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Fun with NEX-7

Godfrey

Well-known member
As requested here's two images with M-Mount lenses. Imported directly into LR3, converted to DNG on import, exported as jpeg. 'Purple shift' on both. Most evident on the 15mm photo. It wasn't this apparent on my Nex 5N.
Well, that nixes the NEX 7 for me. It otherwise looks like a very nice body to work with. But, for me, it has to work with M-bayonet 21, 25, and 28 mm lenses as well as the Ricoh GXR-M does to be worth putting money into. I get virtually no color shifting with symmetrical M-bayonet lenses in these focal lengths on the GXR-M.
 

etrigan63

Active member
Godfrey, I have to agree with you regarding M-glass wider than 35 mm for this camera. Unfortunately, there is no definitive list of which lens is symmetric and which is asymmetric in design. At least, none that I know of.

I have had some rather good results with Zuiko OM glass, but this does not address your need to access legacy M-glass.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Godfrey, I have to agree with you regarding M-glass wider than 35 mm for this camera. Unfortunately, there is no definitive list of which lens is symmetric and which is asymmetric in design. At least, none that I know of.

I have had some rather good results with Zuiko OM glass, but this does not address your need to access legacy M-glass.
I'm sure the NEX 7 will work fine with all short focal length SLR lenses as all of them once down to 35mm focal length will be significant retrofocus designs to clear the reflex mirror. That was why manufacturers chose to build their digital camera lines on the SLR lens lines in the first place, and why it was so difficult for Leica to come out with a digital RF camera that performed well.

But I've got a healthy bit of money in new, not "legacy", M-bayonet lenses for the GXR and Leica M. They are the basis of what I want to work with due to their imaging characteristics, size and overall quality/feel/yada-yada. ;-)

I'll be sticking with the GXR. If the rumors are true, the 16 Mpixel version of the GXR A12 Camera Mount will be surfacing shortly. Given Ricoh's track record with the A12 Camera Mount, I expect it to be the best mirrorless body for these lenses until whatever Leica produces surfaces, and that remains a question mark as they might go the S2 route and design a whole new lens line specifically for it and eschew optimization for M-bayonet mount.
 

Terry

New member
Color shift is simple if you use C1. One click with LCC correction. I have to use it with my MF tech camera.

You do need to shoot the LLC frames and for many uses you can have a set of generic LCC's. Sort of similar to shooting a shot through an expo-disc

That doesn't help if there is smearing just color.

Ricoh has done a good job with the M module. Everyone has different wants and needs and that's why all of the systems can peacefully coexist.





.
 

Terry

New member
Merry X-Mas to me.
I was looking up something on B&H's site and decided to go the NEX 7 page. Seems like for a brief nanosecond they had a few in stock. Not anymore :D....arrives sometime next week.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Well Bob and Terry
I hope you have a fantastic Christmas . . . . no no no, of COURSE I'm not jealous:cry::poke:
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Color shift is simple if you use C1. One click with LCC correction. I have to use it with my MF tech camera.

You do need to shoot the LLC frames and for many uses you can have a set of generic LCC's. Sort of similar to shooting a shot through an expo-disc

That doesn't help if there is smearing just color.
Aside from the fact that I have no desire to adopt yet another image processing routine from what I'm already doing ... :) ... The smearing is the larger problem. If a camera is producing color shifts with short focal length lenses, it means the ray trace to edges and corner photosites is oblique enough with those lenses to cause corner and edge resolution issues, if not pronounced smearing. Smearing is exaggerated evidence of this issue.

One of the folks on the DPR forum posted a very interesting review of NEX 5n vs GXR-M cameras. He owns the NEX 5n and rented the GXR-M. I thought he did an excellent, objective job of articulating the differences ... and why he chose to stick with the Sony.

forums.dpreview.com/forums/... Ricoh Forum - "GXR M module vs 5N hands on review"

I see his results and comments, and it reinforces why I prefer to stick with the Ricoh.

But I think it is well taken that *all* of these cameras can produce excellent results, given that a photographer picks the right lenses to work with them, and the process that exploits their best capabilities and minimizes where they are deficient.

And most of all that the photographer's own skills in seeing and realizing that vision are up to the task. The cameras are not the weak point.


"Equipment is transitory. Photography endures."
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
I am not jealous either!
I just bought a nice zoomlens kit for the NEX7.
A Contax Zeiss Vario-Sonnar 35-70/3.4 and the Zeiss Vario sonnar 70-200/4
with a C/Y to NEX adapter. I hope those can handle the resolution :)
They have nice pouches, so they will not collect any dust till when........ :mad:

Michiel
 

Terry

New member
If a camera is producing color shifts with short focal length lenses, it means the ray trace to edges and corner photosites is oblique enough with those lenses to cause corner and edge resolution issues, if not pronounced smearing. Smearing is exaggerated evidence of this issue.

[/I]
I have bigger color shifts with MF format than what is shown here without smearing.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I have bigger color shifts with MF format than what is shown here without smearing.
Why are you trying to push on this, Terry?

I like the NEX 7 very much as a design concept. I just won't buy one because it doesn't work well with the lenses I've chosen and I have no interest in buying another system of lenses that works well with it.

Whatever the NEX 7's other excellent attributes might be do not outweigh the fact that I'm sure the gains over what I have are marginal at best. I'm trying to reduce the amount of equipment in the cabinet. Not increase it.

Controlling the magpie is difficult enough. ;-)
 

m_driscoll

New member
jlm: Thanks!:D
Terry/Bob: Congratulations!
Jono: I'll be in London on the 16th of next month on the way to India. If you meet me a Covent Gardens, I'll let you hold it. ;) Kidding. :D I'll see if there's a WATE at the camera store to try. Mine is long gone.
Godfrey: I had the GXR for a little while. What sold me on the Nex (5N and 7) was the viewfinder, different MF focus peaking, and usability of Sony Alpha and almost any other kind of lens. The IQ of the GXR with the A12 M-mount was stunning. If, I need a lens like the CV 15, i'll put it on the 5N or the M9. Truthfully, I rarely need the CV15...And, I heartily agree with your last sentence.
ggibson: I'll have to look into corner fix again. MR wasn't overly bothered by the fringing.
Michael: Those lenses should work great. I had a Contax/Nex adapter, but gave it away. Like Godfrey, I'm trying to limit my 'systems'.Have fun.

I've got the 24 Lux and 50 Lux in my bag to try today.

Cheers and Happy Holidays, Matt

http://mdriscoll.zenfolio.com
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Yes, I followed that thread on DPR too Godfrey.
I will not part from my Ricoh either because they did a lot right especially for our wide Zeiss en VC lenses and with the user interface and a swell body.
It sort of got laughed away before but many experienced the same gain in quality, on different forums like here for example http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111430

But the Nex 7 is a revolutionary camera too and I like 24MP for bigger prints and there are a lot of alt lenses which will work beautifully on the Sony.

So I want to have both.:) Eventually the Ricoh with the upcoming 16MP sony sensored M module. If that works like this module does after their treatment, it will outclass the Sony 5n for symmetrical designed wide lenses even more.
It could even be that this module will arrive sooner then the Nex 7. :D

Michiel
 

Terry

New member
Why are you trying to push on this, Terry?

I like the NEX 7 very much as a design concept. I just won't buy one because it doesn't work well with the lenses I've chosen and I have no interest in buying another system of lenses that works well with it.

Whatever the NEX 7's other excellent attributes might be do not outweigh the fact that I'm sure the gains over what I have are marginal at best. I'm trying to reduce the amount of equipment in the cabinet. Not increase it.

Controlling the magpie is difficult enough. ;-)
I'm not trying to push on anything and could care less if you want to buy a NEX 7 or not. I am making the point that I deal with color shifts everyday in my workflow and that you can have a lot of color shift without smearing. A tremendous amount of work was done on this with the release of the IQ180 back that had the exact same impact as the release of the NEX 7 after the NEX 5. Same sensor size, increased pixel density, introducing color shifts that need correction. With tech cameras it becomes even more pronounced with shifts as you are moving closer to the edges of the image circle.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
...
Godfrey: I had the GXR for a little while. What sold me on the Nex (5N and 7) was the viewfinder, different MF focus peaking, and usability of Sony Alpha and almost any other kind of lens. The IQ of the GXR with the A12 M-mount was stunning. If, I need a lens like the CV 15, i'll put it on the 5N or the M9. Truthfully, I rarely need the CV15...And, I heartily agree with your last sentence.
...
:)

I just found (and bought) another Skopar ... the 28mm f/3.5 in LTM. They're discontinued and I've been looking for one for a bit. This one looked brand new, in the box, so I sprang for it. Should be a perfect match to the GXR. I love the Skopars' imaging, I have four of them now (21, 28, 35, 50).

Different goals and tolerances. I do think the NEX 7 body is terrific, really wish it worked better with my lenses. But it is obvious it doesn't so that's the end of that.

The M9 I buy next year, if/when I buy it, will be the last new camera for a while.
 

Terry

New member
:)

I just found (and bought) another Skopar ... the 28mm f/3.5 in LTM. They're discontinued and I've been looking for one for a bit. This one looked brand new, in the box, so I sprang for it. Should be a perfect match to the GXR. I love the Skopars' imaging, I have four of them now (21, 28, 35, 50).
I had that lens essentially brand new up for sale here for ages. Finally sold it about 2 months ago.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I had that lens essentially brand new up for sale here for ages. Finally sold it about 2 months ago.
Never saw your post advertising it. Just looked for it and found you had a silver one ... I guess I was always looking for black finish so my search missed yours.

I've been looking for a black one, off and on, since last summer.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Occasionally it seems like we are tilting at windmills looking for one solution to a problem that today in reality does not exist. For years it was not as good as film...now it is not as good as ....fill in the blank_____....with this lens that lens this iso that iso. You know the routine.

I have a bunch of the recent cameras...have had a bunch more of the older cameras and really find that in certain areas each of them is stellar in its own way. I am overwhelmed that we now can use M lenses in a multi-varied environment of cameras.

So that...High Iso or wide....NEX-5N.

Big print with decent Iso...NEX-7.

Great travel camera with wonderful color and imaging...so analog like it makes me laugh...GXR-M module---> maybe improved with the new 16MP version...maybe not.
Talk about gorgeous BW conversions with this camera...close to the Sigma DPs with enough pixels to make a decent size print.

At these prices I will not give up any of these...mix it up on the weekend with different views and bodies. Any of these with peaking beats the M8, M8.5, M9 with my eyes. On a good day I can focus anything...lose some sleep work too long and it is zone focus and pick the winners.

The big question to me is not ... color shift or smearing...it is developing a consistent interface with the programmable buttons so it comes close to the usability of my Leica S2-P. Raw...iso, exposure compensation and bracketing and I am good...well adequate but that is a whole other story.

Perspective, framing, timing, context and story will trump all of the above...need to keep looking for sources to develop that voice that I know when I hear it...how to evoke and share it....

My desire for the NEX-7 was really for the inclusive EVF and...believe it or no...the hot shoe. What were they thinking with the trash flash on the NEX-5N. No way to trigger a decent series of lights except line of sight optical. It is really too good of a camera to be relegated to that...I'm thinking an off camera soft box or umbrella for location portraits as I cannot always find a North Light Window...especially in the third world hospitals I seem to frequent.

If I can get A850/A900 colors out of these cameras I will be pleased.

Sorry for the digression... long week with little time to unwind and no break until next weekend. Finding the 7 on BH Photo was the highpoint.

Bob
 
V

Vivek

Guest
My desire for the NEX-7 was really for the inclusive EVF and...believe it or no...the hot shoe. What were they thinking with the trash flash on the NEX-5N. No way to trigger a decent series of lights except line of sight optical.

Bob
:thumbup:

Well said! :)

I also do not understand the concept of EVF or flash. The GXR also appears to be stricken by this grave handicap, however good it might be with the offset lenses and all that.
 
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