I hate to be the one bringing you bad news

[ptomsu]

Hi Jorgen
I'm afraid I'm inclined to agree - we live in a changing world, and I wonder about Sony's ambitions to get into the professional market.

While I am also about agreeing that it is very likely that Sony will stop FF in their DSLRs, I would not say that they cannot make a professional DSLR (even mirrorless) with a smaller sensor. I do not know the Sony lineup pretty good, but I am pretty sure there is a Crop DSLR which matches pro requirements. As there is at Nikon (D300s, D7000) and Canon (60D? ...).

Interesting evolution as sensor design progresses and matures over the years. Today a Crop sensor with the right optics can deliver images qualities which were only possible in the best pro DSLRs a few years ago.

Another one comes to my mind - Olympus with their E5. I meanwhile looked into this camera and its possibilities much closer and I must say I am slightly overwhelmed. Pair their design with the absolutely great Pro Level Zuikos and you have a killing and winning combo. And all that with just a small 43 sensor. And there is room for improvement, as the sensor of the GH2 with 18 (16) MP shows. As there is for sure in the APSC sensors as well.

So maybe sensor size is no longer the real issue for the future. We are seeing every year so many improvements in sensor design, that slowly we are reaching the flat and stable part of the curve. Who needs more than 15-20MP if not for high resolution large prints ??? What most photographers rather need is smaller and lighter gear with good performance - see that success of M43 and NEX. Which BTW makes me wonder why we did not see NEX like cameras from Nikon and Canon so far ?????

Interesting future.

I myself am almost ready to go back to 43 with the E5 and have this system parallel to the Hasselblad, which I can use for real high resolution - till maybe 43 reaches some 40MPs - never say never - everything can happen

 

[douglasf13]

Sony isn't going to stop fullframe camera production anytime soon, IMO. There has been no indication of it, outside of that Thom Hogan guesswork.

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

Sony isn't going to stop fullframe camera production anytime soon, IMO. There has been no indication of it, outside of that Thom Hogan guesswork.

I completely agree, Douglas! Looking back at 3 or 4 months of this thread, it's amazing how one unsubstantiated rumour can generate so much on-line discussion!

There is no indication AT ALL from Sony that they are contemplating the worst fears expressed here.

Bill

 

[dhsimmonds]

There is no indication AT ALL from Sony that they are contemplating the worst fears expressed here.
Bill

Bill, I totally agree! The A900 must be one of those very rare exceptions in the DSLR world....as far as I am aware there has been no new firmware versions since the camera was introduced.....neither have I seen much clamouring for any by users. Sure the A850 came afterwards but still in parallel with the 900.

I heard on fairly good authority that once the 3 and 5 series were updated the much awaited A700 replacement and then the A900 would be introduced in 2011...the A700 being next on the list.

The A580 is the last of the 5 series and by all accounts it's a cracker of a camera so hopefully the A700/900 will also be very worthwhile improvements on what are already first class pro quality cameras.

Meanwhile the much awaited A300mm G full frame lens should soon be launched...what does that tell us?!!

 

[ptomsu]

Well, I agree it is amazing what comes out of rumors. Having said that it is not a complete rumor, because it is based on an official statement of an employee of Sony - right - and we all know Sony's history with advanced and leading technologies: Betamax, Videodisc, etc.....

Hoping this will not happen to their FF DSLR line is a different thing and actually I do not hop it happens, also I am out of Sony DSLRs for the moment because I had my serious reasons to do so. And it also does not help if we learn out of his thread that Nikon is not using Sony chips for their sensors, because then the Sony FF sensor market is sill smaller than expected.

If they would really take the FF Pro DSLR serious, then we would see at least some FW updates for their A900 or meanwhile also a new model based on whatever new chip technology. But there is nothing. Instead they are trying to get number 1 in mirror less (NEX and A33/55) which is BTW a great thing and maybe the real future for DSLR, if only EVFs become better!

WRT FF 300 lens - well this is kind of ridiculous as Nikon and Canon have such glass in their - maybe 5th - generation and Sony manages to bring their 1st ?? And what about 2.8 / 400 and some high speed 500 and 600 ?? And not to speak about some of these lenses coming from Zeiss, who would have these designs ready since years???? Lot of ?????? Right?

Just my 5c.

 

[dhsimmonds]

Peter

First of all a correction is required regarding my preceding post...it should have mentioned the already announced but not yet launched A500 G lens..not 300, sorry about that.

Secondly, Zeiss are not known for their long focal length AF SLR lenses, which as a wildlife shooter is a great pity but I doubt if I would ba able to lift them let alone handhold them when attached to an A900!

Canon and Nikon have a lot of history whereas Sony are the new boys on the block regardless or because of their old Minolta stable they are still developing their lens range, albeit slowly, I would agree.

On the camera development front, Sony seem to be leading the pack and if they can transfer some of the innovations to the high end 700/900 ranges, we are IMHO in for a real treat.

Personally, I have never found the Sony lens range to be inhibiting at all.

There is a superb range of third party Alpha fit lenses available for the longer stuff and whilst one has to be careful as all lens ranges have their "dogs"; I can honestly say for instance, that my Tamron 200/500 zoom is sharper than my much acclaimed Sony 70-400 G. Whether this is a weight factor or not I have yet to determine...the 70-400 G is also not as robustly built.

I have encountered a lot of "label snobbery" when it comes to lenses and cameras come to that. As far as I am concerned it's the resulting images that matter to me and not the label!

If you are happy with your Nikon, then I am pleased for you. I do not use Nikon and so I would never dream of posting on the Nikon section of this forum....or even ever reading it!

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I just bought into this system with a 850, 24-70 and 135mm so it better not be going anywhere. LOL

Actually I need a good 200mm and trying to figure out a good solution for that. Gear slut strikes again. LOL

 

[dhsimmonds]

Two excellent lenses to start with Guy!

I have both of 'em, heavy but great performance. The 24-70 vignettes slightly at the widest setting so watch the filter rim size. Strangely the 16-35 doesn't at all and it's another great Zeiss lens.

 

[fotografz]

Peter, Peter, Peter ... I'm sure your enthusiasm for Nikon is well founded.

Personally, I couldn't professionally justify a pair of $7,000. to $8,000. bodies against two A900s for less that half that investment. There are much better places to spend that capital. I had the D3X and nano coated lenses ... a very nice camera if you had the time to tease and tickle the files to get the most out of them ... where the A900 delivers it out of the camera most of the time, and has miles of data room to tease and tickle if you so wish ... which in my case is close to never needed, and even less desired.

I'd also agree that Nikon has made great strides in the lens department, and that Zeiss isn't an immediate guarantee of superior optics in comparison. However, every ZA lens is stabilized ... especially the workhorse lenses that put bread on the table, and "bread" in the bank account.
I'd disagree with your fervor for the 70-200 VR-II ... no visual evidence that it out performs the Sony 70-200/2.8APO.

Spend less, get more ... that's a camera statistic I favor over Brand wars and all that other internet opinionated nonsense. Leaves more cash for investment in stuff that DOES murder all 35mm DSLRs in IQ, or other photographic attributes ... the MFD gear, and Leica M goodies.

My 1¢ worth

-Marc

 

[ptomsu]

@ Dave,

nothing is further away from me than to feel happy if Sony stops FF. That would mean another competitor less, which is always bad for the whole business.

Unfortunately I have been through many camera brands (analog as well as digital), so I have some experience with those I had - Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Leica, Sony (Minolta), Contax - hope I did not forget one Gearslut - I know.

And believe me, if Sony comes with a nice next FF DSLR and Nikon does not I would be switching back to Sony faster as you could think

If I am one thing, it is that I am NOT gear agnostic

 

[Terry]

Bill, I totally agree! The A900 must be one of those very rare exceptions in the DSLR world....as far as I am aware there has been no new firmware versions since the camera was introduced.....neither have I seen much clamouring for any by users.

Funny, after all this time (and perhaps because an 850/900 replacement may be a ways off), i saw this the other day....well the whiners on DPReview have been clamoring for one.....

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-...on-oh-yes-sony-santa-claus-does-really-exist/

"And here I am again with the next A850/A900 firmware rumor. Sony was expected to release that firmware a few months ago but as I learned from my sources Sony had many problems with the “old” minolta software architecture of the A850/A900. I confess that I thought we would never see a new firmware for these cameras. But a few weeks ago I received a new rumor and it looks like the impossible will (finally) become possible. The Sony Santa Claus will make a (well deserved) present for every A850 and A900 owners!

UPDATE: Another source said that “there are 4 updates which will come to A850/900 firmware. Most of them is exposure compensation, AF performance and Release w/lens in menu option..”

There are three reasons why Sony releases the firmware:
1) To improve the autofocus performance and to give a big image quality boost! This is a major upgrade (I have been told). I hope this will bring the cameras closer to the Nikon D3X performance.
2) To push the christmas sales.
3) This is also a message to current users that Sony takes care of you and will support and soon expand the fullframe system!"

So let’s cross the finger and hope that the firmware will REALLY be announced soon and REALLY bring some major improvement! Thanks Sony!
Stay tuned on SonyAlphaRumors! I hope to get some more details soon…

 

[ptomsu]

Peter, Peter, Peter ... I'm sure your enthusiasm for Nikon is well founded.

Personally, I couldn't professionally justify a pair of $7,000. to $8,000. bodies against two A900s for less that half that investment. There are much better places to spend that capital. I had the D3X and nano coated lenses ... a very nice camera if you had the time to tease and tickle the files to get the most out of them ... where the A900 delivers it out of the camera most of the time, and has miles of data room to tease and tickle if you so wish ... which in my case is close to never needed, and even less desired.

I'd also agree that Nikon has made great strides in the lens department, and that Zeiss isn't an immediate guarantee of superior optics in comparison. However, every ZA lens is stabilized ... especially the workhorse lenses that put bread on the table, and "bread" in the bank account.
I'd disagree with your fervor for the 70-200 VR-II ... no visual evidence that it out performs the Sony 70-200/2.8APO.

Spend less, get more ... that's a camera statistic I favor over Brand wars and all that other internet opinionated nonsense. Leaves more cash for investment in stuff that DOES murder all 35mm DSLRs in IQ, or other photographic attributes ... the MFD gear, and Leica M goodies.

My 1¢ worth

-Marc

Marc,

I am pretty happy with my Nikon - and I cannot share what many others say - colors out of the box are perfect, as is WB as is exposure. So I can not understand what you were missing, but maybe this was with earlier FW. On the other side I must say that I always tweaked around color from my A900 images.

 

[ptomsu]

Funny, after all this time (and perhaps because an 850/900 replacement may be a ways off), i saw this the other day....well the whiners on DPReview have been clamoring for one.....

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-...on-oh-yes-sony-santa-claus-does-really-exist/

"And here I am again with the next A850/A900 firmware rumor. Sony was expected to release that firmware a few months ago but as I learned from my sources Sony had many problems with the “old” minolta software architecture of the A850/A900. I confess that I thought we would never see a new firmware for these cameras. But a few weeks ago I received a new rumor and it looks like the impossible will (finally) become possible. The Sony Santa Claus will make a (well deserved) present for every A850 and A900 owners!

UPDATE: Another source said that “there are 4 updates which will come to A850/900 firmware. Most of them is exposure compensation, AF performance and Release w/lens in menu option..”

There are three reasons why Sony releases the firmware:
1) To improve the autofocus performance and to give a big image quality boost! This is a major upgrade (I have been told). I hope this will bring the cameras closer to the Nikon D3X performance.
2) To push the christmas sales.
3) This is also a message to current users that Sony takes care of you and will support and soon expand the fullframe system!"

So let’s cross the finger and hope that the firmware will REALLY be announced soon and REALLY bring some major improvement! Thanks Sony!
Stay tuned on SonyAlphaRumors! I hope to get some more details soon…

Good signs, perfect.

But one thing I unfortunately will not happen - get near the AF performance of the D3X. This is simply not possible with the HW implementation of the A900. I would love to see an advanced AF from Sony in future models though.

If they really can bring their act together, that would mean a lot to the competition in the area of FF Pro DSLRs, which only can be good!

 

[ptomsu]

I just bought into this system with a 850, 24-70 and 135mm so it better not be going anywhere. LOL

Actually I need a good 200mm and trying to figure out a good solution for that. Gear slut strikes again. LOL

Guy,

hope you are happy with that gear! I had the 70-200 and this was a good lens, especially if you think how old that design is. I cannot say that the latest Nikkor 70-200 VRII would be better, I think they are pretty on par. And the Nikkor is s great performer.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I love the ergos' on this thing. In truth this is a shooters cam with regards to the layout. Obviously big and heavy compared to others in a sense but for 2k it is the cheapest FF out there so given that some things you just ignore. LOL

I did not want to go very deep financially into 35mm since my primary is MF but so far it seems very nice. I need to get out and shoot. I was planning on taking my son with the A33 and 850 up to a copper mining town and teach him a few things and shoot the 850. Hard to get a 13 year old in the car for the day and away from the X Box. LOL

 

[BackToSlr]

I just bought into this system with a 850, 24-70 and 135mm so it better not be going anywhere. LOL

Actually I need a good 200mm and trying to figure out a good solution for that. Gear slut strikes again. LOL

Guy,

For 200 mm i would highly recommend finding a used Minolta 200 f2.8 HS.

Cheers,

N

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I know been looking at it. They are all overseas in the HS. I'm very tempted as I need one in January for a gig

 

[BackToSlr]

I know been looking at it. They are all overseas in the HS. I'm very tempted as I need one in January for a gig

Ah! In case you haven't tried, Matsuiya Store, is pretty reliable.

I got mine from there a few years ago.

Cheers,

N

 

[dhsimmonds]

For 200 mm i would highly recommend finding a used Minolta 200 f2.8 HS.
N

As my back up cam is the A700, whenever I need a good fast 200 and prepared to sacrifice some Mpx, I put the Zeiss 135 on the 1.5 crop A700.....makes for a superb fast 200! The same would apply for the new A580 but I do not have one of those!

 

[MoJo]

guy, i think you will love the files out of the sony, wait till you see the skin tones, right out of the camera. i never have to do color adjustments, they are very natural looking colors.
-Josef