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DP1 Boomerang

trisberg

New member
David,

I'm trying to understand what you are actually saying here. Are you saying that the DP1 is such a bad camera that not only you, but any one else using it, wouldn't get any decent pictures from it? Or are you simply stating that you didn't get a long with the camera and didn't get a single picture that you liked from shooting with it? It's not entirely clear from your earlier posts.

-Thomas
 
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ddk

Guest
Thomas,

I was stating my case with the camera and wondering if the OP had any dp1 images that he would consider keepers. I also mentioned about a trend that I see with many posters of dp1 images, including the OP that a large no. are pp'd with Nik or equivalent plug-ins, its something to think about. I'm sure that the dp1 suits a number of people's shooting styles and subject matter out there and vice versa as seen by OP's remarks on the history of his camera. I offered my points to the OP because of what I see as his hesitance in dealing with the camera.

(Edit) PS, I'm not making any value judgment on the use of plugins, just noticing a trend...
 
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simonclivehughes

Active member
We can either learn from, agree/disagree with or ignore a post...
David,

I can't recall a single DP1 thread that you yourself have ignored. Rather, you launch into your bad experience story yet again. The point is that it's not conducive to productive discussion about a camera that the rest of us "fanboys" (as you have labeled anyone who has had good experiences with the DP1) have learned to cope with and use productively. I guess it's possible that our good experiences seem to rub you the wrong way somehow, but I just don't see the point of your insistent posts.

WRT using PP on DP1 images, again, I don't see your point. I PP every image to some extent or another, it's just part of the workflow. I also have no issue with using Nik (or any other PP software) to help bring out what I see in an image, regardless of the camera that produced the original file. Ever seen Ansel Adams' negs as opposed to the final print? Each of us will have a different set of expectations WRT our images and how we perceive the end product. That's all part of the fun and mystery of photography, made even more accessible by digital technology.

So you didn't have a good experience with the DP1, we all know that... let's all move on. Please also realize that no one is slinging mud at you, just asking for a little tolerance. No slight is intended.

Cheers,
 
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ddk

Guest
David,

I can't recall a single DP1 thread that you yourself have ignored. Rather, you launch into your bad experience story yet again.
Simon, its my prerogative, to respond to a post! Its quite presumptuous to even think that you have the right to tell me or anyone for that matter not to respond to someone else's post. I could tell you the same about cheering for this camera every time that there's a negative post. You do realize that this was a negative post? Its about a camera that gets passed around because nobody wants it, even for free!

The point is that it's not conducive to productive discussion about a camera that the rest of us "fanboys" (as you have labeled anyone who has had good experiences with the DP1) have learned to cope with and use productively.
If the shoe fits! And no I haven't labelled anyone for their passion just the ones who have no tolerance for another pov, and I'm hoping that by a productive discussion you don't just mean agreeing with you, right?

I guess it's possible that our good experiences seem to rub you the wrong way somehow, but I just don't see the point of your insistent posts.
I could ask you the same about your insistent comments on the same topic, please don't make this kind of remarks, it only degrades the conversation!

My post wasn't aimed at you, its for the benefit of those who are either on the fence or thinking about taking the plunge. There are things that some of us find seriously wrong with these cameras and there are people visiting sites such as this to collect information. You might not think so but I feel that my negative comments have value for them. My negative responses have mostly been in threads that are either open to discussion or negative to begin with, like this one and the one of last week which was a very negative review, are you going to censor everyone?

WRT using PP on DP1 images, again, I don't see your point. I PP every image to some extent or another, it's just part of the workflow. I also have no issue with using Nik (or any other PP software) to help bring out what I see in an image, regardless of the camera that produced the original file. Ever seen Ansel Adams' negs as opposed to the final print? Each of us will have a different set of expectations WRT our images and how we perceive the end product. That's all part of the fun and mystery of photography, made even more accessible by digital technology.
Its alright if you don't get my point. For the record, I have no issues with what people do or don't do with their images, I wasn't judging them, nor am I speaking from a purist pov, which I'm definitely not, nor are many of the photographers who's works I admire. Just sharing an observation with OP.

So you didn't have a good experience with the DP1, we all know that... let's all move on. Please also realize that no one is slinging mud at you, just asking for a little tolerance. No slight is intended.

Cheers,
You're asking me for tolerance? I have no problems with your posts is it not me that you don't tolerate? and if by moving on you mean shutting up, its not going to happen when there are others that might benefit from a different experience. But if your point is moving on from the exchanges of today, its all forgotten.

Cheers to you too.
 

gallery7

New member
Yes, not an easy camera to like, we feel the same among my group of friends and there's even a DP2 making the rounds now, lets see how long you're going to put up with it this time around...

Lets forget about the poor battery life and the camera's ergonomic shortcomings for now and lets concentrate on the image side and if you'll end up getting something that you'll like without heavy pp or any that you might even want to print. This is where I found the Sigma most challenging, I never got an image that I liked, and yes I do blame the DP1, since I never felt this way with any other camera that I own/owned. Good or bad I always managed to get the image that I was after. Looking at what's posted around I see that others are facing the same issue. Both your new and old and new posts confirm my point. Don't get me wrong I'm no purist and love the digital age but no Nik or equivalent plug-in will fix an image that's lacking...

The fanboys aren't going to like to hear it but a camera is a tool and a good one helps you accomplish your objective but a bad one like the dp1 is just going to hinder and burden you...
hmmm, i have to contest the "bad one" part despite agreeing with what you have to say in principle. i have managed to produce some work i am very fond of with the dp1. i find it an exceptional scale focus documentary camera that has helped me accomplish what i set out to do. i suppose it's just a matter of opinion really, not the camera itself.
 
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ddk

Guest
hmmm, i have to contest the "bad one" part despite agreeing with what you have to say in principle. i have managed to produce some work i am very fond of with the dp1. i find it an exceptional scale focus documentary camera that has helped me accomplish what i set out to do. i suppose it's just a matter of opinion really, not the camera itself.
I've seen some of your images, I don't know from which camera but I liked them a lot. If you could get it to sing for you great, I'm among the group who didn't...:thumbup:
 

Scott G

New member
Holy crap, what is wrong with you people? It's a camera for crying out loud! Like it or love, just please stop the public peeing contests.

You do realize that this was a negative post? Its about a camera that gets passed around because nobody wants it, even for free!
David, wrong. Go back and read my original post. I said I was going to stop whining about the camera's ergonomics, and start using it. How is that negative?? Get over yourself and let's move on.

Note to self: NEVER post a DP1 image again :wtf:
 
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ddk

Guest
Holy crap, what is wrong with you people? It's a camera for crying out loud! Like it or love, just please stop the public peeing contests.

David, wrong. Go back and read my original post. I said I was going to stop whining about the camera's ergonomics, and start using it. How is that negative??
The title!

Note to self: NEVER post a DP1 image again :wtf:
Ignore us, its not about your post, this goes back a bit!
 

gallery7

New member
maybe "opinion" was the wrong word... intended use? if i was to judge it beyond being a great, silent documentary tool it wouldn't fair too well. the battery life is maddening. it quite often just freezes up on me. in hot, humid weather it's next to impossible to hold on to. autofocus? forget about it.

in the right situations, and i suppose in the right hands it can sing a mighty sweet tune though. the REAL reason i use one, and it is very, very important to me, is that it is the best compact i have used for retaining as much highlight detail as possible. i often need to work quickly and discreetly and i need a camera that can help in that department. it really is the dp1's saving grace in my humble opinion.

thank you for the kind words david. i am partial to your pbase stuff as well.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Hmmm... I think I need to try this camera, so I can participate in the mudslinging too :ROTFL: Unfortunately, the last time I saw it for sale here, it was at a price higher than what I paid for my S5 :(

But honestly, I think I understand both sentiments. Mostly, working with a tool that is flawed in too many ways, is frustrating and unsatisfactory. On the other side, if one finds a side of that tool that appeals to ones senses, maybe something totally offbeat and of only limited practical use, that may be enough to create a fascination, and affection even, for the tool, and to make one defend it whatever the general, informed opinion is. And then, if it's possible to achieve outstanding results from the dysfunctional thing now and then, it's all the more satisfying :thumbup:

But then, I used to drive Citroëns for many years, the favourites being the AK400 (the 2CV van, mine had a colour that made my friends call it "Little Urine") and the CX GTI with an interior that looked like a nightclub from the next century :toocool:
 
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ddk

Guest
Hmmm... I think I need to try this camera, so I can participate in the mudslinging too :ROTFL: Unfortunately, the last time I saw it for sale here, it was at a price higher than what I paid for my S5 :(

But honestly, I think I understand both sentiments. Mostly, working with a tool that is flawed in too many ways, is frustrating and unsatisfactory. On the other side, if one finds a side of that tool that appeals to ones senses, maybe something totally offbeat and of only limited practical use, that may be enough to create a fascination, and affection even, for the tool, and to make one defend it whatever the general, informed opinion is. And then, if it's possible to achieve outstanding results from the dysfunctional thing now and then, it's all the more satisfying :thumbup:

But then, I used to drive Citroëns for many years, the favourites being the AK400 (the 2CV van, mine had a colour that made my friends call it "Little Urine") and the CX GTI with an interior that looked like a nightclub from the next century :toocool:
You missed the party Jorgen, the mud slinging started on a personal comments and then got side tracked, not gear related...
 

simonclivehughes

Active member
Mostly, working with a tool that is flawed in too many ways, is frustrating and unsatisfactory. ... And then, if it's possible to achieve outstanding results from the dysfunctional thing now and then, it's all the more satisfying.
Jorgen,

Exactly... the DP1 is a real dog's breakfast of a design. Great idea, flawed execution, but it is possible to get some exceptionally nice images for a camera of its size. I use mine almost exclusively in MF, set to hyperfocal, use an external VF and work as slowly as needed for the card-write. Works for me, but most certainly not for everyone.

As much as I love/hate the DP1, I declined getting the DP2 with many of the very same flaws.

Cheers,
 

smokysun

New member
usually i avoid these ego-driven arguments like the plague (migrated from the leica forum for that reason), however i'm enjoying this one cause it's making me think and really examine what works for me.

in terms of vanity (which is what this thread seems to be about), only three cameras i've had have gotten extraordinary compliments from other photographers, some of them beautiful women: the leica digilux-2, the leica d-lux 1, and the dp1 with the voightlander viewfinder.

those who say this doesn't matter to them are probably pros!

tho some turn up their noses at the dp reviews, i find them very informative, if not final. in terms of image quality they are very conservative. only a 1ds III and d3x get 9.5. (they've never given a 10, as far as i know.)

canon g10 - 8.0

panasonic lx3 - 8.5

sigma dp1 - 9.0

that 9 is the highest they've ever given a small sensor camera.

and they rated the lx3 best overall, the g10 runnerup, and the dp1 'barely recommended'

thinking about my own experience, i loved wearing the dp1, i felt it to be solid, the files wonderful.

yet i'm probably going to trade it for a d-lux 4. why? zoom. fast write raw (twice as fast as the dp1). smaller. for the most part i use a compact as a diary and the fast lens 2.0 probably big help. why not the lx3? it simply looks clunky to me!

vanity does have a place. next time a lovely lady photographer compliments me, i'm asking her on a photo-shoot.

so there.

wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp
 

Terry

New member
usually i avoid these ego-driven arguments like the plague (migrated from the leica forum for that reason), however i'm enjoying this one cause it's making me think and really examine what works for me.

in terms of vanity (which is what this thread seems to be about), only three cameras i've had have gotten extraordinary compliments from other photographers, some of them beautiful women: the leica digilux-2, the leica d-lux 1, and the dp1 with the voightlander viewfinder.

those who say this doesn't matter to them are probably pros!

tho some turn up their noses at the dp reviews, i find them very informative, if not final. in terms of image quality they are very conservative. only a 1ds III and d3x get 9.5. (they've never given a 10, as far as i know.)

canon g10 - 8.0

panasonic lx3 - 8.5

sigma dp1 - 9.0

that 9 is the highest they've ever given a small sensor camera.

and they rated the lx3 best overall, the g10 runnerup, and the dp1 'barely recommended'

thinking about my own experience, i loved wearing the dp1, i felt it to be solid, the files wonderful.

yet i'm probably going to trade it for a d-lux 4. why? zoom. fast write raw (twice as fast as the dp1). smaller. for the most part i use a compact as a diary and the fast lens 2.0 probably big help. why not the lx3? it simply looks clunky to me!

vanity does have a place. next time a lovely lady photographer compliments me, i'm asking her on a photo-shoot.

so there.

wayne
www.pbase.com/wwp
Wow, should have opened a bottle of wine to read through this thread. Obviously the large sensor was a draw for the DP1/DP2, curious as to why you aren't considering the E-P1. Size? Lenses? Price?
 

Lili

New member
IMHO the DP-1 is very like a folding medium format camera such as a Zeiss Super Ikonta.
Very compact, with the best possible image quality in the tiniest package possible. Everything else is subordinated to that mission. Quirky controls and sometimes slow operation aside; nothing else gives such a big sensor in such a compact camera.
Some will be able to make this camera sing (Gee Don, does that loan offer still stand?), others with be put off by the compromise.
The fact that it engenders such debate tells just how much impact the design has had!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Lets change the direction this thread is heading. Let me say this once, this is not DPR. Read the rules, this is a no insult mudslinging forum. Let's move forward folks.
 

smokysun

New member
thanks for the tip on the e-p1. i didn't even know about it. here's a preview:

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/olympusep1/

the price seems right. and the features quite something. here's another preview:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/digitalcameras/?p=862

size makes it not a real compact, at least with the zoom lens. and that lens starts slow: 3.5. in my experience you really need 2.0 in lowlight to make a camera completely usable. and the lcd has half the pixels it should have.

and i'm not sure i want to get into the business of buying more lenses!

however, this is definitely an advance.

ps. here's a review that absolutely dishes the d-lux 4!!!

http://kenrockwell.com/leica/d-lux-4.htm
 
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