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The future is here - Sony Nex 7

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L

lowep

Member
"it may as well be seen as a negative impact for some DSLR companies in some years looking back. Time will show if my drastic words were right."

at least we agree about this
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
I don't think NEX7 will sell in large volumes at all. Seriosuly, who would buy it?
It's too expensive for the mass market so it's not an alternative to even high-end compacts like G12 etc.
It's too big to be pocketable, even with a pancake lens, so it doesn't replace a compact.
It's too expensive and too big to be a compact travel alternative to a DSLR.
The system is nowhere complete enough to be seen as an only system for.

What remains, then, is enthusiasts who are not cost sensitive, looking for more of the latest gear.
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Lars Vinberg said:
What remains, then, is enthusiasts who are not cost sensitive, looking for more of the latest gear.
Click to expand...
Or enthusiasts who are looking for a platform fo adapted rangefinder and older SLR lenses.
Agree that's also not going to ba a huge mass of people.

However only time will tell, same logic could be applied to the Nex 3 and 5 when they came out, and I think they have been a reasonable success.
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
pegelli said:
Or enthusiasts who are looking for a platform fo adapted rangefinder and older SLR lenses.
Agree that's also not going to ba a huge mass of people.

However only time will tell, same logic could be applied to the Nex 3 and 5 when they came out, and I think they have been a reasonable success.
Click to expand...
Resonable success yes, but hardly world-changing. NEX7 is in a different price bracket, significantly higher than entry-level DSLRs so it won't be seen as an alternative to a DSLR by the mass market.

I think Sony needs a few more generations of the NEX system to find its identity. Perhaps they should consider joining the camera and lens departments.
 
edwardkaraa

edwardkaraa

New member
Obviously the Nex 7 is more of a niche product, unlike the Nex 3/5. I would not expect Sony to sell huge quantities either, but I know a lot of advanced amateurs, even non Sony users, who are very eager to get it (just look at FM alt forum).

I know I will order one as soon as available, together with the Zeiss 24/1.8.

Imho, the Nex 7 is not the future, but it gives us an idea on how the future is going to look like. All cameras will be mirrorless sooner or later.
 
Stefan Steib

Stefan Steib

Active member
Lars
if you take a look at Sony themselves you may come to the conclusion you are right - they are playing this like the sink battleships game with 3 shots at the same time the Nex7 the 77 and the 65 all 3 with the same sensors and similar features (EVF).
But Even if Sony will not become Market leader immediately (I´m pretty sure this will NOT happen) the impact of this will be a shift to these Mirrorless systems. And this is not only my opinion, Michael Reichmann calls it a game changer, DPreview says :" This is clearly Sony's response to its discovery that it's not just upgraders from point-and-shoot compacts that are interested in this type of camera."
We will see - in a year we can talk about what happened.
And in the meantime I´ll get this for my walk arounds ;-)

Regards
Stefan
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
Stefan,
Reichmann isn't exactly the most insightful person on the planet - his talent is in networking (getting all manufacturers to lend him products to review). His best technical and photographic insights come from guest authors. I would rather say the Fuji X100 is a game changer.

What I DO like about Sony's recent releases though, is that it pushes its competitors WRT resulution as well as image quality and computing speed. Perhaps Nikon can finally climb out of the 12 Mpx trench and realize it needs higher res sensors AND lenses to compete. Rumors say that's in the works, but I believe it when I see it.
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Lars Vinberg said:
Stefan,
I would rather say the Fuji X100 is a game changer.
Click to expand...
:wtf:

Sorry for the strong language :rolleyes:
A very expensive niche camera with a fixed lens which main attraction is retro style can never be a game changer in my book. It might give good IQ, but for that price with it's limited options it better does that or otherwise it doesn't even have a reason for existence.
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
pegelli said:
A very expensive niche camera with a fixed lens which main attraction is retro style can never be a game changer in my book. It might give good IQ, but for that price with it's limited options it better does that or otherwise it doesn't even have a reason for existence.
Click to expand...
I was more thinking of the viewfinder of the X100, which conceptually qualifies as a game changer, at least to me (though I have never used one so implementation might not meet the promise).

You could turn your argument around and ask what's the big deal is about an EVF camera whose main attraction is piss-poor ergonomics unless you have tiny Japanese hands.

I still don't understand why you are so excited about the NEX7 that you want to call it a game changer. What game is changed, and for whom?
 
U

uhoh7

New member
Lars Vinberg said:
I don't think NEX7 will sell in large volumes at all. Seriosuly, who would buy it?
It's too expensive for the mass market so it's not an alternative to even high-end compacts like G12 etc.
It's too big to be pocketable, even with a pancake lens, so it doesn't replace a compact.
It's too expensive and too big to be a compact travel alternative to a DSLR.
The system is nowhere complete enough to be seen as an only system for.

What remains, then, is enthusiasts who are not cost sensitive, looking for more of the latest gear.
Click to expand...
I predict here and now, you are dead wrong. :)

The Nex-7 will outsell the field at that pricepoint.

There has never been a camera made with the size, performance and versatility of the nex-7. There is huge buzz already in the staid lecia community--who rarely cast a second glance at the dirty little nex-5 :)

The true performance of the sensor is not apreciated, since the raws are still unreadable.

10FPS, fast AF, best EVF ever made, new lens adapters, and lenses on the way from sony, not to mention all the makers who now have the specs from sony.

It will shoot beautifully with legacy glass.

It weighs 290 grams.

The talk of too big and too small is simply silly--it's the smallest thing ever seen that can do what it can do---by a mile.

Sony has just wiped the floor with canikon and the in the box thinking you put forward. :salute:

The camera will be available in November. One year from then I'll dig up this thread and we'll see who was right LOL

PS please don't misread my tone, not trying to be disrespectful. Many agree with you, I just think they all are crazy!
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Lars Vinberg said:
I was more thinking of the viewfinder of the X100, which conceptually qualifies as a game changer, at least to me (though I have never used one so implementation might not meet the promise).

....

I still don't understand why you are so excited about the NEX7 that you want to call it a game changer. What game is changed, and for whom?
Click to expand...
Viewfinder is neat, but we'll have to wait and see if it "changes the game".

Btw, I was never was exited about the Nex 7 and certainly I did not call it a game changer. I only like the Nex as a platform (or digital back) for my Leica M and Olympus OM lenses. However for that (for me) the Nex 5 does everything I need in that respect
 
douglasf13

douglasf13

New member
Lars Vinberg said:
I was more thinking of the viewfinder of the X100, which conceptually qualifies as a game changer, at least to me (though I have never used one so implementation might not meet the promise).

You could turn your argument around and ask what's the big deal is about an EVF camera whose main attraction is piss-poor ergonomics unless you have tiny Japanese hands.

I still don't understand why you are so excited about the NEX7 that you want to call it a game changer. What game is changed, and for whom?
Click to expand...
It's potentially a game changer for me. I already migrated completely away from my A900 system after using the NEX-5 and rangefinder lenses for a while, but I do see the resolution differences at my usual print size. This NEX-7 is like combining the GH2, NEX-5 and A900 into one camera, and then adding a little rangefinder seasoning (in terms of the lenses I'll use.) It's really almost exactly how I'd design a digital camera for myself...outside of maybe wanting a larger sensor that probably won't happen for a long time, if ever.

In fact, I believe the NEX-7 is the first camera I've ever pre-ordered.
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
douglasf13 said:
It's potentially a game changer for me. I already migrated completely away from my A900 system after using the NEX-5 and rangefinder lenses for a while, but I do see the resolution differences at my usual print size. This NEX-7 is like combining the GH2, NEX-5 and A900 into one camera, and then adding a little rangefinder seasoning (in terms of the lenses I'll use.) It's really almost exactly how I'd design a digital camera for myself...outside of maybe wanting a larger sensor that probably won't happen for a long time, if ever.

In fact, I believe the NEX-7 is the first camera I've ever pre-ordered.
Click to expand...
Sure, I understand your thinking and I don't really disagree. And I understand others' excitement here, for the same and other reasons. But that's pretty far from a mass-market success.
 
M

monza

Active member
How does one define a mass market success?

The 3 through the 7 cover a pretty wide market segment.
 
Lars

Lars

Active member
uhoh7 said:
I predict here and now, you are dead wrong. :)

The Nex-7 will outsell the field at that pricepoint.

There has never been a camera made with the size, performance and versatility of the nex-7. There is huge buzz already in the staid lecia community--who rarely cast a second glance at the dirty little nex-5 :)

The true performance of the sensor is not apreciated, since the raws are still unreadable.

10FPS, fast AF, best EVF ever made, new lens adapters, and lenses on the way from sony, not to mention all the makers who now have the specs from sony.

It will shoot beautifully with legacy glass.

It weighs 290 grams.

The talk of too big and too small is simply silly--it's the smallest thing ever seen that can do what it can do---by a mile.

Sony has just wiped the floor with canikon and the in the box thinking you put forward. :salute:

The camera will be available in November. One year from then I'll dig up this thread and we'll see who was right LOL

PS please don't misread my tone, not trying to be disrespectful. Many agree with you, I just think they all are crazy!
Click to expand...
290 grams, sure. Add three or four lenses and hoods, those brass-ring filters you will surely get for your new lenses, a camera bag, flash and batteries and the weight difference to an A77 is marginal. And WRT handheld stability and sharpness I'll take a 900g camera body over a 290g any time. Sometimes less weight isn't a good thing.

Shooting with legacy glass once again has nothing to do with mass-market success. It's a pastime for a small gathering of enthusiasts.

Not even excitement from Leica shooters is any indications of potential mass-market success. Once again, a small, albeit price-insensitive, niche.

And if the best EVF ever made is limited to 1024x768 pixels then I don't see any bragging rights there whatsoever. Personally I think full HD is too limited for focusing, as my eyes - through an optical viewfinder - can resolve more than that.

I'm not stuck with in-the-box thinking at all - having used many cameras over the years I just know bad ergonomics when I see it.

BTW why dont you post with your real name so we can follow up on this discussion from either end a year from now?
 
jonoslack

jonoslack

Active member
Lars Vinberg said:
Sure, I understand your thinking and I don't really disagree. And I understand others' excitement here, for the same and other reasons. But that's pretty far from a mass-market success.
Click to expand...
Hi Lars
I've been reading all the comments here (and yours as well). I actually agree with you that once you start adding adaptors etc you can end up with something the size of the A77.

I also saw your remarks about the X100 viewfinder. I had an X100 for a month, and the problem was that with the optical viewfinder there wasn't really a good way of judging whether you had focus - either in manual or auto focus. The EVF was the only real way to shoot (except for street, where you are probably zone focusing anyway). Added to which, maybe Fuji will prove us wrong, but the information I get suggests that this sort of hybrid viewfinder will only work with a fixed focal length lens (that's fixed on the camera, not interchangeable).

I'm not convinced you're right about being able to out resolve 1068x760 in an EVF - that's higher resolution than an iPhone 4, and I don't think anyone's eyes out resolves that. Of course, you may not like EVF's (I'm equivocal).

It seems to me that this camera really can be a jack of all trades - stick a 35mm summicron on it and it really is pocketable - put a Zeiss 135 f1.8 on it and it certainly isn't (the resulting images might be interesting though). Think of it as a 24mp digital back which will take almost any lens made and suddenly it does sound like an interesting camera (to me at least).

The Fuji seems to be selling like hot cakes - I can't see any good reason why this wouldn't sell better - it's pretty sexy, and has lots of advantages . . . and having thought that Fuji's hybrid viewfinder was the answer to life, the universe and everything, after a month I thought it was just a neat idea which didn't really work yet.

Still, if Pentax can make little tiny lenses for an SLR with a mirror box, why on earth can't Sony make some teeny-tiny lenses for the NEX cameras?
 
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