I think Jorgen has it with Sony, that there really isn't a good wide prime for APS/c.
Just this guy you know
Can alphamount ssm lenses autofocus on nex e-mount in contrast mode with the smaller adapter? Or is it manual focus only without the frankenadapter? I am not clear on that.
"Further lens options - LA-EA2 Alpha mount autofocus adapter
"To further expand the range of lenses that NEX owners can use with full functionality, Sony has also announced the LA-EA2 adapter that promises fast autofocus with all existing Alpha mount lenses. This uses the company's SLT technology, with a fixed 'translucent' mirror and built-in phase detection AF sensor, plus an AF motor for 'screw-drive' lenses. Somewhat reminiscent of Leica's old 'Visoflex' system for its M-mount film rangefinders, the rather bulky housing also has its own tripod socket for use with larger lenses. The LA-EA2 includes the same 15-point AF sensor as the SLT A65 and original A55.
The Sony LA-EA2 NEX-to-SLT adapter promises fully-functioning fast phase-detection autofocus with all Alpha-mount AF lenses - something no other mirrorless system can quite match
While this certainly expands on the range of lenses accessible to NEX owners, we're not entirely convinced of its real-world practicality (especially as, at $399, it's not cheap). We have a sneaking suspicion that it only exists to show that the NEX can be used with more than the handful of native E-mount lenses, rather than being a big seller. It seems likely that most people who own a range of Alpha lenses will already have SLRs to use them on, increasingly supplemented by 'real' SLTs. And perhaps the biggest attraction of mirrorless camera over SLRs is compactness, which rather goes away when using AF lenses with such a large adapter. But for those who bought a NEX and then discovered that they really wanted an SLT after all, it could well come in handy, and we can see potential for videography."
Last edited by nugat; 9th February 2014 at 06:38.
Looking at my basic lens lineup (CZ16-35,CZ24-70,Siggy 70-200 f/2.8) the ranges get a little funky on APS-C. I'm not sure that the 16-250 I have that lives full time on my A200 would be a great choice on the 77. I'm sure it would be OK, but it's not a knock your sock off type of lens.
So, I guess I have to wait. I am going to go to my local shop and handle the A77. If it blow me away, I might bite. But that still means spending another $600-700 on glass (for a mediocre UWA), and I'm sure at that point I'm close to the price point of the new FF. I might as well wait....
Just this guy you know
For me, the extended tele range would be the only reason to jump to the A77. But since those ranges make up less than 10% of my shooting, it doesn't make sense to buy something just for a 1.5x boost. If that's the only goal, a much better plan (economically) would be to get the 1.4x or 2x tele-converter and turn my 70-200 f/2.8 into a 140-400 f/5.6.
The lack of high quality lenses is typical for problems with many Sony products: They are very well executed from so many points of view, and extremely attractive and well designed, although most of them have their little "Sony quirks". But they often fail to see the product in a broader context. Walkman is the typical Sony success; you load a cassette that is a world wide standard, you plug it into your ear, and it works. The Elcaset was the opposite. The product was fantastic, but they forgot to consider the fact that almost everybody on earth who could afford to buy one, already had a music system that worked well enough... and it was at least twice as expensive as the competition... and Sony was the only manufacturer supporting it.
The Alpha mount was a lucky strike, since the product line-up was already more or less there together with a customer base. NEX is a great idea, and partly well executed, but it fails in two major areas: It has a menu system that nobody asked for and that alienate many photographers, and it's seriously lacking on the lens side. Why couldn't they, instead of the Frankenadapter which must have cost some serious work to develop, have gone to Zeiss and asked them to make a WA lens too. I seem to remember that Zeiss has a few WA tricks up their sleeve.
To stay with the cassette terminology: The Frankenadapter reminds me of the old Nakamichi 1000 cassette deck; fantastic quality, but you didn't want to carry one unless you really, really had to. Not that it was meant to be portable to start with, but the Frankenadapter doesn't seem to be very portable either.
One could of course live with the 7 and just the 24 and 50mm lenses. I only had two lenses for my OM-1 the first number of years as well. But with the OM, I knew that it was possible to buy some high quality glass if I wanted. Lots of it. Even the 4/3 system included some rather hot glass from the outset, even if there was just one 5MP body to choose from. The lack of good, compact primes for the NEX, and given Sony's history of giving up if the hill becomes too steep, would make me reluctant to invest in this undoubtedly very fine camera if I had the monies to pay 3,000 shiny silver dollars for that and the two good lenses. Which is a pity, because it seems to be a very nice piece of equipment, more or less tailor made for the kind of photography that I do.
The bad performance of the Sony 16mm is often overstated. Sure, there is a drop off in sharpness at the very, very corner of the frame, but put on the .75x converter and slightly crop to about a 20mm equivalent, and it is just fine. That would be especially easy with 24 megapixels. Considering the size, focal length, aperture, and minimal distortion and flare, I think the Sony 16 is actually pretty remarkable for what it is, and Olympus had to make their 12/2 twice as long to get better performance out of the same equivalent focal length and DOF. Of course, all of the review sites with test targets only a few feet away may not agree.
Douglas, if I invest $3,000 or more in a camera system, I don't want to "put on the .75x converter and slightly crop to about a 20mm equivalent". I would rather have a slightly larger lens that is sharp from corner to corner, than save 54g and 20mm on one lens. For m4/3 there are now 4 very good WA lenses available, 2 zooms and 2 primes. I fail to see how Sony would lack the ability to develop at least one very good WA zoom and one good prime. This seems to be a question of priorities and attitude. That is what worries me... or rather would have worried me if I had bought into the system, which I won't do at the moment.
... or maybe I will
OM-2 plus NEX-7 and OM lenses, film and digital, 21, 35, 85 plus 135mm? Sounds like a nice travel kit
@Jorgen I agree with what you are largely saying about the NEX system. There are more NEX body models than lenses so it's hard to take Sony serious about it. It's a great sensor and I've gotten good results out of the system. That being said a couple of low end zooms and a decent WA prime (for the money) leaves a lot to be desired. I was an early adopter in the NEX system because it seemed to provide noticeable sensor improvements over the Micro 4/3. What it doesn't provide is comparable lens quality. The Panasonic 14-45 kicks the crap out of the 18-55 Sony and I won't mention the 20, 45 Macro, or 7-14 WA Zoom. It's a big reason I went back to the G1 in favor of the NEX-5. (along with a M9 purchase.) I've taken some of my best pictures with the Micro 4/3 system but the Sony sensor is much better for low light.
I will see what the NEX-7 adds to the mix and of course the A77.
Panasonic has announced that they are developing 12-35 and 35-100mm f/2.0 zooms for m4/3. That does it for me I suppose.
did your retailer give you an ETA as to the arrival of your A77? I am keen to hear the opinion of someone who knows his way around rather than the bits I've been seeing. Phil's team does a fine job with the prerelease stuff, but it's a little hard to get feedback from them. I am interested in the A77's lowlight capabilities as compared to my D700.
All the best...
In the early days of micro-4/3s there were just the kit lenses and a lot of complaints about lens quality. It took a couple years for there to be more than one good standard lens for that system. Seems lens production takes a long time to gear up (and lens design might as well) ... so I think it still is too early to expect great lenses for Sony. I think this Zeiss lens might be the sony equivalent of the Pana-Leica 20mm f1.7 for m4/3s-- the first "great" lens for the system.
Seems these adapters, even if they are hack solutions, are a great way to leverage existing lens collections onto the new platform, and make sense given that lenses always seem to take a long time to bring to market, even when they are "obviously" needed.
I think to the manufacturers, the kit zoom and a kit prime are what's needed first, and then, if the system is successful, they start on the other lenses.
Are we sliding the A77 thread to become a discussion forum for missing Nex lenses?
I think the A77 has sufficient high quality native Sony, heritage Minolta and 3rd party lenses to satisfy most users.
LOL... I was thinking stick a 70-400 lens on it, and leave it there. Perfect for wildlife shots etc, especially with the 1.4x or 2x 12mp feature...
I could not find this feature in specifications at dpreview. It might be there and I missed it, however...
But at photographybay heres what they said.
I thought a 400mm lens on crop body was a good minimum to have, 600mm or so, is now upto 1200mm easily...The Smart Teleconverter displays an enlarged central portion of the image sensor, allowing compositions to be displayed clearly on the OLED viewfinder and captured as 12 megapixel images with a digital zoom factor of 1.4x or 2x.
Well I just got a hold the Alpha 77 brochure. Here is the link in case anyone is interested:
I was looking at the grip design and it is possible that Sony could make a larger battery to fit in there and give you more shots.
Waynelake, that is pretty much my game plan for the a77.
I do most of my shots with my NEX 5 (landscapes/seascapes) and carry a a33 attached to a 70-400 in a camera/lens holster for any wildlife shots that might present themselves. A 24mp crop sensor on a G glass 70-400 just fits my needs and wants perfectly and is way cheaper than trying to chase down a fast long prime lens ( plus a lighter pkg to carry for my 5-7% usage requirements). The a77 also will work with the minolta 5600 wireless flash system for those extremely rare times I need that as well.
It was a hard decision for me whether to order the a77 or the NEX7 (and I may even own both eventually) but the a33 had some issues that did not suit my needs and so far the NEX 5 is still my more than acceptable workhorse so right now the a77 was more important to get first. Good ole dang needs and wants ..... Will put a retiree in the poor house
I have a friend visiting each year from Europe. We are meant to be going to Stewart Island NZ (native birds) maybe February/March... I have not had a camera for a while, so now its no excuses...
I figure the 70-400 and A77 good high ISO would do instead of faster telephoto. The Zeiss 24 F2 would be nice, and I'm trying to figure out what the Leica fisheye works out to be on crop body. I've read its ?12mm or probably about 20mm. Either way, those 3 lenses could be a choice. Yeah, a 20, 35 equivalent and the big zoom... lol...
I spotted at keh Minolta 300 2.8 APO for about $3000
...and Leica 400/800 lens head with 2.8 and 5.6 focus modules about $11,000
Thought the later probably a good price.
Thanks for the pdf Carlos
Yeah $1400 for a body is a bargain price considering other options for long tele wildlife shots
Just a heads up: Iridient RAW Developer now supports A77 & A65 RAW files. You can download a demo here.
I have just placed a reorder for a77. From the day of announcement, I have been balancing the benefits of Nex7 vs A77. No doubt I will also get Nex7 but the lack of auto-focusing lenses in Nex line is a quite disappointing and I hardly understand Sony's marketing ideas for this. I worried about Nex future as both Panasonic and Olympus have been putting so many good lenses to the customers. Recent month sales in Japan reflect this point.
I was thrilled about the new adapter but before that, a77 is a good alternative to the Nex7+adapter combo.
After looking around the web and the volume of "professor/engineering types" analyzing, dissecting, and throwing stones at available Internet images (as they did with the NEX5 and the first SLT's when launched) one has to question the logic of Sony's marketing strategies. They allow the release of pre production images months before production units are available and then the lovers and haters go to war! Each trying to go one up on the other using non-finalized images are a reference for debate. What the heck is that?
I watched this go on on nearly every new product launch and then finally when the product gets into customers hands all is well once again in the Sony user's world.
One really has to question the benefit of marketing in this manner. I know I would hold the product till it was finalized and ready to ship then announce it as I was shipping it to the wholesalers and eliminate all the possible customer in fighting that currently exists. Let the proof be in the pudding!
I think I will just stay here on this site till my product arrives as I am weary of the chaos on other sites about these products. C'mon late October
Most camera reviews are crap anyway. Some of them present studio photos, taken on a tripod, that aren't even properly focused. Then they spend countless pages explaining features that most photographers will hardly ever use and that I prefer not to know about since they tend to get in the way of my photography, before they compare it to a bunch of cameras that I know nothing about since I've never used them, and conclude that this particular model is "Highly Recommended" or scores 75% out of something, which probably means that the camera in question will only get 75% keepers
The only solution seems to be to read this excellent forum and/or buy the camera.
Edit: I've looked at a few samples that have been posted around the web. There's a frightening lot of detail in the low ISO photo, but high ISO, even 1600, seems rather noisy, at least at full resolution and it's still very visible even when the size is reduced. This makes me wonder if Sony, at least from a photographer's point of view, has taken it a little bit too far this time. But the gadget freaks will buy it in hordes obviously, and success is mostly measured in figures, not by artistic potential
Yeah, buying has always been believing for me
All those endless features, or program modes is enough to get a person lost in the menu... Some I admit are good, but theres only so much needed, and maybe + 1 or 2 more things. If that makes sense...
?...the Leica-R 15mm 3.5...?
If you see it that way every prime suddenly becomes a 1.5 zoom lens
Yep, it happens and it's happened to me!
It's also nice to have a tele lens on the A700 and a wider lens on the A900, both at the ready. When shooting wildlife anything can happen and usually very quickly so no time to change lenses. It's saved me quite a few otherwise lost shots.
Well, the production versions are being sold in Korea and Great Britain this week and rumored to be available in China today. Firmware is version 1.02 and from what has been posted by several new owners on the net I am very pleased with their images even-though they are just out of camera Jpeg's.
I had a pre-order in with Amazon placed on the first day (8/24/11) but just cancelled it and pre-ordered through Sony Style. I had ordered with Amazon for "my protection" if I might find the camera did not fit my needs as their return policy is excellent. The problem with Amazon is they are historically 2-4 weeks behind Sony Style when it comes to availability and shipping dates. I have never returned a camera for any reason to a retailer or online store and now I know I will be pleased with the a77 for my requirements and returning will remain a non-issue.
I may have a a77 in time for some fall scenics for my trip up to the Lehigh Valley around the end of October Now, comes the hard part ...... waiting the next few weeks
The pixel peepers and nay sayers were really starting to get to me ..... now that regular people who I have communicated with for years on the net are taking real images and posting their impressions and images I am much more confident in my decision to acquire a a77!
Hmm. . . Silas (son) picked his up today . . . . I think I'll be getting mine tomorrow.
I'll keep you guys posted!
all the best
Just this guy you know
Great Jono! We have about another month to wait over here in the USA.
I will be curious on your take on this camera and it's IQ, Jono. From what I saw posted today from a owner in England I could find no cause for alarm about the issues the pixel peepers were in a uproar about with noise and high ISO's (not that I shoot high ISO's for any of my shots ... I rarely get above 200)
I'm afraid the jury will be out for a while due to the lack of RAW support. My initial response is very favourable, but that's just looking at jpgs. Dxo seem to have had a look and they think it's pretty good as well.
I'm afraid that the more the megapixels the more the pixelpeepers will complain, for the simple reason that they all seem to examine images at 100%, rather than by looking at an equivalent portion of the frame, which would be much fairer.
What I can say is that the camera is fantastic - small(ish) light, very quiet, responsive, nice to hold, well laid out, easy to use (the manual is still in the box). It's been my first experience with focus peaking as well.
all the best
Just this guy you know
That's great to hear Jono. It is regrettable that RAW support lags so far behind but that is a common problem and a understandable one as well. Maybe, during the next month while I am waiting Aperture or PS will obtain RAW support by then. Yeah, I know, wishful thinking
Your the second one I have seen remark about it's light weight and handling atributes. Nice when a camera just feels "right" in the hand.
I will be looking forward to your further evaluations and pictures as I am sure many American here on this site will as well. Have fun my friend and thanks for your comments.
Jono, I figure I will order some accessories for the a77 prior to it arriving and have a maybe silly question for you. I see it takes a Sony NP-FM500H battery. But also read a questionable comment on sony rumors "The vertical battery grip VG-C77AM will cost $299.99 US . And I have beent told the A77 will use the same battery as A700/A850/A900: The NP-FM500H." that made me pause and wonder if in reality it is the same exact battery with the connections in the exact same spot (also read where it was it's own dedicated battery in another review on the web). Figured I would go to the horses mouth and get verification from a actual owner who would definitely know before I order 3 additional batteries and a charger. Are the batteries the exact same ones as used in the a900?