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Next Gen Alpha FF DSLR

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Anybody knows about what/when Sony will release their next generation FF Top DSLR?

How many MPs? Heard rumors about 32MP while having higher sensitivity (less noise)?
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
where did you hear the rumours? I have heard nothing. 32mp up from 25 is not much of an increase (although more is generally better).

Quentin
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
OK, I'm interested :ROTFL: 35mp on a "35mm" dslr could test even Zeiss lenses and would make an interesting comparison with the far more expensive but similar pixel count Leica medium format.

Presumably, if its true, Sony would sell the sensor to Nikon, making a D4x a real possibility.

Quentin
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
If the A1R becomes true and if they hopefully come along without an AA filter, then this would be pretty sure the death of the S System and even some lower end MFDBs.

And in combination with the Zeiss glass and also the high end Alpha glass this would give a remarkable solution for high IQ.

Maybe we just have to be patient another 6 months?

I am definitely interested!
 
V

vyanush

Guest
If the A1R becomes true and if they hopefully come along without an AA filter, then this would be pretty sure the death of the S System and even some lower end MFDBs.
No, it will not kill it but would be nice "poor man Leica S" :)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
No, it will not kill it but would be nice "poor man Leica S" :)
By "killing and death" I mean that they - Leica - would not sell many S2s after that - why should one buy into a system which is 3 - 5 times the price and get maybe only 10 - 20% more quality?

I know this cannot be calculated like that in sharp numbers, but a big number of people who are considering to jump into MFDBs or the S System would stay in DSLR (Alpha) because of the IQ you could expect here.

Another thought is - maybe this A1R sensor is the first sign for improved CMOS (EXMOR) sensors which could find their way into MFDB world. That would be a healthy competition to Kodak and Dalsa, as I am pretty sure they are not so advanced with CMOS as Sony and Canon are.

All this is just great news as it again will reshape the whole photographic vendor landscape - great for us users!
 

edwardkaraa

New member
All what we have so far is rumors. The A1R is not very likely though. Certainly you can expect the next Sony flagship DSLR to feature a sensor which has higher than 25 mp, probably in the 30-35 mp, and in my opinion, not sooner than end of 2010.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
All what we have so far is rumors. The A1R is not very likely though. Certainly you can expect the next Sony flagship DSLR to feature a sensor which has higher than 25 mp, probably in the 30-35 mp, and in my opinion, not sooner than end of 2010.
Hm, not sure they will wait as long. I am kind of sure it will be an Exmor R sensor, the ones they are using now in the compact cameras, optimized for FF. With that sensor they should easily be able to achieve 35MP while also up to ISO 6400 in very good quality, without too much processing.

Only thing I really hope is, that they go the Leica / MFDB path finally and build this camera without any AA filter.

Not sure if all will be possible, but if I believe in one vendor to do so then it is Sony.

Also not sure if they will sell this sensor then to others like Nikon, but rather keep it as real competitive advantage.

And finally dreaming - if this would be possible for MFDBs then we are in the range of 80MP with an IQ better than today's 40MP backs.
 

edwardkaraa

New member
Regarding the AA Filter, that of the A900 is already very weak. The pixel density plays by itself the role of the AA filter so that it probably won't be needed at 30 ++ mp.
 

Terry

New member
I'm kinda happy with what I've got....but this is coming from a gal that likes her micro 4/3's stuff for daily walk around :p

My stitched shots from the A900 are pretty freaking huge and I only shoot for me. My new apartment has a lot of good wall space but not that much. :D
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Aren't we forgetting one very important question here: What's in it for Sony? While they may or may not attract a little group of MF or would be MF customers with a higher pixel-count, that is a tiny segment compared to the "normal" DSLR users. Other than being able to boast that they have the highest resolution DSLR (which they already have), the gain is probably tiny. A much more important improvement would be low light performance, and while it's not impossible that they could achieve that and increase the pixel count, they would obviously be able to improve it more by not increasing the pixel count other than by a small fraction.

I don't doubt that there will be a thirtysomething MP DSLR from Sony some time in the future, but I doubt that they are in a hurry.
 

peterv

New member
I'd be surprised if the S2 has 10-20% better IQ than the A850, let alone a new Sony camera.
Hi Douglas,

interesting statement. Could you please explain how you came to this insight?

Me, I think the a900 can certainly come a long way and I'm very happy with my Zeiss and Minolta glass. I've downloaded and played with the full size studio portraits, the DNG's that can be found on the net, and I must say that the difference with the a900 is not as big as I had expected.

But the S2 has a 50% larger sensor and Peter Karbe's glass... I guess we'll have to wait and see what Guy and Jack will show us next month.

Regards, Peter
 

Jonathon Delacour

Subscriber Member
Not sure if all will be possible, but if I believe in one vendor to do so then it is Sony.

Also not sure if they will sell this sensor then to others like Nikon, but rather keep it as real competitive advantage.
You appear not to be aware that there are two separate Sony divisions involved: Sony Semiconductor (which designs and manufactures the sensors) and Sony Imaging (which uses those sensors in the various Sony cameras). There is also a strong relationship between Sony Semiconductor and Nikon Precision (which makes technology that Sony Semiconductor uses to manufacture the sensors that both Sony Imaging and Nikon Imaging purchase).

It would hardly be in Sony Semiconductor's interest to alienate Nikon Imaging -- one of their biggest customers, apart from Sony Imaging -- by refusing to sell them a high-end sensor that would only be used in a relatively small number of Sony cameras. Such an action would create the kind of unnecessary tension that tightly interlocked Japanese companies do their best to avoid.
 

edwardkaraa

New member
Hi Douglas,

interesting statement. Could you please explain how you came to this insight?

Me, I think the a900 can certainly come a long way and I'm very happy with my Zeiss and Minolta glass. I've downloaded and played with the full size studio portraits, the DNG's that can be found on the net, and I must say that the difference with the a900 is not as big as I had expected.

But the S2 has a 50% larger sensor and Peter Karbe's glass... I guess we'll have to wait and see what Guy and Jack will show us next month.

Regards, Peter
Eventhough I don't like to go into the numbers game, 10-20% can mean anything and nothing. What I know is that the S2 sensor is 1.25X linearly larger than 24X36mm. From the optical characteristics point of view, there should be very little difference. I am not sure how the pixel density compares though, but it should be very close as well. Probably the only area where I see a difference is in the 16bit vs. 12 bit depth.
 

Bob

Administrator
Staff member
I'm kinda happy with what I've got....but this is coming from a gal that likes her micro 4/3's stuff for daily walk around :p

My stitched shots from the A900 are pretty freaking huge and I only shoot for me. My new apartment has a lot of good wall space but not that much. :D
But you will be able to crop that much more LOL
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
The biggest improvements which Sony can make in their next gen high end sensor are:

1) Some higher pixel count than today - 35 should be ok

2) better high ISO performance up to 6400

3) NO AA Filter !!!! - this is the most important improvement in order to enhance micro contrast

If they manage to balance all of these 3 improvements, then the outcome should be IQ pretty close to MF from 30 - 40 MPs.

Not sure if that will happen and how fast, but technically it is doable and the advantages would be huge compared to MF. And the Leica S2 would look pretty old then - unfortunately for Leica.

WRT lens quality and Peter Karbe etc .... not saying this is not goiong to be excellent lenses, but keep in mind that also all the best glass makes only a small difference for most of the photographic applications - even high end needs. And the glass available for Sony is pretty excellent - Zeiss anyway but also original Sony (Minolta) glass.

Just my 5c ;)
 

douglasf13

New member
Peterv, I have no real insight on comparisons between the S2 and A900. I was simply implying that 20% is likely too optimisitic of a difference.

Ptomsu, I'd be careful about wishing for great high ISO performance in the next Sony fullframe, or Sony may go ahead and follow Canon and Nikon with more transparent color filters. As the 5dii has shown, attempts at making a do-all camera can fall short, and using different cameras for different situations yields better results. Granted, the 5dii is outselling everything else. Lol.
 
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