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Opinions? Ditch the DSLR for a small sensor camera?

Joan

New member
Hi All,


I'm new to register here, but have been reading this forum avidly for the last couple of months thanks to learning from Terry (TEBnewyork) about how great it is. Thanks to you all for your contributions and all of the eye candy, amazing bunch of shooters here!

Thought you might be willing to indulge me with your opinions about turning away from a DLSR (I currently have the little Oly E410) and returning to the joys of a fixed lens camera. Over the last year and a half I've been trying to find the right camera for myself and have bought and sold the D-Lux 3, the Canon G7, and the Panasonic FZ8. The E410 remains for now, along with a Panny TZ3 for a fun carry-everywhere cam. Sad to say, I really haven't been totally happy with any of them. :banghead: While the E410 undoubtedly has the best IQ of the lot, I'm really not fond of the 'character' of the shots I'm getting with the kit lenses. There's just no charm to them, if that makes any sense. (???) The D-Lux 3 was my favorite of those I've tried and I would have been very happy with it if only it had some sort of viewfinder ... I really prefer holding a camera up to my eye and using my face as a support!

So, now I'm pondering the idea of buying either:
1) Used Digilux 2 (has a new sensor)
2) Ricoh GX-100
3) Leica V-Lux 1

Pros for the D2 are the LENS (love it), good EVF, clean files at ISO 100, sturdy build and high resale/collectible value Cons are "only" 5mp and blotchy noise at higher ISO's.

Pros for the GX-100 are portability - size is perfect - detachable EVF, 24mm wide end, price. Cons are the 'dust problem' and questionable reliability for the long haul.

Pros for the V-Lux - good EVF, great lens/versatility with the long zoom, love the aperture and zoom rings, familiarity and comfort with menus and controls. Cons - large, 36mm at the wide end (could get the add-on WA lens though)

All of these cameras are appealing and I just can't make up my mind which to buy. If you were going to replace the E410 with one of these, which would you choose? I primarily want to have FUN and learn more about photography, have no real requirements for the ultimate IQ, but would like to be able to be proud of the few good shots I may get and hang 'em on my wall. :) Interests are travel, landscapes, nature, and people watching. Also want to use some of my photos as reference material for paintings (I am a watercolor painter.)


Thanks for any input you may have,
Joan
 

jonoslack

Active member
HI Joan (and welcome)
One thing you should understand straight away is that you aren't going to get better image quality from any of these cameras than you are already getting from your E410. Mind you, maybe that isn't the point?

I keep thinking it'd be nice to have a small camera with a big zoom range . . .and then when I get them I'm fed up with the image quality.

I've not used an E410, but I use an E3 a lot, and I've had lots of other Oly dSLR's - I like the colour particularly, and I've always felt the image quality is pretty good - mind you, I have used the better lenses.

I think you're best bet is to nick one of Terry's M8's when she isn't looking!
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Joan,

Welcome! Well, I have either had, or have all the cameras you're considering. I had the Digilux 2 and loved/hated it for all the reasons you mention. I currently have the V-Lux 1 and the GX100 (as well as the GRD II and the TZ3). Be aware that both the Digilux 2 and the V-Lux 1 are almost, if not as big as a regular DSLR. If you start adding complimentary lenses for wide angle then you may as well stick with a DSLR.

The GX100 is a great little camera (as is the GRD II) and worthy of trying out. I'd recommend that instead of the available EVF, however, that you get some Voigtlander dedicated viewfinders. They are MUCH more usable. I have the CV 28/35mm which also show the 24mm view, the 50mm and the 75mm.

Even though I have a pair of M8s, I often will just venture out with the GX100 and the GRD II, typically with the 21mm lens on the GRD II and the GX100 set at 50mm (with appropriate VF).

The charm of the Ricohs is that you can shoot RAW, and set them up for Snap mode which gives excellent response time for capturing images. They are also very small and ruggedly built. Personally, I wouldn't worry overly about the dust issue. Certainly there is a possibility of dust, but I think it's in the nature of these forums to highlight problems rather than give a good indication of the number of cameras that don't have issues.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
 

Joan

New member
HI Joan (and welcome)
One thing you should understand straight away is that you aren't going to get better image quality from any of these cameras than you are already getting from your E410. Mind you, maybe that isn't the point?

I keep thinking it'd be nice to have a small camera with a big zoom range . . .and then when I get them I'm fed up with the image quality.

I've not used an E410, but I use an E3 a lot, and I've had lots of other Oly dSLR's - I like the colour particularly, and I've always felt the image quality is pretty good - mind you, I have used the better lenses.

I think you're best bet is to nick one of Terry's M8's when she isn't looking!
Hi Jono,
I know you from DPR LTF ( does "joan55" ring a bell?) ... hung out there for a little while when I had the D-Lux 3.

Yes, I know the E410 has better overall IQ, and am fond of it in many ways, but in others it just doesn't seem to be "me." If I were to invest in the better lenses, I'd also add a lot of weight, which I really don't want to do. If I keep it at all, I'll probably just stick the new 25mm pancake lens on it almost permanently. Strange as it may sound, I find a sort of 'sterility' to the E410's output, although I do agree that the Oly colors are wonderful, plus it's a real bear to control the highlight clipping with it here in bright sunny Florida. If I want to fight with that, I might just as well do it with a small sensor cam, lol.

Thanks for your comments, and the welcome. :)
 
...
So, now I'm pondering the idea of buying either:
1) Used Digilux 2 (has a new sensor)
2) Ricoh GX-100
3) Leica V-Lux 1

Pros for the D2 are the LENS (love it), good EVF, clean files at ISO 100, sturdy build and high resale/collectible value Cons are "only" 5mp and blotchy noise at higher ISO's.
...
Get a Digilux 2 and forget the others....

Those 5 Mp´s are a lot in practical terms; except for when using the very best Nikkors, my Digilux 2 outshoots my 10 Mp D200 at ISO 100. A3 prints are a matter of course; sharp prints!

OK, I don´t like to use the Digilux 2 at ISO 400 at all, and preferrably only in RAW at ISO 200 (I use jpeg a lot at ISO 100, mainly for the write speed). But since the lens is at least 1 step faster than the others, and very good wide open, you can often get away with using 100 or 200 whery you would have to use 400 with the others.

I have the D200 with (among others) the Nikkor 17-55/2.8, the D-lux 3, and the Digilux 2. If I had to choose just one camera to keep, it would be the Digilux.

Don´t know it you saw this thread; there are lots of examples there:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1297
 

Joan

New member
Joan,

Welcome! Well, I have either had, or have all the cameras you're considering. I had the Digilux 2 and loved/hated it for all the reasons you mention. I currently have the V-Lux 1 and the GX100 (as well as the GRD II and the TZ3). Be aware that both the Digilux 2 and the V-Lux 1 are almost, if not as big as a regular DSLR. If you start adding complimentary lenses for wide angle then you may as well stick with a DSLR.

The GX100 is a great little camera (as is the GRD II) and worthy of trying out. I'd recommend that instead of the available EVF, however, that you get some Voigtlander dedicated viewfinders. They are MUCH more usable. I have the CV 28/35mm which also show the 24mm view, the 50mm and the 75mm.

Even though I have a pair of M8s, I often will just venture out with the GX100 and the GRD II, typically with the 21mm lens on the GRD II and the GX100 set at 50mm (with appropriate VF).

The charm of the Ricohs is that you can shoot RAW, and set them up for Snap mode which gives excellent response time for capturing images. They are also very small and ruggedly built. Personally, I wouldn't worry overly about the dust issue. Certainly there is a possibility of dust, but I think it's in the nature of these forums to highlight problems rather than give a good indication of the number of cameras that don't have issues.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Hi Simon,
I am very intrigued by the little GX-100, would very much like to try it if I won't have to send it in for periodic dust removal. Also like the idea of using the Voightlander viewfinders, although they do add up in price for a full set. (I have a rather limited budget, I'm afraid.) Since the kit including the EVF is reasonable, guess I'd see how I got on with it first. The advantage I see for using it (at least while I get to know the camera) is having the live histogram right there, right?

Thanks for sharing your opinion, helps a lot! :)

Joan
 

Joan

New member
Get a Digilux 2 and forget the others....

Those 5 Mp´s are a lot in practical terms; except for when using the very best Nikkors, my Digilux 2 outshoots my 10 Mp D200 at ISO 100. A3 prints are a matter of course; sharp prints!

OK, I don´t like to use the Digilux 2 at ISO 400 at all, and preferrably only in RAW at ISO 200 (I use jpeg a lot at ISO 100, mainly for the write speed). But since the lens is at least 1 step faster than the others, and very good wide open, you can often get away with using 100 or 200 whery you would have to use 400 with the others.

I have the D200 with (among others) the Nikkor 17-55/2.8, the D-lux 3, and the Digilux 2. If I had to choose just one camera to keep, it would be the Digilux.

Don´t know it you saw this thread; there are lots of examples there:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1297

Hi Per,

Truthfully, I have been itching to buy a D2 ever since I first saw one! Couldn't afford one at full price, but now a used one is in my price range, so it's VERY tempting. Love the shots you all have posted in that thread, they have that Leica "something" that I just love. Unless I win the lottery, I'll never be able to have an M8, so I see the D2 as the next best thing, and no lenses to swap. Glad to hear you believe in it so strongly.

OK, so far I have one vote for sticking with the E410, one for the GX-100, and now one for the D2. LOL ... this isn't getting any easier yet. :D

Joan
 

Joan

New member
Joan, at the risk of sounding like a persistent salesman (I´m not, and my own D2 is emphatically not for sale, at any price..), I would like to give another link to a D2 thread in the Leica forum:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...265-do-digilux-2-photos-have-distinctive.html

Lots of fabulous images there...
Thanks for that link, Per. I think I kind of want to be "sold" on the D2, have almost caved for one on several occasions and then chickened out because I was worried about having the sensor failure in a secondhand unit without a warranty. Now that I can get one with a new sensor, I think my only real worry has been overcome. It'll even fit perfectly in my new Domke bag .... :ROTFL:

Leaning ....
 

Joan

New member
I think you're best bet is to nick one of Terry's M8's when she isn't looking!
Hee hee ... missed this comment the first time around, Jono. Somehow I don't think Terry would be too happy with me if I nicked one of her M8's. She IS going to let me play with one when I go up to visit her in May though. CAN'T WAIT!! :):):):)
 

Terry

New member
LOL.... I didn't miss the "nick" comment on my read through. Very much looking forward to your visit and M8 play date. You know my thoughts on the Digilux2. I guess Leica has spoiled me as I had the fantastic fast lens on that camera and the primes for the M8 are outstanding. Working on lens choices for the Nikon has been interesting as fast = huge + heavy and smaller is really slow. The two or three extra stops you get on the Digilux2 can be very! handy. Anyway, I'm glad you decided to post here and perhaps I will be able to convince you to meet up at a workshop!!!!!
 
P

pcheywood

Guest
Or...........Just get the GX100, place some black tape over the Caplio legend, and place a red circular sticker in the appropriate position.

Paul. ;)
 
S

Sean_Reid

Guest
Or...........Just get the GX100, place some black tape over the Caplio legend, and place a red circular sticker in the appropriate position.

Paul. ;)
Perhaps, but they'll still be quite different cameras.
 

Joan

New member
LOL.... I didn't miss the "nick" comment on my read through. Very much looking forward to your visit and M8 play date. You know my thoughts on the Digilux2. I guess Leica has spoiled me as I had the fantastic fast lens on that camera and the primes for the M8 are outstanding. Working on lens choices for the Nikon has been interesting as fast = huge + heavy and smaller is really slow. The two or three extra stops you get on the Digilux2 can be very! handy. Anyway, I'm glad you decided to post here and perhaps I will be able to convince you to meet up at a workshop!!!!!
Hey Terry :)

Oh yeah, I *know* you will second the vote for a D2. And your great shots with it have done nothing to dissuade me. I'm so with you on the large lens thing. Same problem for the Oly. Although the lenses I'd like for the E410 are a bit smaller than their Nikon counterparts, they're still kinda hefty.

Will definitely be saving up to attend a workshop, I know I'd love it and learn a LOT!

Thanks, girl, and keep those M8's warm for my greedy little hands :ROTFL::ROTFL: !!
 

Joan

New member
Joan,

I don't think the GX100 has any more of a dust problem than any other fixed lens camera (and I test all kinds of cameras). If you loved the D-Lux, just glue a hotshoe on it (as many have done) and use it with optical finders.

You may have already read this but my review of the D2 is here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-digilux2-part1.shtml

Cheers,

Sean
Hi Sean,
Yes, I've read your excellent D2 review on LL, thank you! Helped me understand the pros and cons of that camera, so I really appreciate it. Also glad to hear you don't think the GX-100's dust problem is a big worry. I guess reading about it on several forums has spooked me too much. It wouldn't be the end of the world if it did happen, just a pain in the butt.

Not too sure if I could bring myself to glue a hotshoe on the D-Lux. I have seen a few pictures of that 'mod' but erm, um, it would be so ... un-lovely. :eek:: :eek::eek::D

J.
 

Joan

New member
Or...........Just get the GX100, place some black tape over the Caplio legend, and place a red circular sticker in the appropriate position.

Paul. ;)
LOL, Paul,

No, I'd be quite content to proudly let the "Caplio" remain unhidden. I like the innovative cameras Ricoh has come up with, no need to "Leica-size" 'em to make them desirable. ;)
 
M

Mitch Alland

Guest
Joan, reading through this thread I'm not sure why you don't like the "character" of your Olympus 410 shots or what you're really after. As I see it — and I don't know the D2 expect for what I've read in Sean's review and the general feel that it's not appropriate for high ISOs — it seems to me that you should decide what type of camera you want in terms of the size of the sensor and and the size of the camera because you're considering such different things: if you're after a small sensor camera for the way it "draws" or for it's small, "carry everywhere" size then by all means get the GX100 — although my own preference would be the GRD2 with the excellent 21 and 40mm EFOV converter lenses. On the other hand, if you;re happy with the size of the 410 and the larger sensor, then why not get new lenses for it like the Plympus 11-22mm, which I hear is excellent and the new Olympus 25mm pancake lens.

A street photo with a larger camera, the Nikon D300:





—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 
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A

asabet

Guest
I've had and enjoyed the D2, E-410, and GX100. If the E-410 kit lens lacks that "character" or "charm" from your standpoint, then I don't think you're likely to find it with the GX100 or V-LUX either. Don't get me wrong - both of those cameras have excellent lenses. However, I don't find their lens characteristics to be terribly unique. There is something special about the D2 lens if you can get around the downsides to that camera. If you value small size, lower cost, and faster response, then I'd recommend going the GX100 route. Although we are hearing perhaps more complaints of dust issues than normal, I wouldn't let that deter you if it is otherwise the best choice for your needs.
 
S

Sean_Reid

Guest
Hi Sean,
Yes, I've read your excellent D2 review on LL, thank you! Helped me understand the pros and cons of that camera, so I really appreciate it. Also glad to hear you don't think the GX-100's dust problem is a big worry. I guess reading about it on several forums has spooked me too much. It wouldn't be the end of the world if it did happen, just a pain in the butt.

Not too sure if I could bring myself to glue a hotshoe on the D-Lux. I have seen a few pictures of that 'mod' but erm, um, it would be so ... un-lovely. :eek:: :eek::eek::D

J.
Pretty is as pretty does. I'd glue one on in a heartbeat if I wanted to work with a D-Lux. Mitch has some good advice for you above.

Cheers,

Sean
 
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