The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

Sony RX1

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The lens of this camera alone is quite a feat and is a major part of the cost. Going small isn't cheap.
In that case, the lens of the X100 is sensational, being much smaller and sold for a third of the price including a hybrid viewfinder that sits inside the camera where it belongs, not on top of it.

Sorry if I sound a bit sarcastic here, but I have problems seeing what this camera is all about. It's small, yes, but there are other small (smaller) cameras around. Full frame by all means, but at 35mm focal length I doubt it will make much of a difference compared to the excellent smaller sensors now available.

I get a feeling that this is kind of a world record attempt by Sony. They do it because they can, and if someone is actually willing to pay $3,000 for this p&s, good for them, but I find it about as useful as a Formula 1 car.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Interestingly, the RX1 is larger (516 vs. 507 cubic cm.) than the Fuji X100 as well as heavier (482 vs. 445 grams) in spite of the Fuji having a built in viewfinder. Being considerably shallower (53.9 vs. 69.6 mm), the Fuji is also much easier to fit into a large pocket of a coat or cargo shorts/pants.

And of course, one comes rather close to buying the Fuji for the price of the add-on viewfinder for the Sony :loco:
 

pophoto

New member
Jorgen: if Fuji fixes its AF issues, they will be the company leading the way with mirror less cameras! Like you said despite not being FF.
 
Interestingly, the RX1 is larger (516 vs. 507 cubic cm.) than the Fuji X100 as well as heavier (482 vs. 445 grams) in spite of the Fuji having a built in viewfinder. Being considerably shallower (53.9 vs. 69.6 mm), the Fuji is also much easier to fit into a large pocket of a coat or cargo shorts/pants.

And of course, one comes rather close to buying the Fuji for the price of the add-on viewfinder for the Sony :loco:
I think your arguments are all valid Jorgen, and if I was to buy this type of camera today, I would likely go with the XE-1 and the new 23mm for a considerable less amount of money.

However, I can't stop getting a big grin looking at what Sony has done. While some believe that APS-C is the new FF in the compact space, I strongly disagree. Maybe it was a few days ago but Sony just took a big step towards the inevitable. Manufacturers are looking for differentiators and FF is hot (or at least getting hotter), whether the market needs it or not. Cameras like the D600 are lowering the entry bar and camera stores will be pushing FF as an upgrade path for crop camera owners. The RX1 will add to that vision of "FF is the prize" and hopefully with some further technological advances we will see FF digital cameras in the same form factor and size as the luxury compacts of yesteryear.

Sorry about the rambling diatribe but I have to support Sony's effort here, even if I won't be purchasing.

Best,
Chad
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I think your arguments are all valid Jorgen, and if I was to buy this type of camera today, I would likely go with the XE-1 and the new 23mm for a considerable less amount of money.

However, I can't stop getting a big grin looking at what Sony has done. While some believe that APS-C is the new FF in the compact space, I strongly disagree. Maybe it is was a few days ago but Sony just took a big step towards the inevitable. Manufacturers are looking for differentiators and FF is hot (or at least getting hotter), whether the market needs it or not. Cameras like the D600 are lowering the entry bar and camera stores will be pushing FF as an upgrade path for crop camera owners. The RX1 will add to that vision of "FF is the prize" and hopefully with some further technological advances we will see FF digital cameras in the same form factor and size as the luxury compacts of yesteryear.

Sorry about the rambling diatribe but I have to support Sony's effort here, even if I won't be purchasing.

Best,
Chad
I agree that FF is great, and a NEX with that sensor size would probably make a lot of sense, at least if they introduce lenses to match. Still, they will be at the bottom of a very steep uphill climb. Fuji has done some amazing work with the sensors and lenses of their X-series cameras, and if history is any indication, Sony will struggle to match the high ISO performance of the X-Pro1, even with a larger sensor. Add to that the hybrid viewfinder, and the Fujis can be used for applications where mirrorless cameras have been at a disadvantage with their all-electronic interface.

Then of course there's m4/3. Watch out for the GH3. I have a feeling that it will compete with both NEX and Alpha cameras, including the A99, for any application that doesn't specifically require the properties of a large sensor, like extremely shallow DOF.
 

pophoto

New member
... But it's ultimately a technical exercise! Having owned the Leica X2, the 24mm(35mm equivalent), it's very similar except the sensor size and perhaps the AF speed. The 35mm became a limiting factor for me very quickly and its max aperture of f/2.8 in an APS-C sensor won't be a match to the FF f/2.

Now making an EVF or OVF hump is just silly for two reasons 1) build a beautiful camera only to make it the hunchback of notre dame with add on EVF/OVF 2) pay silly money for something a pro camera should have built in, period.

The Sony RX1 is like a track car, it has some gorgeous specs on paper, Somewhat pricey and limited use. There will be many who are glad it exists, there will be fewer owners, and those who buy it and end up using it often after the honeymoon period is over, fewer still!

I will also add, I am glad they are releasing track cars, and hope there will be more, it's fun!
 

biglouis

Well-known member
It will be a very nice city walk around camera indeed, Louis.
That's for sure, but at this price point I will probably buy myself a DP 1 or 2 Merrill for cityscapes. (in daylight)

Michiel
I've always dismissed Sigma foveon cameras but thanks for pointing this one out. I am seriously tempted by the DP2, and thinking perhaps the DP1 could replace my Fuji GSW690III which is doing serious damage to my back.

Off to check out the samples in the 'other' thread!

Louis
 

Bugleone

Well-known member
In a comparison (last week) on the 'Luminous-Landscape' site, the Sigma DP-2 Merill produced superior image quality to most/all other hand cameras and was nearly equivalent to the Leica M9.......And, it's only about 800 USD, if I remember.......

......Actually, if the Sony is going to be £4000 in the UK it makes the Leica M9 suddenly look like good value for money at £5000, since it'a available at European prices being a European product.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
In a comparison (last week) on the 'Luminous-Landscape' site, the Sigma DP-2 Merill produced superior image quality to most/all other hand cameras and was nearly equivalent to the Leica M9.......And, it's only about 800 USD, if I remember.......

......Actually, if the Sony is going to be £4000 in the UK it makes the Leica M9 suddenly look like good value for money at £5000, since it'a available at European prices being a European product.
I dont know about the dp-2 Merill but have owned the original dp1 and dp2 for some time. While DR and detail at base iso was enourmous, I found color to be lets say "special"/"different". And when you went up in OS color even got more problematic (skin looked dead).
I am sure the Merill has been improved though, but compared to the dp1 and dp2 I found the Leica x1 much more usefull and flexible regarding IQ in various conditions.

For the RX1 - sounds great in one way but for my part I think the price of a x100 or a x1/x2 would be the max Iwould want to pay for a small compact with a prime. And lets not forget that with a viewfinder and with that lens the rx1 is not really a pocket camera.
I am not sure yet if I like this size-too big for a pocket camera but too small to handle really nice and well. But for others it might be just right.
For the same money I would personally rather buy a x-pro 1 with 21 and 35mm and a rx100 when it gets small.
 

raist3d

Well-known member
In a comparison (last week) on the 'Luminous-Landscape' site, the Sigma DP-2 Merill produced superior image quality to most/all other hand cameras and was nearly equivalent to the Leica M9.......And, it's only about 800 USD, if I remember.......

......Actually, if the Sony is going to be £4000 in the UK it makes the Leica M9 suddenly look like good value for money at £5000, since it'a available at European prices being a European product.
That's only in good light (ideally full spectrum) and for the DP2M the camera already starts to fall apart as early as ISO 400. The Sony will not have that problem. The DR of the Sony I bet will be also better an the Sony uses 14-bit RAWS which help overall tones and noise/DR.

Not saying the DP2M doesn't have its merit and charm, but people who say it has the best image quality need to be careful how they quantify that. For even modicum lower light work the answer is absolutely not. And the new Foveon even has some rather weird color casts in shadows (sometimes) as early as ISO 100!

- Raist
 

raist3d

Well-known member
$3,400 with a viewfinder? Isn't this the company that sold the likewise full frame A850 for $2,000? I get a feeling that they charge this kind of price just because there's nothing like it. But there is. For that kind of money, I can buy an X-1Pro plus an RX100 for when I want small, getting the best of both worlds. Or an X100 and the RX100 and an OM-D. None of those are full frame, but with the qualities of those Fuji sensors and lenses, who cares anyway? 35mm isn't exactly portrait territory, so I can do well without the (limited) shallow DOF.

But maybe others can't?
Well as you said, there's nothing like it. Keep in mind the Sony has a leaf shutter so it must be pretty quiet. All the cameras you mentioned are good.

- Raist
 
V

Vivek

Guest
A leaf shutter is good. Beside being quiet would allow for very high flash sync shutter speeds. However, with the EVF port and the flash shoe in one place, it is half baked at best.
 

kipling

New member
It almost seems like sony had pitty on Leica. Had they made this camera with interchangeable Zeiss autofocus lenses, a 28mm, the 35mm, a fast 50mm and an 85mm, and put a hybrid finder in it...goodbye m10, hello long awaited Contax G3-D.
A smallish, flexible, real 35mm camera system with presumably incredible image quality, and leaf shutter AF Zeiss glass...I guess it'll happen soon enough.

I'm guessing this a the test balloon. It probably cost a fortune to do it, but not nearly as much as a whole system. Now they can see how it works, if it's something the market is interested in and what they can and must improve on to make it perfect, then they'll bring on the real deal as a whole system.
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
My guess is they are looking for something to go upmarket from the nex7 ..... and the RX1 is the test balloon to see if folks are really ready to plop down FF money on a compact.

and they are not just quite sure how to do it yet.

some weird dual mount thing .... E mount lenses + 3 zeiss primes

hybrid optical/EFF?

My guess is senior product managers are going to fight it out and we see what wins two years from now.

For my money, TODAY ( and that is what I buy gear for ) the OMD beat the NEX-7 due to lenses.

Dave
 

pophoto

New member
In a comparison (last week) on the 'Luminous-Landscape' site, the Sigma DP-2 Merill produced superior image quality to most/all other hand cameras and was nearly equivalent to the Leica M9.......And, it's only about 800 USD, if I remember.......

......Actually, if the Sony is going to be £4000 in the UK it makes the Leica M9 suddenly look like good value for money at £5000, since it'a available at European prices being a European product.
Good value for the M9? Not unless you already have lenses :)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
It almost seems like sony had pitty on Leica. Had they made this camera with interchangeable Zeiss autofocus lenses, a 28mm, the 35mm, a fast 50mm and an 85mm, and put a hybrid finder in it...goodbye m10, hello long awaited Contax G3-D.
A smallish, flexible, real 35mm camera system with presumably incredible image quality, and leaf shutter AF Zeiss glass...I guess it'll happen soon enough.

I'm guessing this a the test balloon. It probably cost a fortune to do it, but not nearly as much as a whole system. Now they can see how it works, if it's something the market is interested in and what they can and must improve on to make it perfect, then they'll bring on the real deal as a whole system.
I hope you are right! :)
 

pophoto

New member
Would anyone pay Leica money (or close) for a Sony if they did release a FF IL tomorrow?
(with an array of Zeiss AF lenses for Leica money too)
 
Top