Until now, she never got her camera with her at night, because her earlier Canon 950 was usable only up to 400 ISO.
Tonight she tried the S90 at 800 ISO, and the results were more than acceptable. In fact, combined with the 28mm/F2 wide end, this is a perfect small camera for street shots. I liked it too.
Canon's move towards better high ISO performance vs. high pixel race was a very clever decision IMO. Of course they still race with some other models that they have. But S90 is very valuable for more advanced photographers.
Here is a sample at 800 ISO and one with 320 ISO.
1600 ISO with the g11.
For some reason the image looks different in IE compared to looking at it in PS.
I prefered to convert from raw and less/no noise reduction. There is some noise in the image but therefore more detail IMO.
I post this because I am impressed by this camera. For me its the first small sensor cam I have tried which allows such higher ISO images. (I have however not tried the LX3 and GRDIII which I guess alow the same thing). Being able to work with raw and to choose between noise reduction smearing and noise is a key feature for me. Overall I would say many compacts have to much noise reduction going on. Is this really what the user/customer wants? I wish I could also set the level of noise reduction for incamera jpgs withthe g11. Or is it possible and I just dont know how to do it?
here is one with 400ISO:
Last edited by Paratom; 14th December 2009 at 01:00.
I downloaded a bunch of RAW files from a review of the S90 and in anything but ideal conditions the shadows turned into blotchy messes just like most small sensor cameras. They had a plasticky feel as well, common to this type of camera. They're getting better, but not up to the level of m4/3 yet.
Lars, I owned the G10 for exactly 30 minutes! I took a few shots, processed the raw files, saw the godawful mess at ISO 400 and higher and packed it up to return to Amazon. I hope the G11 is better.
It's the first pocketable small-sensor camera I have come across with a moderately useable high ISO capability. The fast (at 28mm) zoom makes for some interesting available light opportunities. Unfortunately the lens is soft at the edges at 28mm, even stopped down, but quite sharp in the center.
Here are some samples at various ISO settings.
Last edited by Arne Hvaring; 13th June 2011 at 11:10.
I got a chance to play with an S90 at the store yesterday. Nice little thing but it really needs an aftermarket grip. It's a little surprising that Canon prioritized form over function in that aspect, as the S90 clearly is a photographer's camera.
I got around to processing images from a shoot in a nursery in the Cayman Islands: very high DR lighting, so a challenge for a small sensor. All shot in Raw and processed in CS4.
A favour for a friend, for a new web site. I didn't have a real camera with me.
I fitted mine with the Franiec grip; essential, IMHO.
cheers to all, kl
I’ve taken some photos with it last week while in Portugal…but since I was also using the E-P1 with my new 17mm I didn’t use the S90 that much. I did do some iso 1600 tests that turned out better than anything I’ve shot with the LX3 at this iso (and I was shooting jpegs with the S90!). I’m still processing the E-P1 files, but when I’m done I’ll get cracking on the S90’s.
I really like the fact that this is a TRUE pocket camera (I had it on my jeans all day long). The front wheel is great (I set it to aperture), but I also like an iso dedicate wheel.
What do you guys use to process out color noise at ISO 800 or 1600? I see now that my somewhat ancient CS2/ACR solution does not work well with G11 files. In-camera processed jpegs look good though.
A little more love for the S90
Beautiful Arne! Could you add line breaks between the images? My browser lines them up sideways.
Arne, lovely as always.
On the matter of the grip: it makes no difference to the ergonomic of actually taking an image, but all the rest of the time (walking, holding, putting in and taking out of a pocket, etc.) makes an incalculable difference. And the grip I recommended is CNC-machined from a block of solid aluminium, and weights practically nothing (it's only a few millimetres thick). hth, kl
Thank you. It looks nicely made and well integrated.
I am a Nikon DSLR guy using Leica and Zeiss ZF lenses for optimal image quality, but I did not hesitate to get a Canon S90 to benefit of the best quality available in a small pocket shirt compact priced below $1000 (I exclude automatically the Leica X1 due to its outragious price point even if qualitywise it is one notch higher).
The S90 over exposes by2/3 EV during the day and exposes perfectly at night. Using the exposure compensation rear wheel is easy and fixes the issue.
Minor minuses are: exposure compensation wheel can be accidentally turned too easily. The lens is soft at f/2.0 in the corners.
First photo: ISO 80, f/8
2nd photo: ISO 80, f/2.0