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Thoughts on mirrorless FF camera with interchangeable lenses in 2013?

Shashin

Well-known member
You are not going to take an ideal look in regards to visual proportions and scale them to body size to make a "small" lens. The format is going to determine a great deal--focal length is not something you can ignore, nor is the image circle. The RX1 35mm lens is small, it just looks big because the body is really small.
 

pophoto

New member
I'm sure Sony already has a few working prototypes on the go, and despite it being difficult for us to conceptulize, they will make fine in the end.

Sony has proven they can move camera units despite the lack of lens release, they will probably release a Nex with adapter for A-mount first just to fool us into the idea our dreams are coming. They won't release leaf shutter lenses, just too expensive, even for consumer stand point. Although I still believe a FF Nex is coming.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I'm sure Sony already has a few working prototypes on the go, and despite it being difficult for us to conceptulize, they will make fine in the end.
I doubt they have any prototypes working or not. First, they need to launch the RX1 and see what sales really are. Second, most cameras spend a great deal of time being CAD drawings before taking physical form--making a physical body is really expensive: costs can be in the millions to get to the prototypes.
 

pophoto

New member
I doubt they have any prototypes working or not. First, they need to launch the RX1 and see what sales really are. Second, most cameras spend a great deal of time being CAD drawings before taking physical form--making a physical body is really expensive: costs can be in the millions to get to the prototypes.
I really beg to differ, Sony spends a lot money even at the expense of losing money, but write them off in R&D. Let's just say I've been in an industry which shows what a power house Sony actually is and reflects how much time and money they actually invest. I won't go into too much detail about it but having made the RX1 and the FF NEX video camera, it won't surprise me in the least. So you saying costing millions really means very little here, to Sony at least!
 

Shashin

Well-known member
I really beg to differ, Sony spends a lot money even at the expense of losing money, but write them off in R&D. Let's just say I've been in an industry which shows what a power house Sony actually is and reflects how much time and money they actually invest. I won't go into too much detail about it but having made the RX1 and the FF NEX video camera, it won't surprise me in the least. So you saying costing millions really means very little here, to Sony at least!
Companies don't waste money for no reason. There is no reason to make physical prototypes--you really don't need a physical prototype for camera development. You can also look at Sony's annual report; they are not making a huge profit by any stretch of the imagination.
 

pophoto

New member
Companies don't waste money for no reason. There is no reason to make physical prototypes--you really don't need a physical prototype for camera development. You can also look at Sony's annual report; they are not making a huge profit by any stretch of the imagination.
It truly isn't as you are lead to believe.
 

pophoto

New member
Okay something I cannot get into, but let's just say I know Sony set off 5 companies on projects that latest almost two year of full development teams, only to choose the best one in their eyes, and then just scrap the rest. I also have friends who are manufacturing owners in Asia who make the small components for devices used in more than one place. I'm not trying to shoot down your comments, I am just stating the extent companies actually do go for market share, despite common sense for the rest of us.

Here's an example I dug up
Gillette Mach3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Okay something I cannot get into, but let's just say I know Sony set off 5 companies on projects that latest almost two year of full development teams, only to choose the best one in their eyes, and then just scrap the rest. I also have friends who are manufacturing owners in Asia who make the small components for devices used in more than one place. I'm not trying to shoot down your comments, I am just stating the extent companies actually do go for market share, despite common sense for the rest of us.

Here's an example I dug up
Gillette Mach3 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
That is fine. But likewise I might have an insight into the business. I worked with the project teams for a Japanese camera manufacturer--I use to live in Japan. Ironically, the last project I worked on turned out to be Sony's first DSLR. While I don't know the corporate culture at Sony, many of my former colleagues now work there on these camera projects. I can't imagine much of a change in how they used to make cameras.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I think the RX1 is there to check the market of FF mirrorless for Sony (and maybe others as well).

If it turns out to be successful, Sony might want to establish just another camera line. I also would prefer this ILC then to be larger than the RX1 anyway, as this is far too small IMHO to be a serious tool for everyday use.

Actually I really hope such a mirrorless ILC from Sony will happen in the future, I kind of doubt it will come to market in 2013, because then the needed already to start development some time ago. So if the test the market with the RX1 and then start development, we would see an ILC earliest end 2014.

My 5c
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Sony could also take Fuji's approach with their rangefinders by releasing RX models with other fixed focal lengths. They could follow the RX1 with a wide-angle RX2.
 

corposant

New member
A couple thoughts on the thread subject and the responses so far:

- Would Fuji alienate their current X users by developing a FF system? Surely their XR lenses can't all perform as well on a larger sensor.

- Zeiss has a winning model for an FF system - the film Ikon. Letting Sony help design a digital version would definitely shift the risk.

maybe most importantly...

- Given all of the amazing advances in sensor technology, how important is it to have a full frame digital camera, for most people? I think RX1 sales will probably answer this question, but the market has to be big enough for a FF system to make sense to both mass produce and not cost a small fortune. There is a lot of space between the RX1 and a Leica M + lenses. I think Sony/Zeiss could produce a nice system, but it will end up in a Bermuda triangle in the price spectrum.
 

MikalWGrass

New member
The RX1 is a trial balloon. Sony is willing to take the financial hit to see if there is a market for such a camera. If it even has a lukewarm response Sony will plow ahead with a smaller / ish FF camera that takes interchangeable Zeiss lenses, and probably M mount lenses as well.

What I can't figure out is where Voigtlander has been in this battle. If they developed a FF rangefinder that had the IQ of the Epson, and didn't leave the customers in the lurch with crappy customer service, I would run out and get one.

And yes, Fuji will also get on the FF bandwagon, even at the risk of alienating its current users, if the IQ is as good as the current line up of cameras, and the price isn't prohibitive.
 
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