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color vs. black and white

smokysun

New member
jorgen,
very, very nice examples. you've put your finger on one of biggest questions: how does meaning change, according to whether you're using color or b&w. in the color she seems more captured by work and it's a story about work (and maybe romance). in the b&w it seems more about personal revery, being alone in a crowd. this discussion is useful (to me) if it pinpoints the differences in effect on the viewer. true, we each have personal preferences as to process, but the final arbiter is not ourselves. that's why almost all the iconic photos have been made by professionals. how you get there is personal. what you end up with will hopefully not be only that.

wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp

ps. looked at the big new eggleston book again today. one key: he uses a subdued older processing - the dye-transfer print - and it puts his photos in the 50's. parr does something similar with his garishness, a way to escape the too-present nature of color.
 
J

JCdeR

Guest
Isn't it all just a matter of personal preference?

I would reckon one can discuss until the end of days but there is no academically sound end result.

Myself, I love B&W but only (mostly) the tri-x rodinal look, orange or red-filtered, dramatic and overpowering. The smooth stuff looks OK but wouldn't hang it on my wall, others have other opinions.
 
J

JCdeR

Guest
Btw. I like this forum, it actually discusses the end result as opposed to the technical possibilities and benchmarks/comparisons of the hardware. Compared to some forums I visit, won't mention any names (LUF!) this is very refreshing, friendly and positive of character. Photography is about the end result (the actual image) and possibilities thereof rather than spreadsheet analyses.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Well, Stieglitz resolved that issue with Gallery 291 and that was many years before 40 years ago....

Let's face it, photographer's make photographs for other photographers......

don
That only shows how long time it takes sometimes, in this case from being accepted in New York in 1905 to Oslo in 1971.

As for photographers making... some photographers do, and other photographers often react differently to an image compared to those who are not photographers. But then, some of the pixel peepers at dpreview react differently ("Your image wasn't taken with a Canon/Nikon/Pentax/Sony... , so it can't be good.") to photos than the rather civilised crowd at this forum.

I mostly take photos for myself, and I'm endlessly surprised whenever somebody else enjoys looking at it.
 
W

wbrandsma

Guest
I mostly take photos for myself, and I'm endlessly surprised whenever somebody else enjoys looking at it.
I am on your site Jorgen. B&W is for me a personal expression. It has not to do with how I want to see things, but more how I feel about it, how I think. Nothing after the image was taken.
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
Art and the making of it seems to inflame passions.
It is funny, when I load up my MP with a roll of B&W I hunt for B&W images.
On the other hand color seems to pour out when I shoot with my digital cameras. For me it is more of a subject thing than a tool thing, but the tools influence the artist. Form, contrast, and texture seems to be the stuff the my B&Ws are made of. They tend to be more abstract and less literal. With some cameras like the M8, one can set them to make B&W preview jpegs. I find that helps me with re-creating the B&W experience and grounds me a bit better. With the chimping habit being well established with my use of lcd-backed cameras it helps with the correlation of the pre-visualized shot and the instantaneous feedback.
-bob
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Art and the making of it seems to inflame passions.
It is funny, when I load up my MP with a roll of B&W I hunt for B&W images.
I do that too when I shoot film too, like this week with the OM-3. With digital, the process tends to become a bit more confused.
 

smokysun

New member
either b&w or color can be a relief, depending on circumstances. eastern europe and russia around the fall of the berlin wall included a very drab atmosphere. color must have been craved. whereas we're so bombarded with it, a b&w photo might be a bit of peace, like stepping for a moment into a church on manhattan.

wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp

"The world isn't a question to be answered, rather a mystery to be lived."
 

Will

New member
either b&w or color can be a relief, depending on circumstances. eastern europe and russia around the fall of the berlin wall included a very drab atmosphere. color must have been craved. whereas we're so bombarded with it, a b&w photo might be a bit of peace, like stepping for a moment into a church on manhattan.

wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp

"The world isn't a question to be answered, rather a mystery to be lived."
That makes a lot of sense.
 
N

nei1

Guest
The more I think of this and in the context it is being argued I realise that this is solely a digital discussion and in fact about post processing and the massive choices that are to be made.
A sugestion might be to tone a black and white print various colours and vote on the emotional responseto each.
 
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Lili

New member
Several excellent points have been raised here, the latest being Niel's about much of this being 'digital' question. It is true that digital allows the luxury to actually see the results of changes during PP. This allows one to experiment more. As Ansel said, to paraphrase him, the image the image has become the performance.
 
N

nei1

Guest
And Lili if I may paraphrase yours, photoshop is the new camera ,any decisions can now be delayed until after the creative process(is that possible?)No its not possible,that leaves photoshop as the creative act.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
And Lili if I may paraphrase yours, photoshop is the new camera ,any decisions can now be delayed until after the creative process(is that possible?)No its not possible,that leaves photoshop as the creative act.
Photoshop has been part of the creative process as long as Photoshop has existed, and long before digital cameras were commonplace. Is it really interesting if the colour/b&w question relates to digital photography or not? The choice exists. If there was a camera that would give us the same choice with film, and I believe that would be technically possible, although somewhat impractical, the principle would be the same.

One of the nice things about digital photography is that we do have the choice. It makes it less critical to make the right decision when taking the photo, but that's not the only thing that is easier using a digital camera. It's just the nature of the beast.

Many mediocre photographers are able to make their photos shine with the help of Photoshop. Does that make them inferior as artists? I don't know, and in the real world, it doesn't matter. Most people, and now I mean non-photographers, only care about the end result, and not if you made the right choice during a fraction of a second, somewhere out in the jungles of Borneo, with mosquitos biting and a crocodile chewing your right foot while you hide for the head-hunters who prepare for their final, devastating attack.

The world just isn't the same anymore, but there's still excitement to be found :)
 

Streetshooter

Subscriber Member
jSo theres at least 2 ways to see things...
post visualization, PS etc and pre visualization...
I do pre....I think and compose on terms of b&w.

It comes from my film daze....I appreciate the luxury
and choice of post.....but I still feel b&w deep down.

At today's funeral I ran the images in color because
that's what is needed. My edit will be in b&w but it's nice to
have a choice. Digital does that very well.....

don
 
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smokysun

New member
last nite i did a theater photoshoot:

www.pbase.com/wwp/tommy

when i got home, i had to decide whether b&w worked best, or color. for the show, color did. (5d with the 50 1.4)

another show:

www.pbase.com/wwp/blue

i shot with the funky little underestimated polaroid x530 with a foveon sensor. at a show a couple years ago i blew a dozen of these up into large 12x18 prints and they were the favorite of many people out of three hundred mostly in color.

i agree, how lucky we are to live with the options. alas, i like an audience!

wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp
 
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N

nei1

Guest
The digital photographer has a much harder time with this decision,it has to be made each and every time a photo is to be produced.In my case I load up a film and as Bob says the mind set goes with whatever is in the camera.This is the same for example with a high speed film or with a low speed film,a particular kind of image is already being visualized.With digital everything is available at the same time,when presented with a situation where choices are posssibble it must be difficult to dial in what you want after having decided what you want and then not miss what you wanted in the first place!
This is why I mentioned before the draw of a j peg only camera which would have its own set ,fixed,character that would give me my kodachrome or my tri x or my technical pan and stillgive me all the undoubted benefits of digital such as speed,ease of processsing and its undoubted economics and greeness...................Neil.
I again suggest the fuji s5 sensor with its wide digital range could be used in such a camera.
 
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