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Sony A77

pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
ptomsu said:
and market share cannot be earned by bringing out big number of new and in fact useless camera models, .......
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Sorry, but I don't agree and find it even elitist and offensive.

+ first: the market for low/medium end models is far bigger then the market for so called "advanced amateurs" you find on these fora. So market share is driven by the 200/300/500 series (incl. the SLT's), not by the A700 and FF's
+ second: useless for you doesn't mean useless for everybody.

I agree Sony is slow catering for the future of the "advanced amateurs" without a clear roadmap for FF as well as a very slow A700 replacement, but I don't blame them for what they have done for the (much bigger) bottom of the pyramid.
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
t_streng said:
Hi Jono,
I know it has been discussed before and I think to understand advantages and disadvantages of both EVF and OVF but personally I am still not a fan of EVF. Even if there are many pluses I feel disconnected from the subject and the real world with an EVF. I think (and hope for Sony useres) that Sony should offer both options in the future.
Of course medium format is a high premium price, and also much slower cameras, but besides IQ itself there is also one other advantage - a big and bright viewfinder which allows to judge focus without additional magnification.

Having said this from the limited experience I have with the A900 this camera has a great viewfinder as well and great IQ. If I was a Sony guy I wonder if I wanted to replace the A900 with an A77.
IMO High ISO are overrated anyways. If one has good and fast glass one can do quite a bit even with ISO 640 and lower.
But lets see what it really is.
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HI Tom
Whilst I quite agree about the big bright viewfinders and the troubles with EVF, I've never heard anyone saying that's what they're using MF for. I wonder how good an EVF has to be before one ceases to feel disconnected? Added to which, there has been talk of the A99 having an optical option as well (have to wait and see)

Practice is another issue, as is general ergonomics, and of course, much of this is personal.

My point really was that if something which filled the bill technically for almost all situations was available in a reasonably sized package, then it would become increasingly difficult to get people to pay 15 times as much for something which added quality (but quality which one mostly didn't need), but removed functionality, and at that point the price differential will get even bigger.

Sony don't really have the lenses to take over from Canikon yet, but I can see the A77 taking over from the Canon 5D and Nikon 700 for that vast horde of middle of the road wedding and event photographers (if not from the top of the road photographers like Marc, who are using MF as well).

What's grand is that after a feeling that everything was settling down to 12-16mp cropped sensors and 12-24mp full frame sensors; suddenly we seem to be living in interesting times again.

all the best
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
pegelli said:
Sorry, but I don't agree and find it even elitist and offensive.

+ first: the market for low/medium end models is far bigger then the market for so called "advanced amateurs" you find on these fora. So market share is driven by the 200/300/500 series (incl. the SLT's), not by the A700 and FF's
+ second: useless for you doesn't mean useless for everybody.

I agree Sony is slow catering for the future of the "advanced amateurs" without a clear roadmap for FF as well as a very slow A700 replacement, but I don't blame them for what they have done for the (much bigger) bottom of the pyramid.
Click to expand...
I'm right with you here, and if they've been slow with the A700 replacement, at least they've given useable cameras in the meantime (the 580 for instance); what's more, they've obviously been working really hard to get it right.
 
P

Paratom

Well-known member
jonoslack said:
HI Tom
Whilst I quite agree about the big bright viewfinders and the troubles with EVF, I've never heard anyone saying that's what they're using MF for. I wonder how good an EVF has to be before one ceases to feel disconnected? Added to which, there has been talk of the A99 having an optical option as well (have to wait and see)

Practice is another issue, as is general ergonomics, and of course, much of this is personal.

My point really was that if something which filled the bill technically for almost all situations was available in a reasonably sized package, then it would become increasingly difficult to get people to pay 15 times as much for something which added quality (but quality which one mostly didn't need), but removed functionality, and at that point the price differential will get even bigger.

Sony don't really have the lenses to take over from Canikon yet, but I can see the A77 taking over from the Canon 5D and Nikon 700 for that vast horde of middle of the road wedding and event photographers (if not from the top of the road photographers like Marc, who are using MF as well).

What's grand is that after a feeling that everything was settling down to 12-16mp cropped sensors and 12-24mp full frame sensors; suddenly we seem to be living in interesting times again.

all the best
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Of course one buys MF mainly for IQ, but I enjoy the big viewfinders all the time. For me (in case of the S2) I also prefer the user interface with its simplicity over many DSLRs. Its not just IQ and everything else would be worse than a (smaller) DSLR.
I find the points a) how sits a camera in the hand b) how intuitive is it to control c) how good can you see the subject quite important as well.
Even the step from DX-viewfinder to FF-viewfinder (lets say K5 to A900) makes quite a difference for my taste.
As much as I liked the K5 viewfinder I allways found it slightly to small and too dark.

How much more one wants to pay for a little bit more IQ is another question.
There are some people who pay 7k € for a 50mm prime even one can buy a good 50mm lens for 150 € :D
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
t_streng said:
How much more one wants to pay for a little bit more IQ is another question.
There are some people who pay 7k € for a 50mm prime even one can buy a good 50mm lens for 150 € :D
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:p:p:p

Quite right - but there have to be enough people who want to do this to make manufacturing possible.

And I quite agree about the ergonomics as well, you know how badly I'd like an S2!
 
A

Andrea Buso

Guest
jonoslack said:
I'm right with you here, and if they've been slow with the A700 replacement, at least they've given useable cameras in the meantime (the 580 for instance); what's more, they've obviously been working really hard to get it right.
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+1

I think, once this new batch of Sony cameras will roll out, it will be quite hard for the "other twos", to do much better with their future models.
It will not be that easy anymore.
 
douglasf13

douglasf13

New member
Using the "nexviewer" on my NEX-5 creates an EVF that is a little bigger than my Hasselblad Vs with a prism finder, and using the camera with or without this contraption is still faster to manual focus than my A900, because of focus peaking. In a more static setting, it is more accurate to focus because of focus magnification.

Quite honestly, I adapted to an OVF-less camera more quickly than I expected, and you'll all come around, eventually. ;)
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
douglasf13 said:
Wait, do you mean the NEX-7? The A77 is A700-sized.
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No - not the NEX 7, Are you sure the A77 is A700 sized? it certainly doesn't look like it. Not that the A700 is that big.

Although the NEX7 looks lovely, I primarily want a third line system to be small, with small lenses - don't want to shoot Leica glass on it (not yet at any rate), so m4/3 seems more suitable.
 
douglasf13

douglasf13

New member
The A77 looks to be a similar, if not a little bigger, in size to the A700. Here is someone's approximate comparison from dpreview:


I believe they used the hotshoe as a size indicator
 
JMaher

JMaher

New member
Jono,

I have been following the A77 thread as it obviously looks like an interesting camera. I still have a 5D2 as well as my K5 and the Canon rarely sees the light of day. If the A77 is a good as the rumors sound then maybe it could replace one or both.

From your last comment it seems you are thinking about a m4/3 for your small camera. Thinking about abandoning the K5 to go back to m 4/3?

Jim
 
L

Lonnie Utah

New member
douglasf13 said:
As long as the NEX-7's LCD still tilts up, I think I'm gonna bite (if this is a real camera.)
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Looks like you have an answer....

from SAR...

You should tell your readers to hold off on buying the X100. I’m seriously contemplating selling my X100. I still prefer the OVF to the NEX EVF but overallt he NEX seems super impressive. The NEX-7 still has the same tilt screen which is useful for shooting from the hip.”
Click to expand...
 
iiiNelson

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Wow this looks to be potentially a really great camera. I've been sitting on the fence with the Pentax K5 because of the lack of a lot of local dealer support to handle one in person and some of the perceived quality/ autofocus issues. I love the thought of everything else about that camera though. This looks to add the best things about the K5 like weather sealing, weather resistant lens (albeit only one at the time,) and adds accurate autofocus, articulating screen, and a competitive rumored price point. I'm intrigued right now.

NEX-7 looks like what I hoped the NEX-5 could've been but I will hold out for a more extensive E-mount lens lineup before grabbing another NEX camera.
 
C

curious80

Guest
jonoslack said:
HI Tom

Sony don't really have the lenses to take over from Canikon yet, but I can see the A77 taking over from the Canon 5D and Nikon 700 for that vast horde of middle of the road wedding and event photographers (if not from the top of the road photographers like Marc, who are using MF as well).
Click to expand...
I dont understand what new features does A77 add to allow it to replace Canon 5D and Nikon D700? The major selling point of these cameras is the FF sensor with the resulting depth of field control, high-iso performance and more option at wide-angle. A77 would not change any of that. It definitely looks like a great APS-C camera but I don't expect it to replace 5D/D700 any more than I would expect Canon 7D or Nikon D7000 to do that.
 
edwardkaraa

edwardkaraa

New member
I don't get the leaf shutter thing. Apart from being able to synchronize flash at high shutter speed, what are the other advantages?
 
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