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Sony RX1

Shashin

Shashin

Well-known member
barjohn said:
Looking at Luminous Landscapes side by side comparison shots of the Sigma DP2 Merrill and several cameras including the M9 and only a biased individual could claim that the flat looking M9 image was as good or even nearly as good as the sharp and nearly 3 dimensional DP2M image. Just look at the light bulbs where it is clearly evident.
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You mean the fuzzy our of focus image from the Merrill looks better than the fuzzy out of focus image from the M9? I think anyone claiming that they can make any kind of definite judgement of either of the images has a bias. :LOL:
 
barjohn

barjohn

New member
Really? They were both shot at f8 at 1/90 and 1/100 sec. I can see a clear difference and not just in that image but in the other exaples too. I don't own a DP2M and I probably won't ever own one despite the superior image quality. Michael is a big Leica fan and I trust that when he says it is nearly as good as an MF camera image he knows what he is talking about. I just couldn't tolerate the slow focus and performance of the camera as implimented by Sigma. I just hope the RX-1 produces images that are close to what I see in both LL's samples and in other samples I have seen of DP2M images.
 
Shashin

Shashin

Well-known member
I didn't think the Merrill/M9 images were very good as they are both soft. They are different. But hard to say which is better. The other examples seem to be more illustrative of the difference. But one things is unclear, while I think the Foveon sensor is special, it does not seem to have as much DR and I wonder if that added contrast is helping the appearance of the images and whether more contrast in the Bayer images would bring them closer. But the Merrill is a special camera.
 
Show Performance

Show Performance

Member
raist3d said:
Even at ISO 200 I saw a couple of issues and for some reason the files don't convert as easy as the DP2. The hyper detail has to be treated with care- like people who do HDR or the photograph is not as good due to the super pointilization of detail "calling attention" in a way that looks very digital, not like film. But that can be dealt with, with care and varies per subject.

- Raist
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I've been lurking over at the DP2M thread and I share this thought. Some shots do indeed look fantastic and I think it takes a certain type of subject to make the camera really shine, but overall, the images strike me as hyper-real, not a look I enjoy - especially on people.

Look around you, your eye does not see the way this camera renders, not even close. But I understand why some people like it, just like some like HDR, and I would never belittle that.

And I do seem to genuinely like the DP1M files as they don't appear to be quite so "hyper" and look a bit more like the scanned negatives from a Ricoh GR1 - excellent! Seriously thinking about picking one of those up and selling my Ricoh.

Anyway, the RX1 is clearly a different beast and I don't think it fair to compare the cameras in any way.
 
P

philip_pj

New member
Agree with all that, SP. I did some staring at two comapro images last night as the Merrill look is something that will require some thought and analysis, and experience with, perhaps. One was from a NEX7 + 24/1.8 CZ the other the eq. Merrill scales up by Quentin from memory.

Colour is just not as well presented in many Merrill images, and colour tonality looks 'odd', sorry for the lack of definition in my remarks at this stage. I had the distinct feeling - on seeing the ultra definition of the Merrill image - that what I wanted was a higher res version of the CZ image, some careful post work perhaps. Such was the more photographic look of the CZ lens, much more preferable to me.

This got me thinking that these spectacular things are a grand each for a kludgy camera you have to 'work with' on several large fronts. I think they might give Sony in particular and Canon as well, a kick along to introduce higher Mp Bayer cameras, to take full advantage of the better lens at present, plus the coming Zeiss series - CZ must have been in touch with Canon at the very least on their near term plans.

And a 36Mp Sony DSLR at the very least with downplayed video, and perhaps a higher Mp RX1, might be the result sooner rather than later. Pre orders for the A99 are not going well, from my reading. I wonder why...not.
 
S

sinwen

Member
bcm said:
Just had a thought. If Sony were to release high quality adapters that allowed the 35 to be converted into a 50 and an 85 why would you need an ILC FF camera?

No idea if it's possible or not.
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That's my wish, or a small zoom like the RX100. This avoid dust on the sensor.
But my first wish would be to cut the price in two :D
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
Some interest in this camera until I discovered that it doesn't have a sync port ... so the 1/2000 leaf shutter sync is basically useless.

Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.

-Marc
 
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pophoto

New member
fotografz said:
Some interest in this camera until I discovered that it doesn't have a sync port ... so the 1/2000 leaf shutter sync is basically useless.

Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.

-Marc
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Sony is business as usual, use more Sony products! So I'm guessing use with other Sony flash units rather than pro lighting gear!
 
Shashin

Shashin

Well-known member
fotografz said:
Some interest in this camera until I discovered that it doesn't have a sync port ... so the 1/2000 leaf shutter sync is basically useless.

Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.

-Marc
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Seriously, Marc? You mean I could not slip a wireless remote in the hot shoe? I really did not know you were interested.
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
Shashin said:
Seriously, Marc? You mean I could not slip a wireless remote in the hot shoe? I really did not know you were interested.
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Yes, initial mild interest because I use 35mm field-of-view a lot, and use strobes quite often with sync speeds to 1/750th or 1/800th on the Leica S2 and H4D/60. Plus, this little guy would be an interesting companion/emergency back-up to a A900 or A99 especially with an AF Zeiss 35mm prime which currently doesn't exist in the Alpha mount.

The feature that really caught my eye was the 1/2000th sync speed, which is pretty unique and highly desirable when coupled with a f/2 lens.

Unfortunately, most radio transmitters top out at 1/250 with focal plane shutter cameras, 1/500th with leaf shutters ... some like Profoto AIR go higher (1/1000th in fast mode depending on camera and uniquely 1/1,600th on the Phase DF), but none that I know of go to 1/2000th.

Depending on the strobe unit used and t.1 flash duration at any given setting, all sync speeds are available when hard wired.

The best radio for a camera this size is the tiny Microsync VM2T which tops out at 1/200th with focal plane and 1/350th with leaf-shutter cameras. Hardly 1/2000th :thumbdown:

Plus, with the EFV or analog finder in the hot shoe, there is no way to trigger a strobe or off-camera speed-light other than optically using the wimpy pop-up.

This Sony seems to only work with their wireless remote/speed-light ... which is all but useless at any longer distance, or in bright outdoor conditions where 1/2000th would be most useful. How the leaf-shutter works with their speed-lights remains to be seen. Imagine holding this little camera at arm's length to view the LCD, with their new HVL60 in the hot-shoe :ROTFL:

For a great amount of my mobile strobe work I use a TTL speed-light in the hot shoe for fill with a radio sender hardwired to the camera on a grip bracket to trigger the key strobe light. More importantly, I ALWAYS carry a standard sync cord as back-up to any radio system, and trust me have had to use them.

I had the same gripe about the M9, however, the new Leica M will accommodate this mobile configuration using the new multifunction grip which has a standard sync port ... and it has a way to shoot with camera to eye ... the rangefinder.

For almost $3K they could have put in a crummy little sync port ... IMHO.

-Marc
 
Shashin

Shashin

Well-known member
Sync speed is not a product of the transmitter, but the shutter and strobes. And 1/4000s is the leaf shutter sync at smaller apertures.

And for $10 you can use the OVF and a sync cable:

General Brand Hot Shoe to PC Adapter SF943 B&H Photo Video

What I find really interesting is not that this camera will not suit every photographer, but the way photographers dismiss equipment in blanket terms as rubbish including a nice jab to insult the people that make these things. Perhaps I have just had more experience with different camera types and can use cameras for their advantage and know that there is no such thing as a limited tool. You probably think that a camera like an Alpa TC is just over priced junk because it is a limited system, but there are plenty of photographers that can use a single lens TC setup and produce a widely various body of work. The Alpa TC is no more half-baked than an RX1. And if an RX1 is half baked, then so is an X2, X100, Hexar AF, 35Ti, and a whole host of highly regarded cameras.

And given your defense of the Leica S2 system when the D800 came out, your comments on the camera being half baked and its price are more mystifying.
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
Shashin said:
Sync speed is not a product of the transmitter, but the shutter and strobes. And 1/4000s is the leaf shutter sync at smaller apertures.

And for $10 you can use the OVF and a sync cable:

General Brand Hot Shoe to PC Adapter SF943 B&H Photo Video

What I find really interesting is not that this camera will not suit every photographer, but the way photographers dismiss equipment in blanket terms as rubbish including a nice jab to insult the people that make these things. Perhaps I have just had more experience with different camera types and can use cameras for their advantage and know that there is no such thing as a limited tool. You probably think that a camera like an Alpa TC is just over priced junk because it is a limited system, but there are plenty of photographers that can use a single lens TC setup and produce a widely various body of work. The Alpa TC is no more half-baked than an RX1. And if an RX1 is half baked, then so is an X2, X100, Hexar AF, 35Ti, and a whole host of highly regarded cameras.

And given your defense of the Leica S2 system when the D800 came out, your comments on the camera being half baked are more mystifying.
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Never said it was rubbish, not even once ... and no need to take anything so personally, and then get personal with someone that doesn't think the camera is God's gift ... based on their clearly stated reasons and use. These days I feel any camera without a sync port is not complete and partially crippled. For me "half baked", and for you it may not be.

I'd double check your statement regarding transmitters, there are different limitations with various radio transmitters, and each manufacturer publishes their maximum sync speed which remains consistent whether used with a leaf shutter lens featuring maximum speeds of 1/500th or 1/1000th or 1/2000th.

The adapter you linked to is a dumb hot-shoe with a PC port ... not suitable for the way I prefer working mobile using a TTL on-camera flash for fill and strobes for key ... also not sure how one would use the OVF on top of that adapter anyway as the framing would then be off.

Hopefully, a third party radio company will make a pass through TTL transmitter configured for the new Sony hot-shoe and include a PC port ... something I currently use with the A900.

-Marc

P.S., still do not like the Nikon look and feel, which has little to do with liking the S2 look and feel.
 
Shashin

Shashin

Well-known member
Another "half-baked" camera to cross off the shopping list.
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That does not sound like praise.

I am not taking this personally, I am just really confused by the harsh dismissive comments about this camera. I find it a little sad that photographers as a group seem very divisive.
 
Dan Ortego

Dan Ortego

New member
Not to disrupt the current theme but I just ran across this interesting post. You may need to scroll down to find it.

'Here is the RX1 35mm Zeiss lens resolution chart.'

credit source: sonyalpharumors
 
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