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NEX-7 + CV, and Zeiss ZM lenses

Godfrey

Well-known member
yes, absolutely - it seems to be fine on the NEX7 - it's actually a zoom as well (although that's not a huge range).
Sorry - Godfrey - I see you asked that question before.
it's a favourite of mine, on the NEX7 too.
Not sure which question I asked before, but it's good to hear it works well on the NEX 7. I'd enjoy it with the GXR and M, if I could afford it. But it's out of the ballpark for 2012 - other things have taken precedence.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I guess this doesn't prove anything
here is the WATE at 16mm with the hawks adapter:


(working late again)
 

douglasf13

New member
I dunno, Jono, it's hard to tell in regards to detail, but that bottom right corner of the keyboard looks pretty darn purple.

Overall, I've seen a lot of other comparisons, now that the 7 is in people's hands, and it seems that, if you want evenness and less color shift with most 35mm rangefinder lenses, and just about all of them wider than 35mm, the 5N is the better choice. Granted, you'll get more center detail with the 7, which some may prefer, but you'll have a much steeper fall off at the edges and more color shift to deal with.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I dunno, Jono, it's hard to tell in regards to detail, but that bottom right corner of the keyboard looks pretty darn purple, to me.
HI Douglas
ouch - looks nasty, but I don't think that's actually anything to do with anything - the top and left of the image is lit with a nasty low energy (and very warm) light. The bottom right is lit with a computer screen with white on it from further away. Added to which I cooled things down a little. . I have lots from the same lens without an issue. It even looks purple with the naked eye! I've tidied up the white balance a bit and reposted - you can still see the shadow.

Here is another without the addition of the computer lighting:



Mind you, I don't disagree that the NEX5n was better with wide lenses - but I've had pretty good success (and very little trouble) shooting wide with the NEX7 and the more modern leica lenses
 

PeterA

Well-known member
That was an interesting link to the comparison between the two cameras. Lets leave aside the possibility that the Sony camera was a bad camera as far as the as displayed massive difference in presented sharpness and detail goes and take it as a given ..

It begs the question does it not- why would anyone wish to buy a Ricoh - with the Sony 16 megapixel chip in it - after this demonstration...??
 

douglasf13

New member
That was an interesting link to the comparison between the two cameras. Lets leave aside the possibility that the Sony camera was a bad camera as far as the as displayed massive difference in presented sharpness and detail goes and take it as a given ..

It begs the question does it not- why would anyone wish to buy a Ricoh - with the Sony 16 megapixel chip in it - after this demonstration...??
A couple of points.

First, the problem isn't so much the underlying sensor as it is the filter pack on top of it (and possibly the micro lens design,) so I'd expect a 16MP GXR to perform similarly to the 12MP GXR M module.

Second, take Sam's findings with a grain of salt. He compared the GXR and 5N using the same sharpening settings, which is a no-no when comparing cameras with and without an AA filter. Sam sent me RAWs of the CV 15 on the NEX-5N and GXR, and, while the GXR did do a little better job in the corners than the 5N, it wasn't a mind blowing difference, once sharpening was optimized for each file (AA filtered cameras require more aggressive deconvolution sharpening.)

For many CV and ZM M lenses, the GXR seems tops in total IQ, with the 5N close behind and the NEX-7 a ways back. If the GXR had the same quality EVF as the 5N, I'd likely be shooting one, but, as it stands now, I don't mind a slight corner hit for the better EVF of the 5N.
 

retow

Member
That was an interesting link to the comparison between the two cameras. Lets leave aside the possibility that the Sony camera was a bad camera as far as the as displayed massive difference in presented sharpness and detail goes and take it as a given ..

It begs the question does it not- why would anyone wish to buy a Ricoh - with the Sony 16 megapixel chip in it - after this demonstration...??
As Douglas said, plus better UI (for my liking actually much better), ergonomics, haptics, build quality, no wobbly adapters, integrated small flash. And lastly, knowing Ricoh, I expect them to already work on an improved EVF version. I wished, however, the Ricoh 12MP GXR m-mount had the same high iso performance of the NEX5N. That alone will be reasons enough for me to upgrade to a 16MP m-module.
 

kit laughlin

Subscriber Member
Interesting. Douglas, that's a helpful addition to Sam's test.

Godfrey, thanks for that detailed reply; I will be ordering a GF-1 flash for the GXR, because it turns out that the little inbuilt flash can trigger that unit. The CV 15 works very well, too.

I have found that, set up a particular way, the GXR is remarkably easy to focus; if I can work how to upload, here's an image that a friend took the very first time he handled the GXR (MF magnify + Predator mode):



and 100% crop, tiniest sharpening via Aperture:



I find the interface of the GXR to be remarkably intelligent, but have to admit that I have never handled one of the Sonys being discussed here!

The lens was a CV 35/1.7, I believe
 

jthurs

New member
Has anyone tried the ASPHERICAL Voigtlander 28/1.9 NEX-7? I know the new CV 35/1.2 Ver 2 is ASPH and works great on it.
 

douglasf13

New member
Has anyone tried the ASPHERICAL Voigtlander 28/1.9 NEX-7? I know the new CV 35/1.2 Ver 2 is ASPH and works great on it.
It's not the ASPH that's the issue, but, rather the exit pupil distance to the sensor. My guess is that the 28/1.9 will have more color shift and detail smearing at the edges on the 7 than the 5N, but it's tough to predict how much more and whether it'll be relevant in use. You just need to buy one and find out. :)
 

jthurs

New member
It's not the ASPH that's the issue, but, rather the exit pupil distance to the sensor. My guess is that the 28/1.9 will have more color shift and detail smearing at the edges on the 7 than the 5N, but it's tough to predict how much more and whether it'll be relevant in use. You just need to buy one and find out. :)
The 28/1.9 exit pupil seems to be further from the sensor based on the photos I've seen when compared to the CV 28/2 which seems to have minimal color shift on the 7. Whether or not it's the ASPH design that facilitates this, I'm not sure. And I know the 28 Cron also ASPH seems to work well with the 7 but the price seems to keep going up, so I bought the CV 28/1.9 which is en route to me. Still waiting for my NEX-7, pre-ordered in October so not sure when I'll be testing this.
 

douglasf13

New member
I think you may be confusing the exit pupil with the rear element. I've only seen the lens diagram for the 28/2, and we'd need that to estimate the exit pupil. Or, maybe a pic from the front and back of the lens with the same aperture selected.

The thing about color shift is that it may not show edge detail issues. For example, the ZM 35/2 shows minimal color shift on both the 5N and 7, but, according to Bjorn Utpott's tests, the 16mp 5N actually has more edge detail than the 24mp 7 until around f5.6.

Of course, even if there is less detail on the 7, it still may be acceptable for you. Either way, we don't have a lot of 28 Ultron examples on any of the NEX cameras, so I think you'll just have to give it a shot to test on your own.
 

philber

Member
so no one here has yet tested the ziess 18mm zm on the nex-7 yet?
for me this is wide enough.
I noticed over at digilloyd, he has been testing a lot of lenses, but nothing wider then 25mm so far
I tried just one shot of my ZM 18mm on my new NEX 7. That is all it took to confirm what I expected: it shifts badly.
Because my Biogon Contax 28 G also shifts on it, though less so, this suggests that the 7 is pretty close to where the original 5 was for colour shift. No idea at all how people can say that the wide CVs will be all right on the 7 when they are already troublesome on the 5N, which is significantly better. I also don't know how wide the Leica go before the 7 starts shifting. 28 should be OK, 24: maybe, wider than that doubtful. WATE, I'd love to see a simple blue sky shot with it. That is IMHO the simplest and best test for colour shift.
 

etrigan63

Active member
Philber,
I have heard other reports that the Zeiss 18mm is fine on the NEX-7. How are you processing the shot? JPEG SoC or RAW?
 

uhoh7

New member
Philber,
I have heard other reports that the Zeiss 18mm is fine on the NEX-7. How are you processing the shot? JPEG SoC or RAW?
Shift is one thing--edges are the real issue.

In truth, the Zm shifts on the 5n too, but it's subtle--I never bother fixing them


zm 18 on 5n

you need clouds on top of the frame to judge shift ;)

philber made me buy it last nov.
 

JimBuchanan

New member
I skipped the 5N and received the NEX7 a few days ago. Althought, NEX7 users have reported the color shift and smeared edges of rangefinder wides, I had to see it for myself. At first, I was very disappointed in the Heliar 15, ZM25, and even the 35 Summicron ASPH, image quality improving with focal length. The Heliar is unusable on the NEX7, in my opinion. I'm starting to accept the strain the NEX7 is putting on the otherwise excellent ZM25. There is corner color shift and even a little lateral CA at the edge.

The high pixel count and small pixels bring out every little imperfection of the lenses. My alarm with the 35 Summicron ASPH wasn't so much the corners but the added effort to get sharp focus with such high resolution.

I was thinking the ZM18 is the answer for a wide on the NEX7, now I'm not so sure. The hole in my lens lineup is the effective 24-28mm range. Any ideas? SLR wides or a crop sensor wide zoom?
 
Jim, I have not jet received the nex7, but have meanwhile bought an elmarit r 19 2,8.(type 2)
Test made on m4/3 with a 12 MP sensor (pixel density equivalent to that of the 24 MP
APS/C sensor) confirm that this lens easily out resolve the sensor. The 19 is strongly tele centric, no expected issues on the Sony.
Sergio
 
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