GF1/NEX-5 -- decision time

[JCT]

OK, I have a feeling that I know the answer to this one, but here goes.

Currently doing all of my "light" traveling (meaning that the D700 or LF is left behind) with my GH1. Almost always travel with the 14-140 + 20 + 7-14 set. A couple of weeks ago I had a little time to escape on a business trip to Italy and actually was fine with just the GH1 + 14-45 + 20 + 7-14.

I'm really very pleased with the performance of this gear and it's great to be able to always bring a good camera even when I have to travel extremely light.

I should add, by the way, that this is a stellar travel combo with an iPad -- shoot RAW+ JPG, transfer all to iPad, keep cards as "backup" and am usually confident enough to use the iPad to cull on the road -- import directly to LR when I return. Just works great.

So here's the deal. I have a G1 and it is not seeing any action as traveling with both G1/GH1 is just bulky enough that I don't do it. So G1 is probably going to be sold off.


What I *really* want is something noticeably smaller than my GH1 that will give me better IQ than my pocket travel cam (a TZ5 that is my "beater" and looks it), and has strong low light performance. Something that I can throw in my bag if I don't want to take the GH1. I guess short tele is fine or a fast prime for a lens.


Hence my dilemma. My practical side (not to mention my better half who will not find this amusing) says to sell the G1 with it's original kit lens and replace it with the GF1 + 14-45 + EVF (current good deal at B&H for $700 total)-- marry it to my 20mm and be done with it. Cost ~ 400 net I guess.

My gearhead side with endless GAS says to sell the G1 body (keeping the 14-45 because I do like it). And buy an NEX-5 + 18-55 , and an adapter for my PenF 38 1.8. Advantage of this, besides the general joy of new gear is that the low light performance is clearly excellent and it is definitely very small. If the 16mm pancake was a little better/more practical ( I really prefer the 40-50 focal length for a fast prime) I would go with that package instead, but I think it is too limiting for a single lens. I won't calculate the cost to avoid sadness.

Opinions? And yes, I suspect the first option is a no-brainer, but figured maybe someone could convince me otherwise...

Thanks all.

JT

 

[tom in mpls]

Good questions, JT, and no right or wrong answers. You might be interested in my recent thread that concerned my fairly similar dilemma.

 

[ptomsu]

Difficult indeed!

I own the EP2 and 2 lenses and love it. I bought the NEX5 this summer with 2 lenses (the kit) and the results are stunning. I would say technically better than the EP2, for sure at higher ISO.

BUT - I do like my EP2 more. Same might happen to you when you get the NEX5.

 

[jonoslack]

HI Graham
I've tried both combinations . . . and they both end up meaning that you need a small bag . . . and if you're going to carry a small bag . . .

Anyway, I've ended up with an A33 (couldn't get an A55 in time) with the nice Zeiss 16-80 zoom, and of course I can use all my existing Sony / Minolta A mount lenses if necessary.

What I realised is that any 28 - 90 (ish) lens is really too small a range, meaning carrying a wide and a tele to go with it. but a 24-120 equivalent is okay - and it means I don't need to carry anything else - and the user experience is so much more pleasant as well (of course that may be me).

 

[s.agar]

I used GF-1 before I bought the NEX-3 based on written specifications.

Both cameras are excellent. I think NEX has a lot more technically, like slightly better high ISO performance, panorama, noise elimination, and a bigger sensor with slightly more resolution.

But the 7-14mm and 14-45mm lenses of Panasonic are excellent. Sony kit lenses (I have both) are not up to that standard at all. So, I prefer to use the NEX with Leica lenses. Then you start to lose some of the technical advances.

The Camera JPG photos of the GF1 "I think" are better than the soft, lower resolution photos of NEX. But I always start from RAW, so it's not a big concern for me. But it may be important for you.

If I were you, I would keep the Panasonic lenses, and change only the camera body to GF-1. Then, Sony, with this pace would probably make a few more better firmware and lenses, and possibly cameras, and that may be the time to switch.

If you are interested to see some samples from NEX with the kit lens, you may see my post at:
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19425

 

[Vivek]

Wait for the Nex 7 or 11.

 

[Mark K]

I am confused. What lenses are you using with D700? Are these really D700 with 14-140, 20/2.8, 7-14 etc
How come an iPad being used as a backup with 64Gb? Are you shooting jpg only?
My understanding is the upcoming CF cards this year will start from 64Gb
I will consider having a 14-24/2.8, 24-70/2.8 to replace my old Nikon lenses
I understand also that there is a possibility my Nex 5 will get an electronic adaptor to my current mechanical one for Nikon lenses

OK, I have a feeling that I know the answer to this one, but here goes.

Currently doing all of my "light" traveling (meaning that the D700 or LF is left behind) with my GH1. Almost always travel with the 14-140 + 20 + 7-14 set. A couple of weeks ago I had a little time to escape on a business trip to Italy and actually was fine with just the GH1 + 14-45 + 20 + 7-14.

I'm really very pleased with the performance of this gear and it's great to be able to always bring a good camera even when I have to travel extremely light.

I should add, by the way, that this is a stellar travel combo with an iPad -- shoot RAW+ JPG, transfer all to iPad, keep cards as "backup" and am usually confident enough to use the iPad to cull on the road -- import directly to LR when I return. Just works great.

So here's the deal. I have a G1 and it is not seeing any action as traveling with both G1/GH1 is just bulky enough that I don't do it. So G1 is probably going to be sold off.


What I *really* want is something noticeably smaller than my GH1 that will give me better IQ than my pocket travel cam (a TZ5 that is my "beater" and looks it), and has strong low light performance. Something that I can throw in my bag if I don't want to take the GH1. I guess short tele is fine or a fast prime for a lens.


Hence my dilemma. My practical side (not to mention my better half who will not find this amusing) says to sell the G1 with it's original kit lens and replace it with the GF1 + 14-45 + EVF (current good deal at B&H for $700 total)-- marry it to my 20mm and be done with it. Cost ~ 400 net I guess.

My gearhead side with endless GAS says to sell the G1 body (keeping the 14-45 because I do like it). And buy an NEX-5 + 18-55 , and an adapter for my PenF 38 1.8. Advantage of this, besides the general joy of new gear is that the low light performance is clearly excellent and it is definitely very small. If the 16mm pancake was a little better/more practical ( I really prefer the 40-50 focal length for a fast prime) I would go with that package instead, but I think it is too limiting for a single lens. I won't calculate the cost to avoid sadness.

Opinions? And yes, I suspect the first option is a no-brainer, but figured maybe someone could convince me otherwise...

Thanks all.

JT

 

[JCT]

There's a reason this is my favorite photo forum -- awesome, thoughtful advice. :thumbs: I've really gone back and forth quite a bit and that GF1 deal at B&H is quite good.

Oh Tom-- it was *your* thread that sent me down this road! I had originally figured I would just swap out for the GF1.

I must say I am a bit jealous of you guys on the all-Sony path, it really sounds nice to share lenses between the 2 systems. jonoslack, yes, that is my favorite range as well -- next purchase for the D700 is the new 24-120 (been waiting for a "good" version of that tele for YEARS).

Great points about the high quality of the Panasonic lenses that I have, I completely agree, this is something that held me back from just selling my original G1 as a kit, and picking up the NEX-5. I remain very happy with the 14-45, it fills a great niche and I don't want to give it up.

s.agar -- wonderful input, yes, it sounds like you did what I am thinking of doing. I will dig through your pics, thanks for the link.

Hah, Vivek-- as always I have been following your threads, you clearly enjoy your G system as much as I do. I, however, almost never do street shooting. but your point is well taken regarding a wait. Because yes, if the next version came in with a fast prime in a "better" focal length this would be a no-brainer.

Clarification for Mark:

No-- my D700 is my main camera and I have a very nice collection of glass for it that I have amassed over 20 years. This is my go-to camera that always goes with me on major vacations and outings. Unfortunately those are few and far between at present and I bought into the m4/3s system so that I could take a good camera with me when I travel for business. I am usually very constrained on these trips -- 2 bags max including computer, so the D700 is a no-go.

And the iPad? I always travel with this as well, in general, I do not transfer D700 shots to it unless I am curious as to how they are turning out. For the GH1 it's fantastic -- I dump the card onto the iPad (both RAW/jpg transfer, only the jpg is accessible) -- I then put the SD aside until I get home. I review, enjoy and sometimes email the pics from the ipad while I am away and also cull. At home, I attach the iPad to my Mac, import via Lightroom and I'm done -- BOTH RAW/jpg transfer from the iPad to the main machine unchanged. If all is well, the SDs are formatted for the next trip. Does this help?

Hmmmmm. Starting to feel like the GF1 is inevitable. The funny thing that is holding me back is that last year I went through a similar back and forth when I was deciding about the GH1. Was originally going to go with a G1 + GF1 pair-- went down to B&H NO LESS than 3 times ready to buy the GF1 and backed out because it felt too big. Maybe I'll have a different response in this situation.

Actually, here's a question! Anyone want to weigh in on whether there is any real difference between the two when used as a semi- point & shoot?

Funny how personal this decision can be. And somewhat frustrating! :banghead:

JT

 

[douglasf13]

FWIW, the 16mm isn't a bad little lens. Razor sharp in the center wide open, and acceptable in the corners at f5.6-ish. My personal go everywhere kit is the 16mm, a CV 35/1.4, and one of my various slr 50/1.4 lenses.

 

[Vivek]

JT,

I like the Sony 16mm f/2.8 lens. Even after dropping it (from about 1.5meters, it had a rubber collapsible hood on it) on a concrete floor, it works.

Only issue with that is that I find it best used with a polarizer on it.

I continue to maintain (contrary to some Sony aficionados) that NEX has to evolve from being a great sensor to a camera that would be of much use.

Hence my suggestion.

Obviously, your requirement may vary and the likings or dislikings differ.

 

[JCT]

Hi Vivek!

Yes, as you are one of the folks who has extensively used both I have been watching your impressions. Actually, one of the earliest comments regarding the NEX-5 set me back a bit (that is is a great "digital back") and is seemingly in agreement with your appraisal that Sony has some refining to do.

Quite frankly, after the initial impressions when it was first released I dismissed the NEX-5 out of hand -- menu fiddling drives me nuts. And I certainly wouldn't make a purchase until the new firmware came out and was tested.

That is nice to hear about the 16mm (quality, not the drop -- I recently had a very expensive lens flip off my LF camera when I was in a stream, luckily I was standing to the side and managed to do a full half-gainer and save it before it hit the water, but I was pretty bruised up! My teenaged son said the sight of me fully submerged with my arm holding the lens above the water was priceless. Lucky boy that I didn't bop him with that lens after his quip).

I think in the end I will probably be conservative and flip the G1 to a GF1, a switch that will make good sense, but maybe be less "fun". I guess as soon as the holidays are over I will make yet another pilgrimage to B&H for a hands-on.

JT

 

[Terry]

Or simply buy my GF1 body only being sold at a very reasonable price and sell your G1 picking it up for not much. While the EVF on the GF1 is useful it isn't nearly as good at the G1's so not sure I would buy it immediately. I haven't put my EVF up for sale right now because I picked up an LX5 and it works on that camera (although I'm not convinced that I would use it that way.

I've figured out why between the GF1 and the NEX 5 why I enjoy shooting the NEX so much and it comes down to the way I hold it. With the NEX I generally tilt the screen upwards and hold the camera much lower instead of out in front of me. I generally hold the lens with my left hand under it.

The NEX5 won't save you much space with the kit zoom vs. the GF1. A pancake prime will. However if I had to pick one combo GF1 + 20 or NEX5 +16, the GF1 would win for me as it is more flexible. If you are happy with your GH1 kit then adding the NEX just doubles up lenses chargers etc. I added NEX because I was shooting Sony DSLR.

 

[tom in mpls]

I think in the end I will probably be conservative and flip the G1 to a GF1, a switch that will make good sense, but maybe be less "fun". I guess as soon as the holidays are over I will make yet another pilgrimage to B&H for a hands-on.

Starting from your current setup, that does seem eminently sensible.

 

[barjohn]

It is sensible until you get into a low light situation where the NEX clearly outshines the GF1 or G1. I find the NEX with the Leica/Minolta ROKKOR 40/2 and excellent combo that produces very sharp images.

Attached is a quick snap taken of my better half in her school jersey taken in a hurry as she was off to teach and celebrate their achievement as the highest scoring school in the district. I have added a close up so you can see how sharp the lens is. This is the JPG out of the camera with only WB adjustment. I used the flash for fill as I had no time to set up lighting or anything because she was in a hurry and running late. The important thing is to see what the lens can produce on the NEX.

 

[JCT]

Starting from your current setup, that does seem eminently sensible.

Sigh. I know. All day long I have to be "sensible". Oh well .

Yup, barjohn -- impressive. The low-light performance was definitely part of the original attraction of the NEX-5.


YIKES! Terry -- medium format?? Hah, that is probably why you like using the pseudo-waist level NEX-5 LCD. One of my favorite cameras for pure shooting is my TLR. And absolutely it makes great sense to be able to share lenses within the Sony system! Holy cow, I just saw your listing -- wow, so much nice gear. I'll chew on the GF1, I almost never buy digital cameras used, but I certainly trust you. Might be the way to go, hopefully won't be too difficult to sell the G1 body.

Oh, and Terry, I assume you know that after MF comes LF... went that way for me....

 

[Terry]

Oh, and Terry, I assume you know that after MF comes LF... went that way for me....

Ummmm that happened concurrently with a tech camera which I equate to LF gear.

View attachment 36087

 

[JCT]

Hah! Awesome -- it's 6x9 right? That's a great format, I've long considered getting the least expensive Ebony 6x9 to fiddle with.

That tech is the ultimate "wonks" camera -- I remember seeing one at PhotoExpo a few years back. That will be something else paired to your Cube and a great digital back. Will be a blast to wander around the Bay area with that rig.

One of my favorite things about the bigger formats is the enforced "slo-mo" approach, kind of therapeutic!

Really cool.

 

[Terry]

Hah! Awesome -- it's 6x9 right? That's a great format, I've long considered getting the least expensive Ebony 6x9 to fiddle with.

That tech is the ultimate "wonks" camera -- I remember seeing one at PhotoExpo a few years back. That will be something else paired to your Cube and a great digital back. Will be a blast to wander around the Bay area with that rig.

One of my favorite things about the bigger formats is the enforced "slo-mo" approach, kind of therapeutic!

Really cool.

Which is EXACTLY why I got it. I do fast stuff with m4/3 and NEX and wanted to do more thoughtful slo-mo

 

[JCT]

Which is EXACTLY why I got it. I do fast stuff with m4/3 and NEX and wanted to do more thoughtful slo-mo

This will definitely do it -- but it's a real solitary pursuit. I can't even get my daughter to go with me when I shoot LF and she's a pretty serious film shooter!

Personally I find it to be a great way to get "alone" time. Was in Yosemite this summer with my husband and son and I was able to negotiate some nice LF time by sending them off on a fly-fishing adventure. All I have to say is "who wants to go LF shooting with me and they run off!

Enjoy that sweet gear.

 

[barjohn]

I blame it all on Terry. Before she pronounced it I was happy being oblivious to the fact that I am a gear head. Now, I have had to face the truth and can no longer deny it. I'm like the alcoholic that was sneaking around with a bottle at work and is finally caught and has to admit what he is. My slogan/signature shall hence forth shall be IAAGH (I Am A Gear Head).