I hate to be the one bringing you bad news

[Terry]

I'm clearly not an expert on sensor design but all the stuff I've seen says there isn't a big benefit of backlit sensors as the sensor gets bigger. It is said that there are less electorics that get in the way of the photosites on the larger sensors. So, no doubt as I can see from the 14MP APS-c sized NEX they can certainly improve the ISO capability of the A900 sensor. For me, and I am probably more unique, I use the A900 mostly between ISO 200-400 for landscape work so, I've never really been bothered by the A900's ISO performance. If 30MP gets in to the realm of not being easy to handhold for a crisp shot then it won't be as useful to me either

 

[douglasf13]

Yeah, a Sony guy implied as much a few months ago. The ratio of electronics to sensor size in aps-c and bigger sensors isn't enough to make large performance gains by backlighting the sensor. It's a tiny sensor technology.

 

[fotografz]

Whew, I just check my two A900s ... and they still work. I looked inside and it was still a FF sensor ... what a relief.

The Zeiss logo didn't fall off my lenses either ... and the color, contrast, etc. etc., straight out of the camera is still better than anything out there. Better than the Canon's I shot ... which was all of them from the 6 meg 30D to the 1DsMKIII Better than the Nikons I used ... which also was most all of them from the D1x to the D3X. Seems other people have way more time than I do to fart around with fixing stuff in post ... the worst time hole was the D3X.

I DO consider the A900 the Contax replacement ... which I also had from the RX, AX, N and ND. It's also the closest thing to the IQ of the DMR ... which (sigh) I also had ...but the A900 is FF, actually works with TTL flash, and has AF.

So, I agree with Jono, I wouldn't know where to go. My trek is done ... I'm not doing a photo version of the Ground Hog Day movie and repeating everything over-and-over.

Actually my wish is to get out of 35mm DSLRs all togethter ... :thumbs: So, for sure this Sony is the last one.

Marc

 

[picman]

Whew, I just check my two A900s ... and they still work. I looked inside and it was still a FF sensor ... what a relief.

The Zeiss logo didn't fall off my lenses either ... and the color, contrast, etc. etc., straight out of the camera is still better than anything out there.

I DO consider the A900 the Contax replacement ...
Marc

:thumbup:

 

[ptomsu]

I tried multiple times to get out of 35mm DSLR, but so far this did not come true. Even with those advanced MFDBs like P40+ and H4D40 there are too many limitations WRT high ISO performance and lenses - especially tele and zoom lenses.

I rather think that FF DSLRs will get pretty close in their next incarnation no matter if they come from Canon, Nikon or Sony. These will have around 30-36 MP and will be still better at higher ISO than current 40MP top of the MFDB line offerings.

I hoped the S System to become a total replacement of DSLR, but obviously this did not happen and will not happen too soon - sigh!

So for me a combination of M43 plus high ISO capable DSLR plus reasonable MFDB is my current lineup. And I am a happy camper in all those camps so far!

 

[fotografz]

I tried multiple times to get out of 35mm DSLR, but so far this did not come true. Even with those advanced MFDBs like P40+ and H4D40 there are too many limitations WRT high ISO performance and lenses - especially tele and zoom lenses.

I rather think that FF DSLRs will get pretty close in their next incarnation no matter if they come from Canon, Nikon or Sony. These will have around 30-36 MP and will be still better at higher ISO than current 40MP top of the MFDB line offerings.

I hoped the S System to become a total replacement of DSLR, but obviously this did not happen and will not happen too soon - sigh!

So for me a combination of M43 plus high ISO capable DSLR plus reasonable MFDB is my current lineup. And I am a happy camper in all those camps so far!

I think that depends on personal applications, and alternative gear.

I was also convinced that the 35mm DSLR was essential ... mostly due to the higher ISO performance, thus the D3 was part of my gear closet.

However, I did a survey of my own work over a 2 year period or so ... by studying the Exif info from 10,000+ wedding and personal shots ... and found that ISO 1250 was as high as I went, with a few higher that rarely got used. I also rarely used the base ISO in any camera unless in the studio. What was important was ISO performance from 320 to 800 which was overwhelmingly a vast majority of the keeper shots.

What you think you need and what you actually use can be two different things entirely.

I dumped the D3, and have never missed it. For low ambient light shots I tend to favor the M9 and fast M lenses anyway. That M kit is not going any where ... but it is not a big assed 35mm DSLR

Tomorrow, I will be shooting a wedding and will take the Sony A900 with a 24-70 ... but only as back-up to the H4D/40. I sure am not buying a second H4D/40 as a back up :ROTFL:

What I've learned so far is that even when using LR for the Hassey H4D/40 shots (volume amounts of images are easier to push through LR) ... LR's new noise controls have made ISO 800 incredibly good and 1600 very usable for candid ambient light works. I also found that the True Focus feature is faster than the A900 AF for off-center compositions which is also a vast majority of what I shoot. Plus, setting manual WB with the H4 is also faster, important because of the mixed lighting at weddings, and the ever changing lighting scenarios. The Hassey TTL flash is also faster and easier to use than any 35mm DSLR including the Sony.

DSLRs could squeeze 50 meg into that confined sensor size and it'll still never be MFD IQ. So it doesn't matter where that goes in future.

Like you I also looked to the S2 as an alternative and found it lacking in that comparison criteria ... but that was before Hassey announced the H4D.

I won't be offing the Sony kit, it would be to big a loss and not worth it ... but it'll get used less and less as I master this new H4D.

-Marc

 

[roweraay]

From what I read and putting two-and-two together, I believe this is a Nikon engineered rumor to play on the fears - real or otherwise - of people shooting Sony, and an attempt to hurt their business using a below-the-belt blow. Sony has been eating Nikon's lunch in the high-resolution, reasonably priced, Full-frame segment, and with no Nikon alternative (say a D700X) in the pipeline (due to the economics of the sensor sourcing costs from Sony), they needed to slow down the Sony rise.

I am not however saying that Thom Hogan is lying. He just was bamboozled into publishing what he did......and probaby subliminally wanted to believe in what he published, based on his sentiments for Nikon, being a long-term Nikon shooter.

What was stated, was however very cunningly done. It was designed to sow doubts regardless of what Sony introduces in the near term. There is a belief that a higher resolution Sony FF (an A9xx) is on the way, and Nikon is running pillar to post to try and match that (having decided to pursue non-Sony alternatives for their FF cameras). The higher resolution (and higher specced and higher priced) FF is enabled via the presence of the A850, which will in turn hold the fort for a reasonably priced FF alternative within the Sony stable, for the next year or so.

Bottomline, expecting a strategic player like Sony to exit the market after investing all they did into it, is trying to stop and push a rolling boulder uphill.

 

[jonoslack]

What was stated, was however very cunningly done. It was designed to sow doubts regardless of what Sony introduces in the near term. There is a belief that a higher resolution Sony FF (an A9xx) is on the way, and Nikon is running pillar to post to try and match that (having decided to pursue non-Sony alternatives for their FF cameras).

Certainly a plausible argument - it's one of those things which it would be crazy not to do! Mind you, that doesn't mean that Nikon did it - could have been a dealer or a troublesome priest!:ROTFL:

 

[Bill_Green]

Bottomline, expecting a strategic player like Sony to exit the market after investing all they did into it, is trying to stop and push a rolling boulder uphill.

I really hope that is correct. I'm admittedly gun shy after going through this with the Leica DMR. The A900 is a great camera, I just want to see something from Sony beyond the Minolta legacy that says they are committed to a pro-level full-frame camera. I don't actually care if it is a press release, roadmap or actual product.

 

[mjm6]

I switched from Canon to Sony (after 25+ years with Canon) because of the quality of the viewfinder with the Sony.

While many people talk about high ISO performance and the Sony not bieng at that same level compared to the Nikon or Canon offerings, that is not a real concen for the vast majority of shooters, and for pro shooters as well. The day-to-day interface is very important, however, and I believe the Sony has it over Canon and Nikon easily. I like the color rendering of the camera as well, much better than the Canon 5DMKII I had before it.

I would not have considered a switch to Sony without the full frame camera availability. I'm very happy with the Sony a900 and the Leica M9, and don't anticipate any changes to my system for a while (with the possible addition of new lenses!), but if the camera proves to be a dead end, I would be very disappointed in Sony for throwing their hat in the ring and then pulling out so fast.

In the meantime, I will keep using the camera and continue to make images that I'm very pleased with.

As a note, the new version of Lightroom (3) has considerably cleaned up it's high ISO performance, making it an even better camera than it was. It's worth it to download a trial of that if you are a high-ISO shooter.


---Michael

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

I too switched from Canon for my DSLR needs. The a900 has proved fast,reliable and intuitive. It's a workhorse! Mine is nearly two years old. I use it mostly with the Zeiss 135/f1.8 and the 70-400G - both very sharp lenses at full aperture.

In C1 the files need virtually no manipulation.

I think it most unlikely that Sony would drop such a successful camera.

Bill

 

[mjm6]

I'd like to see Sony come out with the first 30+ MP 35mm camera. That would really turn up the heat on the Canikon world. It wouldn't surprise me if they do.

Whether people need such a camera is somewhat immaterial... most of us don't need a 20MP camera.

I do think that the Zeiss lenses are probably up to the challenge.

The finer the pixel pitch is, the less AA filtering is necessary as well, so that improvement increases the value n the move to super MP cameras. My use of the M9 has proven to me that I really don't need much AA filtering most of the time (but I don't shoot fashion).

All in all, I think this is an exciting time to be shooting and developing cameras. I would be saddened to see Sony step back from the edge into pure consumer products.

I really can't see that happening.

---Michael

 

[mjm6]

Here's an example of it's high ISO performance...

Straight from the camera, two images stitched and cropped.

I'll give a gold star to the first person who can name the building!


---Michael

 

[edwardkaraa]

The problem with Sony is that, from one side, they complain that their FF cameras are not selling well, but from the other side, they do not develop lenses to close the gaps in the line, they even do not allow Zeiss to make their MF lenses in alpha mount. If only they allowed the latter, they could have sold much more cameras and many Canikon/Zeiss users would have been tempted to switch due to the better sensor performance. Too bad Sony shoots itself in the foot and then complains

 

[Steen]

Exactly, Edward !
To me it looks like the strategy is directed by the top level leadership in the entire electronic Sony company rather than (the former Konica Minolta team ?) in the dedicated camera division. Expecting the customers to buy the top level cameras without Sony having or at least planning a full range of top level lenses is optimistic say the least. They don't seem to understand that actually the most crucial part of a system is the optics. Cameras just come and go.
I have been sitting on the fence waiting for the lenses for a couple of years now. Guess I just end up staying where I am.

 

[Steen]

(...) I'm admittedly gun shy after going through this with the Leica DMR. The A900 is a great camera, I just want to see something from Sony beyond the Minolta legacy that says they are committed to a pro-level full-frame camera. I don't actually care if it is a press release, roadmap or actual product.

I fully agree, Bill.
Sony needs to react. Otherwise there will be so many customer choices based on fear instead of information. Just like with the Leica R system.
A discontinuation rumor is not just any kind of harmless rumor. It would be very unwise not to react.
I cannot imagine we won't see one or more interviews before Photokina or at Photokina at the latest.
In my opinion it's sluggish leadership they haven't already reacted.

 

[douglasf13]

Sony considers G lenses to be their Canon L equivalents, and I'm not sure I'd say there are THAT many gaps. A faster 50mm and t/s come to mind, but I'd say there is a pretty solid Sony lineup, considering.

As for the Zeiss manual lenses, I certainly wish the same, but no company is going to contract lenses with another company while simultaneously allowing the lens maker to sell lenses that compete with their line. Unfortunately, it just wouldn't make sense.

 

[Steen]

(...) doesn't mean that Nikon did it - could have been a dealer or a troublesome priest!:ROTFL:

 

[jonoslack]

:ROTFL::ROTFL:
Is that Edward or Thom Hogan

 

[jonoslack]

Too bad Sony shoots itself in the foot and then complains

Are they complaining about it? Haven't seen it myself, but I would love to.