Sony 850 NOISE TEST

[Guy Mancuso]

Morning everyone . I thought I would do a series of noise tests on the new firmware installed since this is my high ISO event / PR type cam for me to use. Be nice to know where I sit on this and see how it does. Now I am processing all of mine in C1 and the First image posted here is balanced under tungsten and camera set for that. The next two images are set for daylight with tungsten as the mix. Both very typical situations we run into as wedding shooters and as PR shooters. Why tungsten you ask . Very simply I test for the worst situation you can hit and tungsten is the worst when it comes to high ISO and noise. ISO 1600 in daylight with nice light is very nice , but really who cares that is not when you need high ISO but under this crap light we have to deal with sometimes.

Now My 850 tends to be underexposed here slightly so give the noise just a little extra credit since I am slightly pushing the mid tones which I did in these three scenes . The good news folks is i posted all the raws so YOU can play with your processing and see for yourself. I test for you folks and give you the chance to learn it for yourself on your machines and you raw processing programs. Now in this test all i did was WB each scene and than added a very slight base sharpening to all of them C1 folks I used soft sharpen 1. Very important here C1 does change the noise parameters for each ISO and you will see that when you bring it in your program. Trust me it is not the best defaults either and i have comes up with a really nice style you can create for ISO 800 and 1600 which I will give out later and it really tames the beast very nicely. For now you can find the raws here on my .me account Sony 850 Noise test. I went 200,400,800,1600 and 3200.

One note I think Sony did work on noise but left that data out on the firmware notes. At least it looks better to me and with the style it is damn good at 1600.

Raws are here http://idisk.mac.com/guymancuso-Public?view=web


All are ISO 200 posted for now
This is strictly tungsten setting

This is daylight setting daylight coming from left and tungsten fill

This is daylight setting daylight coming from right and tungsten fill

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay at the defaults for noise and such.

here we go

NOTE: ISO 400 is a touch soft , maybe me as I was not using a remote cable

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay went back and reprocessed ISO 800,1600 and 3200 to these adjustments in C1.

Now i am not set in stone on my adjustments but it should not deviate much from what I posted here.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

If anything I could go a little higher in color noise but this will also depend on scene as well but I am pretty happy with ISO 1600 and i will never get to 3200 and rarely will I hit 1600. My magic number is ISO 800 and that is more standard for me.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

This is the 135mm lens wide open at ISO 1600 F1.8. I wanted to see how fast the AF was and it is deadly quick now. These are all handheld and I 'm pretty damn impressed. This is WHY you buy the Sony system is this lens. LOL

Nothing great here but interesting

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Question Guy, if this is to be your high iso camera but you don't need over iso 1600, why not just stick to sensor plus?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

GREAT question. Honestly I could and it is better but I don't always want to take the Phase out as well. Something I have avoided was the 35mm cams with sensor plus but I also realized too that running around with 25k in my hand is not always a good thing and some jobs I don't want to take that risk. Also the Sony does give me a nice backup system to the Phase which i really did not have anything that good to cover Phase being repaired or whatever. Here is the other thing not everything requires the Phase and rather save that system for when it does and seriously I have less than 5k in this and if i drop it, lose it or it gets stolen. No big deal I won't cry but I will over the Phase. LOL

But you are certainly correct i really do not need this over sensor plus quality wise . Sensor plus maybe 10 mpx on my P40+ but acts more like 15 mpx cams. 9 mpx won't mean much in difference with this type of work. Its small anyway

Also 35mm is more versatile as we all know. This thing is quick handling and easy to shoot

 

[jonoslack]

But you are certainly correct i really do not need this over sensor plus quality wise . Sensor plus maybe 10 mpx on my P40+ but acts more like 15 mpx cams. 9 mpx won't mean much in difference with this type of work. Its small anyway

Also 35mm is more versatile as we all know. This thing is quick handling and easy to shoot

I'm interested - so are you saying that the 10mpx sensor plus on the P40+ is better than the 24mp from the A850? Sure, I can believe that looking at 100% crop it may be, but say if you want to print at 24x16?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

It acts more like a 15 mpx but no it can't get to the full res for printing like the Sony. One nice thing is the Sony can be a fine backup for the 40mpx back and that was part of my buy decision. But this PR stuff only really needs around 12 mpx so I could on the Sony drop in to that 11mpx setting or just down rez when processing which is more likely what i will do. The Sony is a up for PR and a good backdown for the P40+. Nice balance

 

[mazor]

Nice work Guy, from what I have read the high Iso performance from the A850 should be pretty much identical to the A900?


What alpha glass have you got for this baby?

maz

 

[fotografz]

Question Guy, if this is to be your high iso camera but you don't need over iso 1600, why not just stick to sensor plus?

I'll answer that also Ben ...

If you are in light requiring ISO 800, 1600+, a A/850-A900 or Nikon/Canon will "generally" focus faster using the center focus point ... especially on moving subjects. The MFDs have gotten a lot better with auto focusing, but in challenging light, the 35mm DSLRs still rule.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

I'm interested - so are you saying that the 10mpx sensor plus on the P40+ is better than the 24mp from the A850? Sure, I can believe that looking at 100% crop it may be, but say if you want to print at 24x16?

Jono, all these backs are 16 bit color depth and no heavy sensor filtration ... and I may be wrong here, but I'd assume the Sensor Plus retains that 16 bit data, just pixel Bins. Plus the sensor is much larger on the MFD ... sort of like the older 16 and 22 meg backs with the fat pixels ... which still out perform any 35mm DSLR when it comes to IQ.

-Marc

 

[fotografz]

Okay, I know this is a noise test ... but I want to echo what Guy mentioned regarding the AF improvement.

Did a family shoot yesterday in some pretty dreary interior light. Even though there were veiled windows, it was very grey and dull outside, so the windows didn't help much.

Subjects were a 6 month old with fleeting expressions like you wouldn't believe, and she was a hyper wiggle worm ... and ... a dog ... sometimes together !!!!

I shot some stuff with the H4D/40 which is pretty quick AF ... but it got so kenitic that it was much wiser to use the A900 ... especially when the light even got lower and flatter in another room

Both the 85/1.4 and 135/1.8 are now much faster AF with the new firmware, and still as accurate as before. :thumbs:

IMO, this A900 now seems just as fast as my previous Canons and Nikons. Time will tell, but I've shot in circumstances like this a zillion times, and you just know when something is better than it was before.

IMO, this is more important than a slightly better ISO performance ... which it also seems to have. I can deal with noise in post, but I can't do anything if I miss the shot. In fact, it may be pure luck, but I didn't miss a single shot yesterday.

Here's a couple shots ... most of the time the baby had a dead-pan expression which would suddenly change, then change back to dead-pan ... while she was squirming around :ROTFL: The dog is a Japanese Shiba Inu and was done with the H4D/40 and 100/2.2

Thanks Sony!!!!!!!!

Marc

 

[Shelby Lewis]

This thread, too, gives me pause... (lol)

 

[MoJo]

Marc, I love those sony colors..... nothing like them in SLR world, so natural......

Shelby, I remember those gorgeous Sony shots you used to to do........ sigh.......

 

[jonoslack]

Marc, I love those sony colors..... nothing like them in SLR world, so natural......

Shelby, I remember those gorgeous Sony shots you used to to do........ sigh.......

+1 to both of those - and then there's the 135 f1.8 :toocool:

 

[dhsimmonds]

+1 to both of those - and then there's the 135 f1.8 :toocool:

+2 also...... and then Jono there's that 16-35 Zeiss which is also a dream to use!

Also agree with Marc, the new firmware has now produced very fast AF without spoiling in any way the accuracy for which the A900 is renowned....and that's testing it from focusing at 70mm FL then zooming to 400 and refocusing that big lens again. It is now near instantaneous. The 200-500 is exactly the same.:ROTFL:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Nice work Guy, from what I have read the high Iso performance from the A850 should be pretty much identical to the A900?


What alpha glass have you got for this baby?

maz

I have the 24-70 and 135 Zeiss but looking for the Minolta 200mm 2.8

I may get a 20mm at some point also

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Jono, all these backs are 16 bit color depth and no heavy sensor filtration ... and I may be wrong here, but I'd assume the Sensor Plus retains that 16 bit data, just pixel Bins. Plus the sensor is much larger on the MFD ... sort of like the older 16 and 22 meg backs with the fat pixels ... which still out perform any 35mm DSLR when it comes to IQ.

-Marc

Exactly Marc we are starting with big sensor just binning it down in pixels. Same look just smaller file

 

[Shelby Lewis]

Thanks guys... oh how I miss those sony colors, ergos, and the sharpness/bokeh of that 135/1.8

I'd love to have the ZA 24/2, siggy 50/1.4, za 85/1.4, za 135/1.8 and the old minolta HS 200/2.8G as a kit. Fantastic stuff.

I've not given up on Sony just yet. I don't shoot weddings for a canon-based studio anymore... so I'm now toying with the idea of offloading my canon stuff and picking up a minimal sony setup for my 35mm "kit of choice". Anyone interested in a 5Dmkii, a few lenses and some flashes :ROTFL:

(seriously?)

Guy and Marc... thanks for the samples. This new firmware truly looks to have done some great things for an already great camera.