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The GRD2 — An Appreciation

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Mitch Alland

Guest
Mitch, your edit as of 730pm Friday NYC-time looks fantastic.

Great additions. A fully-realized and deep picture of your experience, and simultaneously, of life for your subjects in Bangkok.

I'm not convinced this is the final sequencing, but that's ... besides the point.

Also, there are a small handful where the post-processing shows — a few faces where dodging reaches a cloudy place that could be corrected with a quick blast of contrast to bring back the blacks. You'll be happier getting those few to match the standard you've set in the rest of the images.

But that's nitpicking, too. This is a strong, personal collection of work that deserves an audience.

I hope this inspiring edit inspires you to kind of run around the bases one more time — shoot a bunch more, especially if you want nothing more than to be done, and especially especially if think you are.

There's a fine book here already; what a freeing place from which to dig out a handful more pictures.

Kudos!
Ian, although we've now corresponded on your posting by Personal Mail, I thought I should also respond here so other people can follow the conversation. First, thank you for your reaction, which I value highly having seen your own fantastic pictures.

I see what you mean about the monk picture: the funny thing is that every time I saw this photograph I had a subliminal feeling that it was too evenly gray — I now have increased the contrast and, having a bit of almost highlight on his forehead and a bit of almost black on his cheek, as well as a some more contrast in the background as well, improves it. Interesting, how a basically small change in contrast can make a big improvement, no different from the darkroom. Thanks for the tip: I'll have to go through the rest of the pictures from this point of view.

On adding more pictures, I'm still in the mood to take some more pictures for some of the themes of the book; and therefe am likely to continue doing so. After adding some more I may end up deleting a few of the current ones.

—Mitch/Huanhin
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 
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7ian7

Guest
Nice, Mitch. Thank you.

For anyone wondering, the last thing I meant to do was criticize Mitch.

In the past when I've worked on big collections of images, over the course of solving problematic aspects of individual pictures, I've sometimes lost elements of the feel of the overall body of work that would help a particular image sit better in context with the others.

The "problems" may be worth solving — often to retain some piece of information that is under or overexposed — but not at the expense of having the correction stand out or the image appear softer than the others. For me, it sometimes requires having it pointed out by one of my eagle-eyed overly-competitive photographer friends who find it impossible to utter a compliment (thanks guys!) before I recognize or face up to what I kinda already know ... which is that if I go back to some of these tough ones, I can often do them a bit more justice.

The other thing is, changing tools along the way is impacting the look and feel of Mitch's pictures as well, so decisions can (should?) be made about the importance of continuity in that regard.

Getting this many images into presentable form is a big accomplishment in itself. I can't remember if it's here or via PM's, but I think (hope) I am heaping a lot of unabashed praise in Mitch's direction. I still think that's worth more than any of the technical stuff.
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
Ian, criticism is no problem: what you said was very helpful in that it's made me see the need to tweak a few of the pictures and has also made me realise, as stated in my last posting, that even a minor tweak can make a big difference in the impact of a photograph.

Your comments also raise several interesting issues for a large project like a book. One is consistency of style over a long period — this project has been going on for 2-1/2 years — during which the photographer may find that the visual interest, the look that he likes, may change or evolve or that he changes the equipment that he uses. The latter may happen more now in the digital age but was also a factor earlier as, even a photographer kept on shooting with the same camera, he might have acquired lenses that drew differently, or started using different types of film with different developers. The question really comes to what constitutes "a style" or how much variety in appearance a style can bear and still remain a style. That, it seems to me, depends on the nature of the style itself: a book by John Sexton would have a more narrow stylistic range than a book by Moriyama Daido, whose style I would call expressionist. In some of Moriyama's books there is a wide variety of look, some of the pictures having huge grain, possibly being a crop from a small proportion of the negative, while others have fine grain.

In what what I have been trying to do — expressive prints for a statement involving a dark look that portrays life in a huge, chaotic tropical city — I've been increasingly trying to shoot in a "loose", fluid style because I feel an "exquisite" look with beautiful light and fine tonal gradations simply would not be expressive enough for what I wanted to express; with such a style I feel that a wide variety of look is possible and still be a style. For example in the following picture, posted in another thread, I have intentionally blown out the highlights around the woman and let the background go to very high contrast, even though the raw file did not have blown highlights, because I wanted to express the heat and harsh light of the city around midday:





—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 

ecliffordsmith

New member
Hi Mitch,

I think the image above is very strong. Especially when taken in context of your demonstrating the hardships of daily life in the city. The traffic, building works, people and dog all combine to show a hectic place.
 

nostatic

New member
The temporal aspect of the book is interesting. Art is never created (or consumed) in a vacuum, and I find that the best work will speak to me in different ways over time. Of course the creation process is rife with choices...usually way too many.

For my project I'm cheating and going chronologically with the text for the first pass. I may match images from roughly the same time, if nothing else, to do the personal experiment of seeing if word and image correlate (egad, the scientist in me creeps out).

I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to walk through your images yet (this pesky day job), but perhaps the evolution can be used to your advantage? It is one way of sequencing things, although it might not make visual sense. Then again, does it have to make sense?

A friend of mine has an interesting way to listen to music. He has a large itunes library, and he'll do a search for a common word like "house" or "love" or "rain", and then itunes will pull all the songs matching that metadata. And there is the playlist. Depending how diverse the metadata is, the playlist actually will be more eclectic than one might think, as it is looking at more than song titles.

The analogy here is that perhaps instead of thinking sequences, you think about the meta data around the image. Maybe it is time, place, subject, object. For instance everything with a street sign. Or everyone wearing white shirts. Or white shoes. It is an old social scientist trick to try and find patterns and overlaps.

I don't know...I'm just riffing. I can't seem to find a spare moment to sit down and hammer on my stuff, so I wax philosophic on the interwebs. The bottom line is that your images are quite potent, and I think it will work with any number of sequences and approaches. They are strong enough to stand on their own.
 

sizifo

New member
I do this all the time. Label the images with various crazy metadata, and then create smart albums. Lucky thing Aperture works like Itunes in this respect. I've only done it for fun, but can imagine this to be useful in a large project.

Not exactly on topic, but I got the 40 mm adapter inspired by Mitch's photos. It is great, but it does flare an awful lot. Flare is visible on the screen, but only clearly in color, and avoiding it does add an extra unwanted ingredient to taking photos. Admittedly, in B&W it doesn't cause that much of a problem, but still, it's stronger than I expected

Mitch, also got a Moriyama Daido retrospective inspired by your advertisements, for way too much money. But it's awesome stuff.
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
Ed, thanks — I see this picture the same way you do.

Nostatic and Sizifo, my sequences are not chronological but relate to a type of narrative that is, on the one hand, based on the general themes of each of the four chapters, and on the other hand, within the chapters, based on a cyclical approach to what is in the other chapters: this description is not going to make sense unless you look carefully at the book. Of course, the sequences are also based on the visual relationships and echos of the images to each other.

Looking and labeling metadata does not help with this type of sequencing approach: in structuring this you just have to look at the pictures and see what resonates with you for inclusion in the book and how one picture relates to the whole; not something that the computer can do for you, however you label your metadata. And the photographs have to be able to stand on their own: if they are not good enough to stand on their own they shouldn't be in the book.

Sizifo, on the 40mm tele-conveter, althogh it is subject to flare, I don't find the flare that frequent and when it has been there it's been in pictures in which I would anyway would introduce vignetting in post-processing in order to bring out the subject, which is why the flare hasn't bothered me.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 
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DaveSee

New member
While this thread has drifted, it's been interesting... especially for Mitch's new perspective on the GRD2; that is, it's still the photog, not the gear.

An ardent promoter of the GRD through his works, I still feel he can get the shot from the "First Version" gear, regardless the "New Love" he's found... an image maker, and that's key.

Having used a few Small Sensor rigs, but mostly film until recently(and varied rangefinders, including Oly XA), I too am well pleased with this GRD2... not only for the pics, but that I've taken a few tumbles while BC/Piste skiing and it comes up with a smile bigger than mine! Not for the falls, but I'd take this kit in the Backcountry well before others: great image capability, and easy to use with gloves(if needs must)... yes, that power button LED helps ;)

Best of all, but taking time to adjust to, is the size... as large as most mobile phones, but the pics!

rgds,
Dave
 

sizifo

New member
I'll attempt one, hopefully constructive critique, about the collection for the book. Let me first say that I am more than impressed by your project as a whole.

Given that title is "Bangkok Hysteria", a minority of the photos don't seem to fit. Infact, for me they don't fit whatever the name of the collection. By these I mean some of the portraits of the people that you seem to know (e.g. sitting across from you on the table), the leaves, some of the nudes. In the sense that a lot of the photos give me an impression of the city, while the ones I'm referring to don't. They could have been shot in a wide variety of places, and simply don't have the feel given by the rest of the collection. Anyway, if you're interested, I can tell precisely which ones I mean.

I'm not saying anything about the quality of these particular photos; some of them are among the best in the collection. They really struck me as out of place when going through the collection.

Having said this, first impressions are sometimes insightful, because one hasn't had time to think too much, but can also be wrong because one is being too superficial. So apologies in advance if the latter is the case.
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
Thanks for looking and for your comments, sizifo. I have a good idea of what you mean and the portraits that you are referring to, particularly the square one: the only thing that has kept that picture in the book is the darkness around the subject and her braces, but I'm still thinking about it. Another portrait shows a vulnerability that keeps it in. In contrast, the nudes, although they could be considered too stylized, work for me because of the sense of redemption or at least surcease that they adduce — carefully chosen word here — as do the leaves, but I don't want to go into an explanations of meanings and intentions because I feel that the pictures must speak for themselves.

—Mitch/Bangkok
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 

sizifo

New member
My problem was not so much with certain photos being stylized. As you say, even though they might be viewed so superficially, there is more to them.

My comment was more mathematical. The vast majority of the photos capture the daily life in the city. Then there are 4 sub-themes: leaves, fish, nudes, and portraits, each of which has relatively few representatives. So when looking through the collection they cause a clash. While maybe one or two could be effective, as a kind of counterpoint to the street photos, in my opinion 4 is too many. This is despite the fact that, for me, each of the sub-themes on its own does convey an abstract impression of the city successfully.
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
sizifo, you have to look at the book as having four chapters, and there is a reason for each of themes being in each of the chapters. For me, it works.

—Mitch/Windhoek
 

nostatic

New member
Mitch, I finally got to walk through all the images. Of course I didn't have enough time to properly digest, but here are some very quick impressions...sometimes I find them to be helpful. Take them with a salt lick.

I found the nudes jarring. Maybe that is the intent, and I know the reputation of Bangkok but there is something about them that takes me out of the flow and energy of the city.

I liked the palm/fish signals for chapter transitions (at least that was my take on them). It did take me awhile to "get it" though (and maybe I didn't ;) ).

The opening image didn't "grab" me. The musician in me harkens back to a core mantra - people only remember your first note and your last note. I'm not sure what I'd replace it with, but for instance the above image of the people walking under the scaffold with the dirt and the dog going the other way hooks me more.

Anyway, hopefully if I can clear my plate a bit more I can spend some more time walking through it. I love the stuff.
 

sizifo

New member
sizifo, you have to look at the book as having four chapters, and there is a reason for each of themes being in each of the chapters. For me, it works.

—Mitch/Windhoek
OK, I missed this... Makes things fall into place, and gives a sense to many of the photos I thought clashed.

The only photos that I remain unconvinced about are the following nudes: 48.-mikari_back_cropped_v2 34e3.-miaw_venetian_adj 34d.-buttons_v2 29a.-mikari_showoff_cropped 17.-miaw_nude_cropped .

With the chapters, the portraits work a lot better, though I can't say it's still works 100% for me.

Hope I'm not giving a wrong impression here. These are very minor comments. A really really impressive collection. You have +1 customer for sure.
 

nostatic

New member
Thanks. Nostatic. Replacing the first picture with the one above could make sense, and I'll think about it.

—Mitch/Tsumeb, Namibia
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
Actually, on further review, I think something with a bit more chaos in it would be a good opener. The problem is I only know Bangkok through pictures so I'm guessing. Were it Hong Kong, Beijing or Shanghai I'd feel better about my recommendation. For me (a westerner) Bangkok is neon, bicycles/scooters, activity, neon, food, sex, and relentless. I guess if you add all that up you get hysteria :)
 
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Mitch Alland

Guest
OK, I missed this... Makes things fall into place, and gives a sense to many of the photos I thought clashed.

The only photos that I remain unconvinced about are the following nudes: 48.-mikari_back_cropped_v2 34e3.-miaw_venetian_adj 34d.-buttons_v2 29a.-mikari_showoff_cropped 17.-miaw_nude_cropped...
Of course I see what you're saying, sizifo, but, for me, the difference in the feeling of the nudes — order, style, calm — has to do with what sex or love does, or at least what they can do, to one's psyche in the helter-skelter of life — and that's why I want these pictures in the bank: it's not really the idea of sex that tourists have about Thailand.

—Mitch/Tsumeb, Namibia
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/
 
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