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NEX-7 + CV, and Zeiss ZM lenses

kuau

Workshop Member
Just curious, for those who were lucky enough to have received the NEX-7, I foolishly ordered mine from Amazon the day it was announced and still no ship date :mad:

Oh well I saw the original post from the picture desk teasing all the Zeiss ZM lenses on a pre production NEX -7, but have not seen many tests using CV M lenses only leica m glass..

Steve
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Photos made with the small, symmetrical design CV lenses should show up the same issues that the Zeiss Biogons show.
 

kuau

Workshop Member
Godfrey,
sorry could you be a little more specific, I don't understand lens design to much.
Maybe a quick list of M mount lenses to stay away from would be helpful.
I read somewhere that the zeiss zm 18 is a good performer, though not sure.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Photos made with the small, symmetrical design CV lenses should show up the same issues that the Zeiss Biogons show.
This may be considered a nit-pick (to me it isn't).

No biogon that I know is really "symmetrical". None of the oft discussed CV (superwide to wide range) lenses are symmetrical in design either. This "symmetric" design and hence the problem is a vast oversimplification of the issues at hand.
 

jonoslack

Active member
This may be considered a nit-pick (to me it isn't).

No biogon that I know is really "symmetrical". None of the oft discussed CV (superwide to wide range) lenses are symmetrical in design either. This "symmetric" design and hence the problem is a vast oversimplification of the issues at hand.
HI Vivek - Like Steve, I'm no expert in lens design. I understood 'symmetrical' to refer to the fact that the distance from the diaphragm of the lens to the front was the same as the distance to the film plane - whereas retro-focal lenses have a larger distance to the film plane (like SLR lenses). Probably it's a generalisation. As such the wide angles will have an exit pupil much closer to the film plane (and thus much steeper angle of incidence)

Still - Steve - most of the modern leica lenses are 'definitely' retro-focal, and these will work well on the NEX7 (e.g. the 24 'lux, WATE) an exception is the 28 elmarit.

I guess this doesn't help at all . .
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
This may be considered a nit-pick (to me it isn't).

No biogon that I know is really "symmetrical". None of the oft discussed CV (superwide to wide range) lenses are symmetrical in design either. This "symmetric" design and hence the problem is a vast oversimplification of the issues at hand.
Yes, it is a nit-pick. You in particular know exactly what I meant ... I don't know a better way to express it quickly.

Unfortunately I don't have time for a longer, clarifying post. Nor do I have extensive information about precisely which CV lenses have been tested on the NEX 7 ... I don't own a NEX 7 to test with. However, from what I have seen with other lenses of design similar to the Skopar 21, 24, 28, Heliar 12 and 15, I believe the NEX 7 will have problems with them just as the NEX 5 does. The NEX 5n has a different sensor which, either by design or happenstance, seems to do much better with these lenses than other NEX models.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Has anyone tried Canon EF lenses such as the 50mm f/1.8 or the 28mm f/2.8 on the NEXs?
I don't know whether a mount adapter even exists for Canon EF to NEX.

The issue with these lenses is that the iris mechanism is actuated electronically, so the lens needs power and the correct signals from the body in order to be able to set the lens opening to anything other than wide open. For this reason they are generally not a particularly good choice for adaptation to other lens mounts.
 

kuau

Workshop Member
HI Vivek - Like Steve, I'm no expert in lens design. I understood 'symmetrical' to refer to the fact that the distance from the diaphragm of the lens to the front was the same as the distance to the film plane - whereas retro-focal lenses have a larger distance to the film plane (like SLR lenses). Probably it's a generalisation. As such the wide angles will have an exit pupil much closer to the film plane (and thus much steeper angle of incidence)

Still - Steve - most of the modern leica lenses are 'definitely' retro-focal, and these will work well on the NEX7 (e.g. the 24 'lux, WATE) an exception is the 28 elmarit.

I guess this doesn't help at all . .
Jono it helps, If I want to go wide with my yet to be received NEX-7 looks like I need to start saving my pennies for a Leica WATE..
On my NEX-5n which I have now I use a CV 25mm Skopar, CV 40mm Nokton, and a Contax/Zeiss G 90mm F2.8 lenses, all of the above work very well with my NEX-5n.

I assume my CV 40, and Contax G 90 will work fine with the NEX-7.

Steve
 

clark666

New member
I don't know whether a mount adapter even exists for Canon EF to NEX.

The issue with these lenses is that the iris mechanism is actuated electronically, so the lens needs power and the correct signals from the body in order to be able to set the lens opening to anything other than wide open. For this reason they are generally not a particularly good choice for adaptation to other lens mounts.
Ok Thank you The plastic EF primes are nice because they are so light and small. There is an adapter available on eBay. So, the NEX will just set the exposure for a wide open lens unless the manual aperture on the adapter is reduced.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Ok Thank you The plastic EF primes are nice because they are so light and small. There is an adapter available on eBay. So, the NEX will just set the exposure for a wide open lens unless the manual aperture on the adapter is reduced.
Ok, I did a search. All of the ones I see include a warning like this:

Note: when using EOS lenses, you can only shoot with max. aperture of your lens.
The main reason I think these exist is that there are many mount adapters which enable other SLR lenses to be used on Canon EOS SLRs. So if you own, say, Nikon, Pentax and Contax lenses and have been using them with adapters on your Canon 5D, you can use all of them on a NEX camera for the price of a single dumb adapter.

There are many other choices that are better for adaptation than the Canon EF lenses because they allow aperture control. :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
OK, Godfrey, nit-pick on my part since there isn't much more useful information.:eek: When I get some time, I will post some at length with actual examples of true symmetrical lenses and the ones being discussed here.

FWIW, the CV15 does poorly (ie., past ~1.5m focus) on the NEX-7. Some may consider this useful for artistic expression though. LOL.

At close ranges up-to 0.7meters, it is quite decent! If one can put up with a slow lens with a fairly restricted range or is going to do close range shooting, it is OK.

I don't have a CV21 anymore but I would expect to be poorer (it is a less sharp lens than the 15mm).
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Jono it helps, If I want to go wide with my yet to be received NEX-7 looks like I need to start saving my pennies for a Leica WATE..
On my NEX-5n which I have now I use a CV 25mm Skopar, CV 40mm Nokton, and a Contax/Zeiss G 90mm F2.8 lenses, all of the above work very well with my NEX-5n.

I assume my CV 40, and Contax G 90 will work fine with the NEX-7.
Yes, the NEX 5n seems to do pretty well with most RF lenses. I think you're save with the 40 and 90 mm lenses on the 7.

I haven't seen results from the WATE on the NEX 7 yet ... Have you tried that setup, Jono? (It's not necessarily true that a particular retrofocus design RF lens will always work well, it's just more likely.) I'd hate to see you save up for such an expensive lens and have it turn out not to work very well.

Probably the best short focal length lenses for the NEX 7 are adapted SLR lenses if the native mount 16mm isn't up to snuff. There's also the Zeiss 25/1.8 lens that Sony is offering. I'd probably look carefully at those two first if I were going to buy a NEX 7.

Other than those, there are some beautiful, compact Olympus OM lenses that are the equal of anything, as well as some great Nikkors, Contax/Zeiss and Leica R lenses that should fulfill your needs for a wide-angle focal length nicely. (The Nikkor 20mm f/3.5 AI-S is one of my long-time favorites ... I used it on Olympus and Panasonic FourThirds SLR and Panasonic Micro-FourThirds with very satisfactory results for a couple of years.)
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
.. FWIW, the CV15 does poorly (ie., past ~1.5m focus) on the NEX-7. ...
I don't have a CV21 anymore but I would expect to be poorer (it is a less sharp lens than the 15mm).
Interesting comment about the CV 21. Mine performs beautifully with the Ricoh GXR, extremely sharp and contrasty edge to edge. I have a 20x35 inch canvas wrap hanging in the living room which was made from about 2/3 of the area of a Ricoh GXR exposure using this lens. It's wonderfully sharp everywhere.

Similarly, a bunch of exposures made last month with the Leica M4-2 seem very sharp and contrasty edge to edge.

Was yours the current M-bayonet lens or an older LTM lens? Perhaps there's a difference.

I'll be interested to see your examples when you get around to it.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Ahh, the GXR, I am really going to get one when it is possible.

The 15 vs 21 comment should be qualified, I think.

On film, (at one point I was walking around with a Bessa or a Leica CL) and 3 lenses. The CV-15, CV-21, and an Orion-15 28/6 (all LTM lenses, and coincidentally silver colored, not that it makes any difference in their optics/performance). The CV15 showed an noticeable edge over the CV21.

I also have several LTM/M mount lenses. Most aren't used or won't be used on the NEX-7 only because the lenses with the corresponding focal lengths from Olympus pen F are so much better, in terms of versatility and performance, for my use.

Pen F lenses: I have already mentioned that the 40/1.4 is simply superb. The 38/1.8 appears to be poor. Have to recheck the 42/1.2. The 60/1.5 is nothing but stellar. Better on the 7 than the 5! Have to check the 25/2.8, 70/2, 100/3.5, 150/4, etc. after I locate them.

There are also odd adapted lenses I have around. Some are so tiny, I hope I can locate them! I am not kidding about this:


More compact than a body cap. by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

Sample using the above set-up from last December (we are a balmy +10C now):


Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr


Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Ahh, the GXR, I am really going to get one when it is possible.

The 15 vs 21 comment should be qualified, I think.

On film, (at one point I was walking around with a Bessa or a Leica CL) and 3 lenses. The CV-15, CV-21, and an Orion-15 28/6 (all LTM lenses, and coincidentally silver colored, not that it makes any difference in their optics/performance). The CV15 showed an noticeable edge over the CV21.

I also have several LTM/M mount lenses. Most aren't used or won't be used on the NEX-7 only because the lenses with the corresponding focal lengths from Olympus pen F are so much better, in terms of versatility and performance, for my use.

Pen F lenses: I have already mentioned that the 40/1.4 is simply superb. The 38/1.8 appears to be poor. Have to recheck the 42/1.2. The 60/1.5 is nothing but stellar. Better on the 7 than the 5! Have to check the 25/2.8, 70/2, 100/3.5, 150/4, etc. after I locate them.
...
I used the CV 15 with the CL too. It performed well and proved much handier (if not quite as competent) as the Contax G Zeiss Hologon 16mm. But I didn't have a 21mm until I bought the latest with M-bayonet mount, and I sold the 15mm ages ago when I sold all of my Leica equipment (2002 ...). Yeah, should have hung onto it. All of it. Oh well.

Yes, you really should try the GXR. It seems a pretty special camera to me.

I had the Pen F 40mm f/1.4 when I was shooting with the G1. It's a fine piece, but not a lot different from the Konica 40/1.8 which I could use on both G1 and E-1. Unfortunately, Olympus Pen F lenses don't adapt easily to M-bayonet mount so I've sold all of them. The M-bayonet lenses I've used on the GXR are proving to be just fine so I don't miss the others.
 

kit laughlin

Subscriber Member
@ Vivek and Godfrey: what lens, then, might give us 20-24 EFOV on a NEX 7?

I have the other focal lengths covered, but I really need one UWA, and moreover, one free of distortion, or having simple-to-correct distortion. I had been hoping that the CV 15 might be that lens, but it seems not.

Cheers and Happy New Year to you both
kl
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
@ Vivek and Godfrey: what lens, then, might give us 20-24 EFOV on a NEX 7?

I have the other focal lengths covered, but I really need one UWA, and moreover, one free of distortion, or having simple-to-correct distortion. I had been hoping that the CV 15 might be that lens, but it seems not.

Cheers and Happy New Year to you both
kl

What I red is that the Zeiss zm 18/4 works good on the NEX 7, not the the Biogons and the VC 15/4.5
Look in the Ricoh thread of the Rangefinderforum. Malland uses it a lot and likes it very much. Good info.
He is also very enthousiastic about the GXR with the A12 module.

Michiel
 

Chris C

Member
.... there are some beautiful, compact Olympus OM lenses that are the equal of anything..........
Maybe I've missed the answer, but would a Nex/OM adapter deliver stopped down use of OM lenses? If yes; I can see the price of these legacy OM lenses rising.

Apologies if I'm being thick about how adapters work.

............ Chris
 

Jonas

Active member
Maybe I've missed the answer, but would a Nex/OM adapter deliver stopped down use of OM lenses? If yes; I can see the price of these legacy OM lenses rising.

Apologies if I'm being thick about how adapters work.

............ Chris
Yes.
A longer reply is Yes and No; When the micro 4/3 entered the world (the G1) there were some OM--> µ4/3 adapters sold which lacked the pin needed for locking the aparture function in the stopped down position but of lately I haven't heard of any OM--> E-mount adapters not having the pin. So, the iris closes down and opens up as you turn the aperture ring on those lenses.
 
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