Sigma DP1 vs Oly E420 vs GRD II

[Maggie O]

What is the aspect ratio of the Pentax? The 4x3 frame of the Olympus is a deal-breaker for me.

 

[Lili]

What is the aspect ratio of the Pentax? The 4x3 frame of the Olympus is a deal-breaker for me.

The Pentax DSLR's are all 3:2, like 35mm frame Maggie

 

[nostatic]

3x2. Standard dslr. The K20d seems like a monster cam: 14.6mp APC sensor, fits all legacy Pentax glass, image stabilization in the body, full weather sealing, built-in sensor cleaner, up to iso 6400, etc. $1299 for the body. Significantly cheaper than the D300 or E3. Downside is "legendary" Pentax AF (which is weak in low light), but they seem to have addressed most of the niggles people had with the K10d (especially jpg engine).

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012311pentaxk20d.asp

 

[gromitspapa]

Market price on the D300 is only about $430 more than the K20d, and it outperforms the former $4,500 flagship D2Xs in every way (except pro-body feel). CMOS sensor, outstanding LED, 6-8fps, 14-bit option, best flash system, and the best AF on the market (including 3D color tracking) makes for a professional camera in most respects. Been on the market now long enough to prove itself solid and reliable, with stellar IQ. Big selling point for me is the ability to use Capture NX on the RAW files with its U-Point tool and optional Nik filter set.

 

[Player]

gromitspapa, I'm with you on the Nikon boat. I love my D200, and I now think of my D80 as an E420 killer. I'll probably skip a generation though and get a "D400."

 

[nostatic]

The good Nikkor lenses are wicked expensive though. I love the idea that you can buy a used Pentax SMC A 50/1.4 for about $150 and get great glass.

 

[7ian7]

I guess I can chip in here - having loads of both D200 / D2x / K14n / E3 / E510 images - for me the 4/3 images are less good at high ISO, but I think they always have better colour. But, for the sake of your argument, and in your words, 4/3 files are only slightly 'worse' than higher end dSLR files (although many would bicker about that). They are definitely much 'better' than ricoh files (please note the quote marks!). Which is what you'd expect, the sensors being so much larger.

Hey Jono, thanks for your response, I only caught it now. Definitely quotes around the superlatives; I know sensor drawing quality is at least on some level subjective. Though I might add this is an eye-opening link: <http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d3/h3d-1.htm> Unfortunately, the Hasselblad isn't exactly pocketable.

Nostatic/Player, I've shot with the D3 and D300 and they're both great, but the D300 gets noisy beyond 400asa, though it's still kind of appealing. The D3 is fully usable at 6400. It's wild. It's silly, but I also wish the D300 had the in-camera 4/5 crop. That's a nice shape, not far off from our 4/3 ratio.

I hope Nikon will create a 25 (50equiv) pancake lens for the D300 and a 50mm pancake for the bigger but full frame D3. Now that they're rocking it, I think an expanded lens line is imminent.

 

[gromitspapa]

The good Nikkor lenses are wicked expensive though. I love the idea that you can buy a used Pentax SMC A 50/1.4 for about $150 and get great glass.

You could say the same thing about Olympus lenses, although you get more "bang for the buck" with the 2x crop factor. A Nikkor 50mm 1.4 is an excellent lens at around $270 brand new.

 

[7ian7]

You could say the same thing about Olympus lenses, although you get more "bang for the buck" with the 2x crop factor. A Nikkor 50mm 1.4 is an excellent lens at around $270 brand new.

True; and then there's all the incredible and cheap vintage (and arguably nicer) Nikon glass that works on these cameras ... including a sweet pancake 50!

 

[Sean_Reid]

Hi there
I thought it was worth posting this here, as so many of us are preoccupied with small cameras (and the DP1 doesn't have a small sensor).
I thought the E420 announcement was interesting, here is a comparison of sizes and weights:

Olympus 420: 125 X 53 X 91 380 gm
Sigma DP1: 113 X 50 X 59 250 gm
Ricoh GX100: 112 X 25 X 58 260 gm
Ricoh GRD 1: 107 x 25 x 58 200 gm
Leica D-Lux3: 106 x 26 x 56 220 gm

The Olympus will be slightly bigger with the 50mm f2.8 pancake lens (but less than 10mm).

Of course, it has the advantage that at other times one can put on the excellent Olympus 14-42 zoom.

Food for thought - here are a couple of links:

http://fourthirds-user.com/2008/03/the_new_olympus_e420_dslr_and_25mm_pancake_lens_examined.php

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0803/08030501olympuse420.asp

Sorry if this is the wrong place, but I thought it would be of interest to those looking for a pocket camera with an optical viewfinder, I think the Olympus certainly qualifies.

Thanks for that post Jono. A good set of pancake lenses is just what 4/3 needs to help fulfill its promise of being a compact format.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

The E420 does look interesting — of course if I got it I'd have to destroy it's files to get the effect I want <g>. Rather than the 25mm lens that gives an EFL of 50mm I would have preferred an EFL of 40-42mm, as I have really started to like the 40mm EFL of the Ricoh tele-converter of the GRD/GRD2. And I'd want 21 and 28mm EFL lenses, but I gather there are no small 4/3 lenses if these EFLs, are there?

I must say that I'm much more attracted by the idea of the E4120 than by the DP1, and wonder whether this is partly because I feel Olympus has always made better lenses that in the pass.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

That 40 mm EFOV has always been great for me as well. I'd love to see a 20 mm 4/3 pancake lens.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

Holy cow, I read that part about the new E410 this morning, before work, but didn't see the part about the new 25 mm lens. That is so cool. After what, about eight years of affordable DSLR's, someone finally comes out with a lens that really makes sense, for street photography. I know Pentax had a couple pancakes, but they were still sort of odd ball focal lengths. This has got to be the package I've been waiting for. Now, if they can just add a 14 2.8 to go along with it. Good going Olympus! Anyone hear of a release date for the lens?

The focal lengths may seem strange but Pentax has definitely been the leader in pancake lenses for DSLRs. Of course, there are many pancakes for DRFs.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

While there have been a number of posts on a number of sites to the effect that the E-420/ 25 pancake combo eliminates the need for the DP1, I don't see it that way.

We may want to get a bit of hands-on experience with both cameras before we make any calls.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

Sadly, part of the DSLR thing is just legitimacy. When I'm shooting for other people (ie work), if I pull out the Leica I'm perceived as being an "amateur" and treated as such.

Wow, I've never had that experience at all when doing pro work with Leicas.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

What is the aspect ratio of the Pentax? The 4x3 frame of the Olympus is a deal-breaker for me.

3:2, see my review

Cheers,

Sean

 

[Sean_Reid]

For people who like compact, though not pocketable, cameras, there's also the option of shooting an Epson R-D1 with Pancake lenses.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[nostatic]

Wow, I've never had that experience at all when doing pro work with Leicas.

Cheers,

Sean

Well, a D Lux-3 isn't quite a "real" Leica, if ya know what I mean...

 

[Maggie O]

3:2, see my review

Cheers,

Sean

Oh, I read your review, but I was being lazy and forgetful, Sean!

 

[thomasl.se]

That 40 mm EFOV has always been great for me as well. I'd love to see a 20 mm 4/3 pancake lens.

Cheers,

Sean

Always is two weeks for me, but the GRD-40mm clicked instantly.

The form factor of this unit is in the E420 ballpark, whereas (living in a jacket-friendly climate zone) I'm comparing the size of the DP1 to the unfitted GRD rather than to the E420; my greatest anticipation yet with '08-releases is for the DP1-40mm.

Thomas

 

[Hypnohare]

As much as the love the GR2, I would like to have the option of sometimes using a larger sensor in order to reduce the depth of field (albeit in a compact camera).

I am certain that pretty soon we will get the reviews on the DP1 and the E420 with the new pancake lens. That said, would anyone care to hazard a guess as to which camera would be better in terms of "bokeh"?

From what I understand the new Olympus lens is faster than the Sigma lens, but the Olympus sensor is slightly smaller than the Sigma (or do I have this all wrong?).

Would the Olympus or Sigma be better for shallow depth of field shots or would they be similar in performance?