NEX7 Frustrations

[glenerrolrd]

As I box up my brand new Sony Nex 7 to return to the dealer , it seemed worthwhile to check my experience with what others are seeing . Quick background my primary system is the M9 and Leica lenses , use LR4 for processing and hoped that the Nex7 would allow me to have a 180FOV (using the 135APO) . I hoped for better ISO but the early adopters convinced me not expect that .

This is what I have experienced ....not at all scientific and clearly open to questionable technique.

1. Focus Peaking ...intending to use only manual focus with 50-135mm Leica M lenses . Focus peaking is exceptional in some situations ..generally at closer distances with a clear edge or highlight to catch . Shooting at a distance ..I found it almost impossible to accurately focus on a target on the beach at anything over 100FT . At the closest focusing distances with a predominate target its pretty great...but a fisherman walking on the beach at 50 yards with a 135 apo wide open ....maybe one in 3 or 4. I am sure I have much to learn here .

2. Camera motion ....hand held getting camera motion with a 50 mm at 1/250 .. the 135 needs 1/500 ....I am used to the high MP small pixel challenge from my S2 but this seems worse and for what . The M9 is 18MP and the Nex 7 at 23MP.

3. Noise ... properly exposed files at even ISO 400 show degraded IQ from noise . This kills its high IQ in low light .

4. Color ....with LR4 and the adobe standard profile ..this has to be the worst color I ve experienced in years . With a custom profile created with a color checker passport and a custom preset ...I could get a good file but this was anything but easy . My Fuji X100 was easy and ISO up to 3200 was very usable .

From my limited testing I don t believe this is good addition to my M9 kit and thus I am returning it . It always depends on what your needs and expectations are and its easy to see the potential but haven t found this camera brings enough to the party to continue working on it .

Are my findings consistent with others or do I need to take another look?

 

[Vivek]

Are my findings consistent with others or do I need to take another look?

It is with mine.

1. Focus peaking-useless.
2. Tiny body (I am trying to bulk it up).
3. Yes, on the noise.
4. Yes, here as well. I have developed color profiles for each and every lens and for various lighting to have some modicum of acceptability for my eyes. WB sucks for manual lenses. It is a different story when it comes to the E lenses though!

I am still keeping mine and I have no plans to buy an M9.

 

[shelt59]

1) Regarding focusing, I use peaking, set on low, to get me close. In fact, on low, it's pretty accurate. There is too much error on med and high. I have the af/mf button programmed for zoom focusing with a press, so I just punch it with my thumb while looking through the EVF. I get excellent focus that way. I have very few OOF shots. I actually love shooting this way -- not sure I'd change it at all.

The longest lens I regularly use is a G 90, so focusing with the frame zoomed is pretty easy.

2) Agree. We really need adjustable auto ISO settings. I like to generally shoot Aperture Priority, and would love to set a high minimum speed and, say, max 1000 ISO. I do see motion blur even at 1/2xFL if I'm not careful!

3) There is a fair bit of noise, but I'm generally happy with how LR4 can handle it. OTOH, the ability to pull detail out of shadows and highlights blows me away.. Great dynamic range, yet fairly noisy -- strange.

4) I've struggled with color as well. I'm back to adobe standard, with some saturation and vibrancy adjustment. I mostly shoot landscapes, so haven't fought with skin tones much!

I've never had an M digital, so most of my perspective comes from using the D700 and 5Dm2. Overall, I love the NEX-7. I would love a NEX-7n or 6 even more (5n sensor in a 7 body). My only real unhappiness has been trying to use WA RF lenses. I finally got the CV 15 to an acceptable place (with cornerfix, f/5.6-8, and focus at 2m), and I use the excellent ZA e 24 f/1.8 for 35mm equivalent, so I'm OK with the solution for now. My longer lenses like the ZM50 and Contax G 90 are outstanding on the 7.

 

[Joe S]

As I box up my brand new Sony Nex 7 to return to the dealer , it seemed worthwhile to check my experience with what others are seeing . Quick background my primary system is the M9 and Leica lenses , use LR4 for processing and hoped that the Nex7 would allow me to have a 180FOV (using the 135APO) . I hoped for better ISO but the early adopters convinced me not expect that .

This is what I have experienced ....not at all scientific and clearly open to questionable technique.

1. Focus Peaking ...intending to use only manual focus with 50-135mm Leica M lenses . Focus peaking is exceptional in some situations ..generally at closer distances with a clear edge or highlight to catch . Shooting at a distance ..I found it almost impossible to accurately focus on a target on the beach at anything over 100FT . At the closest focusing distances with a predominate target its pretty great...but a fisherman walking on the beach at 50 yards with a 135 apo wide open ....maybe one in 3 or 4. I am sure I have much to learn here .


Focus peaking does seem to be somewhat hit or miss but mostly hit in my experience. Image magnification gives me the most accurate focusing I have ever experienced.


2. Camera motion ....hand held getting camera motion with a 50 mm at 1/250 .. the 135 needs 1/500 ....I am used to the high MP small pixel challenge from my S2 but this seems worse and for what . The M9 is 18MP and the Nex 7 at 23MP.


I don't understand, are you saying that because of the high resolution that camera motion is more noticeable when pixel peeking? I assume we mostly hold similar cameras steady to a similar degree. The electronic front curtain option would seem to give the Nex an advantage over a convention shutter.


3. Noise ... properly exposed files at even ISO 400 show degraded IQ from noise . This kills its high IQ in low light .

I don't have an M9 but the Nex 7 is a gigantic improvement over my M8. I do find with modern noise controls in post processing that noise is a much bigger issue pixel peeking than it is in actual prints.


4. Color ....with LR4 and the adobe standard profile ..this has to be the worst color I ve experienced in years . With a custom profile created with a color checker passport and a custom preset ...I could get a good file but this was anything but easy . My Fuji X100 was easy and ISO up to 3200 was very usable .


I only shoot for black and white so I have no experience here.



From my limited testing I don t believe this is good addition to my M9 kit and thus I am returning it . It always depends on what your needs and expectations are and its easy to see the potential but haven t found this camera brings enough to the party to continue working on it .

Are my findings consistent with others or do I need to take another look?

I really love the Nex 7 and the output I am getting. The resolution of fine details is amazing. I have only used Leica lenses on it and can't comment on the kit lens. I was never comfortable with the horribly inaccurate brightlines in the M8. Looking through the very good finder through wide and longer lenses instead of clip on finders is a great improvement. Framing with the 135mm and using focus magnification works very well for me. With a 35mm Summicron it is a great walk around camera and on a tripod the landscape image quality is fantastic. Yes there is some softness in the corners of very wide lenses but I find it not to be such a big deal in actual photography. I am looking forward to firmware upgrades because the interface does not live up to its potential and setting up the camera to work with manual focus needs improvement. For instance, moving image magnification up to the AF/MF button made a big improvement for me. Like everything else it's personal but I have become really fond of this camera.

 

[Paratom]

As I box up my brand new Sony Nex 7 to return to the dealer , it seemed worthwhile to check my experience with what others are seeing . Quick background my primary system is the M9 and Leica lenses , use LR4 for processing and hoped that the Nex7 would allow me to have a 180FOV (using the 135APO) . I hoped for better ISO but the early adopters convinced me not expect that .

This is what I have experienced ....not at all scientific and clearly open to questionable technique.

1. Focus Peaking ...intending to use only manual focus with 50-135mm Leica M lenses . Focus peaking is exceptional in some situations ..generally at closer distances with a clear edge or highlight to catch . Shooting at a distance ..I found it almost impossible to accurately focus on a target on the beach at anything over 100FT . At the closest focusing distances with a predominate target its pretty great...but a fisherman walking on the beach at 50 yards with a 135 apo wide open ....maybe one in 3 or 4. I am sure I have much to learn here .

2. Camera motion ....hand held getting camera motion with a 50 mm at 1/250 .. the 135 needs 1/500 ....I am used to the high MP small pixel challenge from my S2 but this seems worse and for what . The M9 is 18MP and the Nex 7 at 23MP.

3. Noise ... properly exposed files at even ISO 400 show degraded IQ from noise . This kills its high IQ in low light .

4. Color ....with LR4 and the adobe standard profile ..this has to be the worst color I ve experienced in years . With a custom profile created with a color checker passport and a custom preset ...I could get a good file but this was anything but easy . My Fuji X100 was easy and ISO up to 3200 was very usable .

From my limited testing I don t believe this is good addition to my M9 kit and thus I am returning it . It always depends on what your needs and expectations are and its easy to see the potential but haven t found this camera brings enough to the party to continue working on it .

Are my findings consistent with others or do I need to take another look?

1. I also find focus peaking of limited use. When I us the Nex, I use Nex lenses and AF

2. I can not confirm your blur problem

3. Noise is not as good as many said, but I also find the Nex bad as you describe it. Up to ISO 1000 the M9 has a better noise behavior IMO

4. Color I dont find bad but also here I prefer the color of the Leica over the Nex7 (regarding skin, and the Nex7 in "bulb" light color seems to yellow and not so easy to correct.

I havent given up the Nex7 yet but in the end the M9 works better for still, the Pana 707 works better for video. I might keep either the Nex7 or maybe rather the 5n with the kit lens as a small alternative all in one if I dont want to carry the M9.

Overall I still find the Nex to be a very good camera, and we should also not forgive that it costs only 1/3 of a M9.

 

[alphaman]

I have to say that the experience you have had is alien to me. Doesn't sound at all like my NEX7. Some people also had very differing experience of the A77, perhaps there were some early batch inconsistencies? In any case I got a good one!

Having said all that, I have recently had an experience that showed me that what I took to be a tiny difference in quality (in this case with the sharpness of a lens wide open) meant that one person was entirely happy and the other was greatly upset. I personally think that human perception of quality differences can be a very strange thing.

Now I haven't had the use of a M9 to compare a NEX7 to, and perhaps if I was rich enough to own an M9, everything else would pale into insignificance...

 

[monza]

I personally think that human perception of quality differences can be a very strange thing.

Forum understatement of the year!

Overall I still find the Nex to be a very good camera, and we should also not forgive that it costs only 1/3 of a M9.

I am ready to buy an M9 for $3600.

 

[Vivek]

Now I haven't had the use of a M9 to compare a NEX7 to, and perhaps if I was rich enough to own an M9, everything else would pale into insignificance...

I can buy a pair of M9s and a set of new primes. The problem I have though is that the whole thing is supposed to appreciate in value at the rate of ~13% in 2 years, provided-this is the catch- the whole thing is "babied". Not gonna happen with me in this lifetime. If I have the best gear there is, i will tend to use them . It is this usage part (not kitchen bokeh stuff) that is likely to make the value depreciate very rapidly. What kind foolishness would that be!

 

[monza]

Just make sure you buy the black lenses and bodies so you don't have to use a sharpie.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Thanks to all the feedback . No question IQ can often be in the eye of the beholder and can depend on heavily on both the type of photography (landscape ,portraits ,sport,street etc). The lenses you use ..wide verse long,AF verse MF , OEM verse alternative all factor in. I have good friends that love this camera but their intended use is just different than how I would use it . AF for example is important to them and I would only use MF with focus peaking.

My standard of performance is the Leica M with the best M lenses . Short of MF pretty much as good as it gets . To create images that would work with a Leica M as the other camera ..its a extreme standard . Since my tests used the Leica 50 1.4 asph and the 135 /3.4 APO ..its not the glass.

Post processing matters and while I would give Sony a pass on how Adobe interprets their color ...its not good right out of the camera . With a custom camera profile in the same light and with the same lens ..you see a night and day change in the color . With an M9 its very small . The Jpeg color looks much better which causes me to think its a weak conversion in LR . (similar to what the S2 experienced when it first came out). My expectation is that the camera raw file should provide an approximation of the MacBeth color chart without significant adjustments . Color interpretation is fine in a jpeg but there is some logic to starting with a standard ..then if you want to adjust to a different palette it should not be an issue .

I am quite sure that there is much I don t understand about the Sony Nex 7 and in all fairness it wasn t designed to match up with leica M lenses from 50-135. And I am using LR4 which is probably not optimized for the Sony raw conversion.

 

[ken_vs_ryu]

How long have you had the camera?

 

[jonoslack]

I can buy a pair of M9s and a set of new primes. The problem I have though is that the whole thing is supposed to appreciate in value at the rate of ~13% in 2 years, provided-this is the catch- the whole thing is "babied". Not gonna happen with me in this lifetime. If I have the best gear there is, i will tend to use them . It is this usage part (not kitchen bokeh stuff) that is likely to make the value depreciate very rapidly. What kind foolishness would that be!

Don't expect the bodies to appreciate!
As for babying. My kit gets used every day. I do make sure that they don't bang into each other in tha bag, but that's it. No filters, no cases the only lens I have with significant marks is one I fell over with on a Cretan scree. ( and that would be fine if I paid to replace the lens hood!). They could all do with a scrub, but then they'd look as good as new.

The boxes and leather cases are mint. (I have a good cupboard!)

They weren't bought as an investment, but there isn't one which isn't worth as much as when I bought it.

And anyway. The prices of bashed up lenses doesn't seem to drop much.

I predict you'll have an m9 by the end of the year (I can see a man weakening!)

 

[camping]

2 Camera Motion -- have you considered the fact that the M9 and Nex 7 do not have the same mass -- so the lighter Nex 7 might have more torque. Might add some weights to your Nex 7 http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

 

[glenerrolrd]

How long have you had the camera?

Ken

I have had the camera for a few days and have used it 3 times in locations I typically shoot. I have a nice pier into the ocean that I shoot at whenever I want to do a test .

I shared my experience to date because I don t believe that further refinement of my technique will change my impressions . I am interested to see if my impressions are similar to what others are seeing.

Each issue I listed is a relevant limitation to my specific shooting requirements which of course may be different than others . I don t need another camera system and am not debating Sony verse anything but rather trying to extend my M system capabilities . From what I have seen and has been discussed this camera doesn t seem to fit .

What do you think ?

 

[glenerrolrd]

2 Camera Motion -- have you considered the fact that the M9 and Nex 7 do not have the same mass -- so the lighter Nex 7 might have more torque. Might add some weights to your Nex 7 http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/images/smilies/popcorn.gif

Yes that is a reasonable explanation but limits the utility of the Nex 7 . Adding a light weight small Nex7 body to an existing M kit with a 135apo should provide a 180FOV ..just enough to extend the M system into many DSLR only shoots . This isn t a knock on the Nex 7 but just an example of a poor fit for my application.

 

[Paratom]

Forum understatement of the year!
I am ready to buy an M9 for $3600.

Nex 7 here is 1200 Euro.
Ok, so maybe 1/4.

 

[Paratom]

Ken

I have had the camera for a few days and have used it 3 times in locations I typically shoot. I have a nice pier into the ocean that I shoot at whenever I want to do a test .

I shared my experience to date because I don t believe that further refinement of my technique will change my impressions . I am interested to see if my impressions are similar to what others are seeing.

Each issue I listed is a relevant limitation to my specific shooting requirements which of course may be different than others . I don t need another camera system and am not debating Sony verse anything but rather trying to extend my M system capabilities . From what I have seen and has been discussed this camera doesn t seem to fit .

What do you think ?

Which capabilities did you plan to "extend" with the Nex?
A little more telereach due to a cropped sensor?
I ak myself which was your real motivation to buy this camera. What do you except fro it?
If you tell as we can tell you our opinion.

 

[alphaman]

... 2. Camera motion ....hand held getting camera motion with a 50 mm at 1/250 .. the 135 needs 1/500 ....

I tried this out last night as it seemed a bit strange to me and I was able to hand hold at 1/20th with a 35mm lens and at 1/50th with a 90mm lens and get sharp results.

I'm not posting this to boast but simply to demonstrate that your experience has been quite different to mine. Maybe it's technique, maybe it's something to do with the ergonomics of the camera not suiting your size/shape of hands - who knows? I think it's safe to say that not all cameras suit all people.

As to focus peaking, I found that quite satisfactory although it does need the magnified view for critical work/wide aperture shooting in my experience. I have had years of using manual focus cameras and so once I corrected the eyepiece diopter to suit my eyes, I was quite happy. I have to say that while the NEX7 viewfinder is an improvement on the A55 for manual focusing, it is not as good as a good SLR such as my former R7.

As to noise, I don't mind a bit of noise. I think that Sony have some catching up to do compared to Canon for example, but I am quite happy, particularly as I shoot RAW and aren't dependent on jpgs.

As I implied in my last post, perhaps the NEX is a poor alternative for a M9 user.

 

[Vivek]

I predict you'll have an m9 by the end of the year (I can see a man weakening!)

Hi Jono, We shall see what is with this B&W sensor.

M9, no, thank you.

 

[Paratom]

Nex 7 wheels turn too easy

I wonder if I am the only one who thinks that the Nex7 wheels turn way to easy??? There is allmost no resistance. Why dont these wheels click like wheels of nearly every other camera.
This is IMO the biggest desgin fault in the Nex7 (besides the position of the movie button)