Sony NEX-VG10, 18-200 E-mount

[roweraay]

* I have looked at the Olympus and Pana clip ons and the Samsung NX10 EVF. The one in G1 is a cut above all these.

Sony's intent is to dominate this market and this is a segment that has been identified as a strategic growth area, based on how they are pushing these products (with constant presence on the road of folks like Toru Katsumoto and Masashi Imamura - who are the top bigwigs in their Imaging arena). I don't think they will compromise on things like the EVF etc and introduce products of an overtly lower spec than say something from Panasonic.

I would look at the EVF that is present in the NEX camcorder, to have an idea of what the specs on the clip-on EVF would be like. The 16mm's OVF is something I personally would not even bother to purchase, to be quite honest, even though it does look like a well built product - I don't consider it useful enough.

 

[sebboh]

* I have looked at the Olympus and Pana clip ons and the Samsung NX10 EVF. The one in G1 is a cut above all these.

what do you like about the g1 evf over the oly one out of curiousity? I've heard a lot of people say they like the Olympus clip on better than the g1/gh1 evf.

 

[Vivek]

Sony's intent is to dominate this market and this is a segment that has been identified as a strategic growth area, based on how they are pushing these products (with constant presence on the road of folks like Toru Katsumoto and Masashi Imamura - who are the top bigwigs in their Imaging arena).

I honestly do not give a dime's worth at what these guys say. They (Sony) also say that this type of cameras are aimed at P&S shoot users "transitioning" into higher quality cameras.

If that is the case (ie target customer group), why on earth would they be promoting cameras that can use old manual focus lenses.

Just how many P&S cam owners would be digging up olympus pen F or Contax G lenses to use on the NEXs and the Gs?

If they are serious about "dominating" the market ROTFL, they would be giving away body caps and lens rear caps to every NEX owner for free and with a note of apology.

Sony have managed to come up with an APS-C sensored digital back. I applaud their efforts with the purchase of a NEX-5 kit. I am waiting for them to make a real camera that is truly useful.

 

[Vivek]

what do you like about the g1 evf over the oly one out of curiousity? I've heard a lot of people say they like the Olympus clip on better than the g1/gh1 evf.

Pellicle has explained why the G1 EVF is more sophisticated (search the 4/3rds board).

I do not like any EVF that is so sharp that all the pixels are visible (and not the information that I need to see).

 

[roweraay]

I am waiting for them to make a real camera that is truly useful.

"Real cameras" will come, and you can bet your bottom dollar about it. I would be surprised if there is no announcement by Photokina about such more advanced products (maybe a "NEX7"), including some higher-end prime lenses.

These particular products released till date, seem to be more of a proof-of-concept on what kind of (petite) size is possible with an APS-C sensor in the body, as a counterpoint to such "micro" products already available in the marketplace.

As it stands, the NEX5 is a perfect foil for my A900. When absolutely maximum imaging performance is required, the A900 (with lenses like the CZ 135mm f/1.8 Sonnar or CZ 85mm f/1.4 Planar) gets deployed.....those are fit enough to be blown upto 24"x36" on canvas, and hung on a wall (I have a few of those).

The NEX5 (with the 18-55) covers a lot of ground when it comes to being taken along for casual shooting, travel and HD video....."real camera" be damned, even though I personally would have preferred to have ISO and PASM controls in a handier fashion, along with a built-in EVF. A clip-on EVF will work too but an EVF is definitely needed. I recently bought a Leica 35/2 Pre-ASPH Summicron to use as a compact high quality walkaround on the NEX but without an EVF, I am leaning towards not keeping the lens and plan to sell it off.

 

[Vivek]

A clip-on EVF will work too but an EVF is definitely needed. I recently bought a Leica 35/2 Pre-ASPH Summicron to use as a compact high quality walkaround on the NEX but without an EVF, I am leaning towards not keeping the lens and plan to sell it off.

Just goes to illustrate the fact a "proof of concept" digital back isn't the real thing.

Not even my bottom dime. That is what I said.

 

[sebboh]

i personally have no interest in a "real" mirrorless camera, if the camera needs to be bigger for the evf i'll live without the evf. i think sony looked at the sales numbers from the different µ4/3 cameras and decided that small was what the largest section of the market for still cameras wanted and targeted that. hopefully they'll come out with some higher end lenses at photokina. i have heard that the higher end NEX won't come out till after photokina.

 

[roweraay]

i personally have no interest in a "real" mirrorless camera, if the camera needs to be bigger for the evf i'll live without the evf. i think sony looked at the sales numbers from the different µ4/3 cameras and decided that small was what the largest section of the market for still cameras wanted and targeted that. hopefully they'll come out with some higher end lenses at photokina. i have heard that the higher end NEX won't come out till after photokina.

Agreed that the "smallness" of the NEX5 is a big draw and is the calling card here, and the whole design of the product was intended to emphasize that.

But going by the size they managed to get it down to, along with the incredibly low flange-back distance, clearly a "NEX7" can easily fit in all kinds of manual controls/dials/buttons/built-in flash/EVF/in-body-Image-stabilization etc and still be smaller than a Panasonic GF1 that contains a relatively small sensor. A GF1-sized body is not too bad from a portability standpoint, if it comes with these additional controls, and I will be willing to take that hit on portability, for the extras that it brings.....after all, we are not talking about a Nikon D3X (or even a Nikon D700 or Sony A900 or even a Nikon D60....hell even a Panasonic GH1) sized body here.

Of course there will always be the NEX5/NEX3 for folks who want to give up some of the manual controls for the size reduction.

PS: An in-body Image stabilization can be firmware controlled to optionally switch off when a lens with IS is mounted and/or when video is being shot. The advantage here being that the in-body IS system can be used with primes (both system ones and also aftermarket ones).

 

[roweraay]

Here is a review on the new NEX VG10 by LL:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/camcorders/vg10.shtml

 

[sebboh]

But going by the size they managed to get it down to, along with the incredibly low flange-back distance, clearly a "NEX7" can easily fit in all kinds of manual controls/dials/buttons/built-in flash/EVF/in-body-Image-stabilization etc and still be smaller than a Panasonic GF1 that contains a relatively small sensor. A GF1-sized body is not too bad from a portability standpoint, if it comes with these additional controls, and I will be willing to take that hit on portability, for the extras that it brings.....after all, we are not talking about a Nikon D3X (or even a Nikon D700 or Sony A900 or even a Nikon D60....hell even a Panasonic GH1) sized body here.

Of course there will always be the NEX5/NEX3 for folks who want to give up some of the manual controls for the size reduction.

PS: An in-body Image stabilization can be firmware controlled to optionally switch off when a lens with IS is mounted and/or when video is being shot. The advantage here being that the in-body IS system can be used with primes (both system ones and also aftermarket ones).

i would love to have in body image stabilization. as far as size goes anything bigger than the gf1 is unacceptable for me though (the maximum size that i can comfortably fit in a cargo or jacket pocket). gh1 form factor offers no advantage over a dslr for me. as far as controls go just adding 2 or 3 buttons and allowing me to program the functions of a couple of others is all i want (which shouldn't add to the size at all). to be honest, unless i start using autofocus lenses i don't need any extra buttons - just let me use the flash button to set iso when the flash isn't attached (please sony).

 

[roweraay]

Just goes to illustrate the fact a "proof of concept" digital back isn't the real thing.

Overall, from my brief venture into buying RF lenses for use on the NEX, I have come around to the view that if you are shooting another system natively (like say Leica M), and already have a boatload of lenses, it may be worthwhile to get an adapter to use them on a product like the NEX.

It is just not worthwhile buying RF lenses specifically for use on the NEX, due to:
a) Even though there are features that help in finetuning focus, doing that at arm's length is not very user friendly, and results in misfocused images. A rangefinder of course is custom made for quick manual focus, and doing so on a screen is not the same, nor anywhere close to as user friendly (even with the focus help).
b) These lenses are not cheap - especially the good ones.

So if/when Sony themselves releases such primes (maybe a Zeiss 21-24mm or so), I will pick them (it) up. Hopefully it will be a Biogon and not a Distagon design, for compactness.

 

[roweraay]

gh1 form factor offers no advantage over a dslr for me.

Agree, one hundred percent ! Even though most people tend to prefer the "grippy" shape, I find a "bricky" shape to be loads more friendly for portability and would be what I would vote for. A "grippy" GH1 is the same as a small dslr and thus is totally unfriendly from a portability standpoint, as far as I am concerned.

I doubt Sony would go down the GH1 shaped route however, since they have more than enough dSLRs in their A-mount that are shaped like the GH1. They don't need to route their NEX models down that path, since their philosophy with the NEX seems to be smaller body sizes.

 

[douglasf13]

Not for me. The NEX-5 with an M lens and tilt up screen is a revelation for me, and, if the NEX had an A900 sensor in it, I'd probably rarely use my A900 anymore. I find myself nailing focus with NEX at f1.4 most of the time without magnification, and always with 7x mag. I'll get the evf for occasional use when it comes, but I really don't need it. I agree with sebboh that I don't really need more buttons, but, rather, programable button options. I just keep the camera in M mode always, and everything except ISO is right there and easy to adjust. I also wish that the ISO was indicated in the display screen mode with the least info, rather than in the more cluttered display mode.

I would like some AF Zeiss lenses.

Overall, from my brief venture into buying RF lenses for use on the NEX, I have come around to the view that if you are shooting another system natively (like say Leica M), and already have a boatload of lenses, it may be worthwhile to get an adapter to use them on a product like the NEX.

It is just not worthwhile buying RF lenses specifically for use on the NEX, due to:
a) Even though there are features that help in finetuning focus, doing that at arm's length is not very user friendly, and results in misfocused images. A rangefinder of course is custom made for quick manual focus, and doing so on a screen is not the same, nor anywhere close to as user friendly (even with the focus help).
b) These lenses are not cheap - especially the good ones.

So if/when Sony themselves releases such primes (maybe a Zeiss 21-24mm or so), I will pick them (it) up. Hopefully it will be a Biogon and not a Distagon design, for compactness.

 

[sebboh]

Not for me. The NEX-5 with an M lens and tilt up screen is a revelation for me, and, if the NEX had an A900 sensor in it, I'd probably rarely use my A900 anymore. I find myself nailing focus with NEX at f1.4 most of the time without magnification, and always with 7x mag. I'll get the evf for occasional use when it comes, but I really don't need it. I agree with sebboh that I don't really need more buttons, but, rather, programable button options. I just keep the camera in M mode always, and everything except ISO is right there and easy to adjust. I also wish that the ISO was indicated in the display screen mode with the least info, rather than in the more cluttered display mode.

I would like some AF Zeiss lenses.

i agree about the manual focusing. i find it quite easy and very accurate. it's not as fast as manual focusing with a rangefinder but just as fast as manual focusing with a film slr and more accurate than both (no focus shift or dependence on proper calibration). i can see how it would be a problem for anyone that needs reading glasses though. i would like a clip on evf or IBIS (or both) for low light though - my most common reason for missed shots is camera movement. with image stabilization on an slr i can shoot 700mm equivalent at 1/30s and get 20% of my images sharp. with such a lightweight camera held away from my body (and no image stabilization) i can barely get 20% of my images sharp at 1/30s with a 63mm equivalent lens!

 

[douglasf13]

Yeah, I usually hold the camera against my body like a waist level VF camera, so it is still pretty stable. I've rarely been holding out in front of my face.

 

[MPK2010]

Not for me. The NEX-5 with an M lens and tilt up screen is a revelation for me, and, if the NEX had an A900 sensor in it, I'd probably rarely use my A900 anymore. I find myself nailing focus with NEX at f1.4 most of the time without magnification, and always with 7x mag. I'll get the evf for occasional use when it comes, but I really don't need it. I agree with sebboh that I don't really need more buttons, but, rather, programable button options. I just keep the camera in M mode always, and everything except ISO is right there and easy to adjust. I also wish that the ISO was indicated in the display screen mode with the least info, rather than in the more cluttered display mode.

I would like some AF Zeiss lenses.

I agree 100% with this view. Manual focus is really easy after a few weeks practice and accurate 100% of the time. I also shoot at waist level most of the time, unless I am specifically trying to look like a tourist.

I still think the M lenses render better on the M8 (and I'm sure more so on the M9), but sometimes the results with this camera can be just great.

 

[sebboh]

Yeah, I usually hold the camera against my body like a waist level VF camera, so it is still pretty stable. I've rarely been holding out in front of my face.

yeah, that's what i do when i use the camera for walk around shots. for social pics i prefer a higher perspective and unfortunately these are typically in the worst light. mostly i've just been bumping the iso to 3200 or higher.