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Sony SLT - EVF , what's the point?.

Eoin

Member
I took delivery of the a55 last week and this weekend past was the first real chance I had to use it.

While the camera it's self is very capable in terms of image quality and the video function seems fine, I'm left with the impression that this generation of SLT is not a practical replacement for the SLR.

I'm surprised by the blackout length in the viewfinder once you take a picture, there is a significant time delay between shutter button press, view finder blackout and then actual exposure.

It's just a comment, but for me the quality of the EVF leaves a lot to be desired in terms of image quality, colour and movement streaks reproduction. There is no way IMO this in it's current guise can replace the superb optical quality and speed of the a900's viewfinder.

Yet the camera it's self is very usable, and my better half loves the lightness and it's ease of use. For me the a55 is like a throwback to point & shoots with their LCD screen and shutter lag, the subject has moved by the time the image is taken and the image review is not exactly what I had in mind when the shutter was released.

I really can't see how Sony can introduce this into it's top flight SLR bodies (a77 & A9X) without upsetting it's current userbase.

Any one agree?.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I took delivery of the a55 last week and this weekend past was the first real chance I had to use it.

While the camera it's self is very capable in terms of image quality and the video function seems fine, I'm left with the impression that this generation of SLT is not a practical replacement for the SLR.

I'm surprised by the blackout length in the viewfinder once you take a picture, there is a significant time delay between shutter button press, view finder blackout and then actual exposure.

It's just a comment, but for me the quality of the EVF leaves a lot to be desired in terms of image quality, colour and movement streaks reproduction. There is no way IMO this in it's current guise can replace the superb optical quality and speed of the a900's viewfinder.

Yet the camera it's self is very usable, and my better half loves the lightness and it's ease of use. For me the a55 is like a throwback to point & shoots with their LCD screen and shutter lag, the subject has moved by the time the image is taken and the image review is not exactly what I had in mind when the shutter was released.

I really can't see how Sony can introduce this into it's top flight SLR bodies (a77 & A9X) without upsetting it's current userbase.

Any one agree?.
No - interestingly - it's the first LCD camera I've ever had where the image IS what I had in mind when I pressed the shutter. You don't have auto-review on do you? I really had looked for, and failed to notice any shutter lag.

I do agree that it's nothing like as nice to look through as the A900 viewfinder - but I've found that the trade off of knowing what the exposure is actually going to be like is sometimes a reasonable one.

I must say that if I find that I'm not getting what I'm shooting, It'll be right off to ebay - but that's certainly not the impression I'm getting at the moment (I will agree that the blackout seems unnecessarily long, but my impression is that it's after the exposure rather than during it).

I also found that the tracking on AFC is considerably better than it is on the A900 (zooming around 9 month old sheepdog is probably the ultimate test!)


. . . . but to answer your question, the point is (as far as I can see)
1. to be able to make a small camera body with a reasonable size viewfinder (try looking through those nasty dark tunnels in the other small slrs)
2. to be able to continue focusing with phase detect at all times.
3. not to have the shake associated with flapping mirrors
4. being able to see exposure and histogram results in the viewfinder

Whether it's worth it is a different issue I guess
 

Eoin

Member
Hi Jono,

No, auto review is off. Perhaps there is a slight difference between the a33 and a55 but there appears to be a somewhat longer lag at shutter release and an eternity of difference between the EVF returning and the mirror return on the a900.

I'm not complaining, it is what it is, a first generation of this technology in DSLR. I just feel it's really not there yet as a viable replacement for semi pro optical view finders. And unless the a77 or a9X have a dramatic improvement in resolution, colour and speed, Sony may well shoot themselves in the foot with regard to semi pro / pro users if they introduce it as is.

Absolutely, the histogram in the EVF is a useful tool, AFC focus tracking is much improved, but the colours and resolution of the EVF make it almost impossible to judge exposure IMO. Perhaps more time with it will train my eye, but in the mean time the Histogram is very useful in regard to judging realtime exposure.

Either way, it will be kept for the very function it was bought for, video with my existing Sony lenses that I can't fault as I didn't have any pre conceived ideas other than I could.

So for $800 the a55 is perfect, I just can't see EVF being successful in it's big brothers.
 

Terry

New member
I think what you need to keep in mind is comparing and optical viewfinder vs. the evf of two similar sized cameras. Sure the A900 viewfinder is beautiful and is one of the largest in any dslr. However, most of the smaller dslrs have small tunnel like viewfinders to keep the overall size small. In comparison to those the A55 looks much better.

As for lag or blackout I haven't used it enough to have an opinion yet but I'm used to m4/3 and other EVF based cameras and I don't find the A55 objectionable compared to those.
 

tom in mpls

Active member
I am now in my second week of our trip to Israel and Turkey with my A55 and Zeıss 16 to 8o mm lens

unfortunately thıs computer ıs set to turkısh keys so ı cannot fınd zero dash comma or perıod please forgıve

ı have found the camera a joy to use ıt ıs very fast to locate changes to settıngs and ıt ıs very responsıve

the vıewfınder ıs plus mınus ıt ıs true you cannot rely on ıt to judge exposure

overall ı am greatly pleased ı saw someone wıth a canon 5d and 28 t0 75 f2poınt8 and was so glad that ı was not luggıng that wıth me

edit: whoopee! i'm a mac guy, and am using a hotel p.c. finally got it to change keyboard. I will be able to write more clearly but have decided to leave the mess above as is. i do not like working on p.c.
 
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ecsh

New member
Also there really is no point comparing this viewfinder to the 900 one at a mere 2k difference in price. I know what you are saying about putting this in future high end cameras, but they have not done that yet have they? And when they do, we will have to see if there really is any improvement, but too many people forget its not a high end camera. YMMV
Joe
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Jono,

No, auto review is off. Perhaps there is a slight difference between the a33 and a55 but there appears to be a somewhat longer lag at shutter release and an eternity of difference between the EVF returning and the mirror return on the a900.

I'm not complaining, it is what it is, a first generation of this technology in DSLR. I just feel it's really not there yet as a viable replacement for semi pro optical view finders.
I suppose the difference is that the first use ours got was at a wedding (we got it as a backstop in case the A900 failed). Emma and I both used it, and the results are just great - and really, although the viewfinder blackout is long after the exposure, it certainly doesn't seem to have any obvious shutter lag.
I can honestly say, that in dreadful light on a wet October late afternoon in the rain (it all started at 4.30) there wasn't a single shot out of a hundred or so that was not technically adequate.

Joe - I take your point about the price, but in my experience (only a couple of thousand shots at standard settings), this camera really doesn't need excuses made for it - the viewfinder certainly isn't as 'nice' as that of the A900 (nor is the build quality), but it seems to work really well. . . . . and it's got to find a place around here between the A900 and the M9, something that all the m4/3 and NEX cameras have really failed to to.
We have shots at 12800 ISO which have made really nice black and white prints.

I think the deal is that you have to just set it up sensibly and let go . . . P mode / auto ISO / auto WB / seems to do the business.

. . . and we now have an A55 as well
 

tom in mpls

Active member
I think the deal is that you have to just set it up sensibly and let go . . . P mode / auto ISO / auto WB / seems to do the business.
Yes, I am probably shooting 95% of the time at these settings.

I have seen one person at our hotel with the NEX and kit zoom. I'd rather have my A55.
 

Eoin

Member
Ok, perhaps I'm being a little miss understood, or haven't got my point across.

I accept the VF of the a900 is rather good. But so were all my analogue Canons of yesteryear.

The a55 is new, relatively inexpensive, has old/new technology (SLT) and does everything in the image department rather well, in fact it's quite a remarkable package and so light with the kit 16-55 lens that Jan (my other half) shuns the heft of the a900 now.

But in all honesty guys, if the next generation of Sony ProSumer Bodies like the rumored a77 or a9X have this EVF, would you be happy with it as a replacement to the OVF?.

I just don't think it's quite ready yet.
 

jonoslack

Active member
But in all honesty guys, if the next generation of Sony ProSumer Bodies like the rumored a77 or a9X have this EVF, would you be happy with it as a replacement to the OVF?.

I just don't think it's quite ready yet.
But - I understand what you're saying about analogue cameras of yesteryear, and I don't understand why nobody can make something the size of an OM1 with a viewfinder to match, but it would seem that they can't, and if you go and look down the tunnels of some other small dSLR's, then these little EVF's are a huge improvement.

I'm not sure what I'd think of one in an A99 - but I think I could live with it if it meant that the camera was OM sized. But a couple of weeks of light use is no timescale to compare with something one has used for years.

Incidentally - I've been doing some more testing with the shutter lag you were complaining about, and I don't think it's bad at all - the viewfinder blackout is longer than I'd like, but then I don't shoot sport. Do you still think the shutter lag is bad?
 

picman

Member
But in all honesty guys, if the next generation of Sony ProSumer Bodies like the rumored a77 or a9X have this EVF, would you be happy with it as a replacement to the OVF?.

I just don't think it's quite ready yet.
Totally agree too!
 

roweraay

New member
But in all honesty guys, if the next generation of Sony ProSumer Bodies like the rumored a77 or a9X have this EVF, would you be happy with it as a replacement to the OVF?.

I just don't think it's quite ready yet.
I understand exactly what you are talking about. But having said that, you should not be comparing the EVF on the A55 to the OVF on the A900. You should really be comparing the A55's EVF to the OVF on products like the Canon Rebels, the Nikon D60s and the Sony A230/550 type products.....and if you do so, the 100% EVF on the A55 does have redeeming features over the OVFs in these competitive products.

Also, Toru Katsumoto (the Sony head honcho of their Imaging division) was pretty clear on what the A7x would bring. He stated that it would be specced FAR above the A33/55.....he really stressed the word "FAR". I don't doubt that the A77's viewfinder (whether it be an EVF, or OVF or a hybrid of some sort) would be fully satisfactory for its target audience.:)

A guy who beta-tests upcoming Sony high-end equipment, dropped hints that the A77 is a product that will not leave anyone wanting.....and is also sized similarly to the current A700 (or A900). ;)
 

jonoslack

Active member
A guy who beta-tests upcoming Sony high-end equipment, dropped hints that the A77 is a product that will not leave anyone wanting.....and is also sized similarly to the current A700 (or A900). ;)
Then it'll certainly leave me wanting . . .It'll leave me wanting a camera which has a professional specification and build quality in a small case - there is absolutely nothing like this on the market (the closest I guess is the Pentax K5).
Why not? is it because we all want our tools to be HUGE tools?
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I'd have to agree.

I think the camera is a toy ... barrels of sloshing fun ... something new to goof around with ... carnival side-show features to wow the P&S bystanders ... a decent AF companion to the M9 mostly because it fits in the bag and the A900 doesn't ;)

The shutter lag is not terribly horrible ... but the black out took me by surprise ... which sucks, and makes the camera about as serious as a VW full of clowns.

Image quality stands out when plopped into a series of wedding photos ... as in "stands out" in the wrong way. Takes waaaaaaaaay to much work in post to get them
up to printable quality that my clients expect ... but quite frankly, I didn't expect it to bark with the big dogs ... and who would?

It's a video game, something to goof around with and experience the new technology. This is a good thing, because it sends up the red flag about how far away that technology is yet. Put that stuff in a big dog Sony any time soon, and I'll gallop the other way.

IMO, the NEX is the better toy. It isn't pretending to be a serious tool :ROTFL:

Both are the most fun for the money in a long time. Truly entertaining.

-Marc
 

Terry

New member
Marc,
Are you really saying that if you put your best Sony lenses on either the A55 or NEX that the IQ negatively stands out from you A900?
 

Eoin

Member
. . .It'll leave me wanting a camera which has a professional specification and build quality in a small case....
Your Leica M9 has really spoilt you Jono. :ROTFL:

And here's me thinking the a900 was rather compact as far as FF dSLR's go. That is of course until you put a Zeiss lens on it and it becomes a monster. :D.

I've been playing around today with the a55 and I must correct myself with regards to my comments regarding shutter delay. You are correct it is almost instantaneous. :talk028:. I guess I was confused somewhat with the dark time in the EVF at exposure.:eek:
 

Eoin

Member
I understand exactly what you are talking about. But having said that, you should not be comparing the EVF on the A55 to the OVF on the A900.....snip
roweraay, I'm not comparing, it is what it is for $800. I'm asking, if sony put this or a better version of it into it's top line cameras, how would you feel about losing the OVF for an EVF?.

Personally, I can't see the technology being up to the standard now or any time soon to replace OVF. I do hope I'm proved wrong.
 

roweraay

New member
Then it'll certainly leave me wanting . . .It'll leave me wanting a camera which has a professional specification and build quality in a small case - there is absolutely nothing like this on the market (the closest I guess is the Pentax K5).
Why not? is it because we all want our tools to be HUGE tools?
Oh, I am completely with you on this. I like small/compact and will take a reduction in size/weight, over a product that can be used to hammer nails with, but is large/heavy/bulky.

However, having said that, there are dozens of people posting in various forums on how the A55 is too small to hold onto and so on, and thus it was a deal-killer for them. I personally find the A55 "right sized" for what it is. If it could be made any more lighter/slimmer, while retaining all of its other controls, I am all for it.

When I hand over my A900 (+CZ24-70 or CZ135 etc) to my wife, she shrinks backward, not only for its weight but also since she has to compose using the OVF (something she has never acclimated to, having been used to p&s products). When I hand over my A900 to a waiter at a restaurant and ask him/her to take a group picture of the folks at our table, they have no idea even how to use it, let alone getting a passably decent shot.

When the A55 (shod with say a 170gms 35mm f/1.8 or a 230gms Minolta 24mm f/2.8) is handed over to my wife, she loves it and knows exactly how to make it sing ! Hand it to a waiter at a restaurant and even the dimmest of them can use it intuitively, by composing on the "live-view" screen.
 

roweraay

New member
Personally, I can't see the technology being up to the standard now or any time soon to replace OVF. I do hope I'm proved wrong.
I believe an A7x will definitely have a VF that will meet the needs of its market, based on the hints from the Sony beta tester....I expect some kind of a hybrid EVF/OVF that combines the best elements of both an EVF and OVF, but don't know how they will implement it, yet.
 
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