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barjohn

New member
I have both the NEX 5 and the Ricoh GXR A12 and have owned the EP-1, G1 and GF-1. As much as I wanted to like the m4/3 sensor, they just aren't in the same league as the APS-C sensors and given the laws of physics probably won't ever be as each will improve at about the same rate. On the other hand, the m4/3rds sensor may reach the IQ point where the diffference doesn't outweigh the difference is lens size. In other words the image is so good under virtually all conceivable uses that being able to use smaller lenses outweighs the difference gaine by a larger sensor. Technically we aren't there today but who is to say in two or three years?

My current struggle is between two APS-C sensor cameras and right now the NEX is ahead becasue of the interchangeable lenses and the significantly faster AF. When it comes to UI, the Sony is not as bad as many would imply but the Ricoh UI is just naturally superb. The MF on the Sony is the one area that it beats the Ricoh hands down. I am still struggling with metering under harsh conditions or low light with the Sony and if you follow the Sony Alpha forum on DPR you will find that I am not alone here. However, in fairness to the Sony I still need to learn much more about using it before I blame anyone other than the photographer (me :) ). I should get the M adapter this week and I hope I can also get a 16mm pancake all of which should help me with my decision. I will post when I know.
 
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Vivek

Guest
John, Did you notice that I posted that my NX10 is still for available for purchase? It sports a 14MP APS-C sensor. :ROTFL:

Robert, As I posted here (worded clumsily and reads poorly when I look at it):

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16373 (post #6),

Olympus pen F 25mm f/2.8 is just OK (slight light fall off, use of any hood is not possible). Though I do not have a 20/3.5, I suspect that may not do well to cover the whole APS-C frame.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I have both the NEX 5 and the Ricoh GXR A12 and have owned the EP-1, G1 and GF-1. As much as I wanted to like the m4/3 sensor, they just aren't in the same league as the APS-C sensors and given the laws of physics probably won't ever be as each will improve at about the same rate.
Hi John
Do you really mean they aren't in the same league?
Have you actually done shot for shot comparisons of the same focal lengths in the same lighting of the same scene on tripods?
I agree that the current Sony APS-c sensors are better at high ISO, but in normal lighting the shot for shot comparisons I've done haven't come out with a winner. Now then, I haven't done this with the NEX, But I have done it with the GF1, EP1, EP2, X1 - and I've shown them to uninterested parties. To say that there is a fag paper in between seems to me to be questionable, but 'they aren't in the same league' is so far from the shots I've seen. As for the NEX - as I say, I haven't done shot/shot comparisons, but the optical quality of the kit lens seems questionable to me (certainly as far as distortion and corners is concerned).

If you have done such comparisons, and there really is a league of difference . . . perhaps it would be good if we could see them? If you haven't done the comparisons . . . maybe such cataclysmic judgements are a bit unfair?

all the best
 

barjohn

New member
Jono,

Just my opinion based on my observations. Perhaps a little exaggeration but I can see the difference with my less than perfect vision. I would agree there are shots at low ISO where it might be difficult to see the difference, not so much with the Panasonics where I can see the difference even at low ISO as noise is still visible; however, the Olys with their great JPGs are another story. I was really thinking about high ISO where the difference is pronounced. I find myself in a lot of low light situations and I need the clean high ISO shots. The NEX images clean up really well using Bibble 5 Pro and I suspect it may do even better in LR 3 once the converter is available for RAW. I also have Topaz Fusion Express that I haven't tried on these images since I can't process RAW in LR 3 yet.
 

dhsimmonds

New member
The GF1 is lovely . . . . but once again, no IS for 3rd party lenses, and I do like to use my 90 elmarit for a 180mm f2.8 . . . but image stabilisation is rather important. I also felt the build quality left something to be desired.
Hi Jono
I have read your interesting, (as always) comments about lack of IS on some of the various new little marvels. Also your prevailing preference for your beloved Leica M9.

However I don't ever remember reading about IS in your excellent review of the M9 or any of the M lenses!!:rolleyes: Oskar Barnack is probably turning in his grave as I write this!:eek:
 

volkerhopf

New member
I had an Olympus EP-1. I liked the body very much the interface was ok, but there were a few buts:
The LCD was not good enough to use it with my M lenses for manual focus
The image quality was not really exciting. I did no proper testing I just did not like it.

I bought the NEX5 2 weeks ago and I should get the M adapter next week. So far I am very happy with the little fella. It is light, the zoom is very reasonable and the main thing the image quality is very much what I like. The deciding factor will be how well it will work with the M lenses. I would be very happy to have it as a backup for the M8 and for the odd longer tele work when the 17-200 comes out. It is quite a big lens but I think it will handle quite well. The prototype I had on my camera in Taipei felt quite ok.
Some pictures are on my blog:

http://333-2009.blogspot.com/
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Jono
I have read your interesting, (as always) comments about lack of IS on some of the various new little marvels. Also your prevailing preference for your beloved Leica M9.

However I don't ever remember reading about IS in your excellent review of the M9 or any of the M lenses!!:rolleyes: Oskar Barnack is probably turning in his grave as I write this!:eek:
Touche! But it isn't an option on an M camera, but it IS an option on a mirrorless camera - At any rate, you aren't likely to be shooting an M9 at longer than 90mm . . . whereas I was talking of 180mm on the EP - added to which the weight and the way you hold it.

John - if it's for the low light I haven't another word to say!

all the best
 
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jackmartinn55

Guest
The Sony NEX3 and NEX5 is good option of Sony camera.The NEX5 is latest version. It is a digital camera. It is also calling "alpha compact interchangeable lens digital cameras". It has high image quality. The Sony NEX5 better than any model so far. There are so many new features in NEX5.
 

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
durrIII, I haven't owned any of the three you suggest (and probably never will, because of the lack of a built-in viewfinder).
But if I had to buy one of the three right now e.g. as a gift I would go with the NEX5 for the larger sensor format.

For a start I would ask Sony whether the image circle of the new Sony E mount lenses is covering more than an APS-C format sensor ... :angel:
Or whether the mount design (throat diameter) is prepared for a larger than APS-C format sensor ?
The present lenses may be APS-C format optics, but does the mount itself have room for a larger sensor in the future ?
I.e. is there an upgrade path for the system, did Sony think ahead while designing ... :)
That would be a little bit interesting to know before you buy into a brand new E mount system. I think.
 

dhsimmonds

New member
Touche! But it isn't an option on an M camera, but it IS an option on a mirrorless camera
Hi Jono........My tongue was firmly wedged in my cheek, as I am sure you realised!:ROTFL:

However, early images that I have seen from links on this forum are extremely promising when used with M mount lenses. Could also be easier (and shed loads cheaper) than the M8/9 for focusing from what I am reading from "real" (rather than review) every day photographers using the 14x LCD image preview.

The lens weight and size is not a bother to me. Holding the lens rather than the camera makes a lot of sense to me as I am rather used to that when using the 500mm lens on my full frame A900 hand held. It is a digital back attached to a lens in effect. My only nagging doubt is having to use the LCD only for framing the image.

I can't really get on with my DLux4 for that very same reason. I shall just have to go and try a NEX5 in my local L.C.E!! (that's always 'fatal'):bugeyes:
 
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Vivek

Guest
For a start I would ask Sony whether the image circle of the new Sony E mount lenses is covering more than an APS-C format sensor ... :angel:
Or whether the mount design (throat diameter) is prepared for a larger than APS-C format sensor ?
The present lenses may be APS-C format optics, but does the mount itself have room for a larger sensor in the future ?
I.e. is there an upgrade path for the system, did Sony think ahead while designing ... :)
That would be a little bit interesting to know before you buy into a brand new E mount system. I think.

Interesting thoughts, Steen.:)

If these would turn out to be reality (sooner the better), I can see the m4/3rds obliterated.

It also would make me wait and see what Sony would offer before taking the bite. As is, the "system" does not even have a body cap. No flashes , no EVF, nothing other than a couple of zoomz and one other lens plus purported converters (as if the prime is something special :rolleyes:).

Let us not forget that Sony is also likely to make promotions centered around its Bravia TV and the 3D feature of the NEX's.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Interesting thoughts, Steen.:)

If these would turn out to be reality (sooner the better), I can see the m4/3rds obliterated.
HI Vivek
You're assuming that the average user is going to put up with something much larger (lenses at least) on the basis of the difference in IQ between a m4/3 sensor and a larger one. I just don't see it, even at a professional level people are using Canon 7D when full frame sensors are also available - at this kind of amateur level I'd have thought that size was much more relevant that what is (let's face it) quite a minimal difference in sensor size between m/43 and APS-c (especially when you consider that 4:3 is a more printable ration than 3:2).

(pixel density on the GF1 is 5 MP/cm², on the NEX it's 4 MP/cm² . . . . and when you consider that lots of people will go for a Canon G11 with a pixel density of 23 MP/cm²).

Whether the ageing Panasonic sensor is up to par is a different matter, but I'm sure there is something new in the pipeline.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Jono........My tongue was firmly wedged in my cheek, as I am sure you realised!:ROTFL:
Absolutely - but a good dig is a good dig (all the better if it's tongue in cheek!).

The lens weight and size is not a bother to me. Holding the lens rather than the camera makes a lot of sense to me as I am rather used to that when using the 500mm lens on my full frame A900 hand held. It is a digital back attached to a lens in effect. My only nagging doubt is having to use the LCD only for framing the image.
well, okay, but if you're going to use a 500mm lens . . . . . why not use it on the A900 (or it's successor)?

I can't really get on with my DLux4 for that very same reason. I shall just have to go and try a NEX5 in my local L.C.E!! (that's always 'fatal'):bugeyes:
Well . . . I had a play at warehouseexpress (the showroom is only a 15minute drive from work, which has proved very expensive). I thought it was absolutely lovely, and I would certainly have bought it, except that the kit lens produced monumental distortion (and wasn't really small enough), the pancake was fab (but just a 24mm in my pocket ain't no good), and when I thought of using it with my darling 135 f1.8 I just thought . . well, what advantages does it have over the A900. If it had a nice 24-60 equivalent small zoom I'd be all over it . . . but it hasn't (and the size of the kit lens suggests it won't).

Of course, I do have M lenses, and could get an M adaptor . . . . . . . but then I'd rather use an M9 with them!

That's just me though - I think it's a great camera, I liked the interface, the build quality, the look, and if I didn't already have an M9 I'd probably be tempted.
 
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Vivek

Guest
HI Vivek
You're assuming that the average user is going to put up with something much larger (lenses at least) on the basis of the difference in IQ between a m4/3 sensor and a larger one. I just don't see it, even at a professional level people are using Canon 7D when full frame sensors are also available - at this kind of amateur level I'd have thought that size was much more relevant that what is (let's face it) quite a minimal difference in sensor size between m/43 and APS-c (especially when you consider that 4:3 is a more printable ration than 3:2).

(pixel density on the GF1 is 5 MP/cm², on the NEX it's 4 MP/cm² . . . . and when you consider that lots of people will go for a Canon G11 with a pixel density of 23 MP/cm²).

Whether the ageing Panasonic sensor is up to par is a different matter, but I'm sure there is something new in the pipeline.
Hi Jono,

I also do not think there is much of a difference. IMO, Sony missed out on releasing a 12MP NEX instead of these (no big deal given that they don't even have a body cap).

Panasonic's next model would sport voice controls in addition to touch screen menus and Olympus would make EPL- lite in different colors.:ROTFL:

Seriously, have you checked the newer TVs? Sony's Bravia goes head to head against Samsung's LED TVs.

Real improvements there.:thumbs:
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Jono,

I also do not think there is much of a difference. IMO, Sony missed out on releasing a 12MP NEX instead of these (no big deal given that they don't even have a body cap).

Panasonic's next model would sport voice controls in addition to touch screen menus and Olympus would make EPL- lite in different colors.:ROTFL:
. . . . . but nobody will release a small 24-something equivalent zoom (damn their teeth) :ROTFL:

The TV remark appeared as if by magic - just checked in the demonstration room, the 52" appears to be a panasonic, other than a glimpse of the football final, I don't think I've watched TV since Christmas, and on the rare occasions I do, it's either on a 24" imac or else an old Sony from . . . . . 1980?
 
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Vivek

Guest
You are way too quick with your response Jono. By the time I added the TV stuff, you had already posted.

Yes, the classic Trinitron still works.

The latest LCD/TFT/LED TVs are very impressive. Some even do 3D nicely.
 
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terryc

Guest
I own m4/3 Oly and Pany, but bought the NEX 5 with 16mm lens for it's very good panorama capabilities and it has been fun for that. A pocket (using the word loosely) panorama camera which actually works. The IQ is very very good and beyond panorama use a good still camera.

I was concerned about the interface but it seems relatively intuitive as it is different from the Pany.

The NEX 5 seems well built - I do find it a bit strange that there are no body or rear lens caps in the box, the lens hood for the zoom seems to work well on the 16mm. When you open a new Pany or Oly box you realize the contents were well thought-out compared to the Sony.

I did find that a rear cap from Oly digital lenses sort of works on the Sony E lenses (close enough for now).

Cheers, Terry
 
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Vivek

Guest
To the NEX owners: how many shots each fully charged battery provides (without any flash use)? TIA!

I have been looking at the NEX and the Pana (G1/G2, etc) batteries:

Pana battery 107g, ~ much cheaper than Sony one and is lot more powerful (1250 mAH. Works for ~250 shots for me on an average).

Sony battery 57g, less power (1080 mAH) and is pricey.
 
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