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Fun with the RX-1

barjohn

New member
John, I would seriously doubt Lloyd. My file sizes vary, so that does not quite line up with Lloyd's "fact." My Pentax 645D RAW files vary in size as well. What are Lloyd's qualifications to make these claims anyway? Here is a luminance plot bottom to top from an RX1 image simply opened and then saved as a 16-tiff. I looked at the numbers as well. I see nothing to suggest this is 8-bit data in 16-bit clothing. BTW, I did this in ImageJ which you can download for free.

BTW, there is another easy test, take a JPEG+RAW and see how much you can recover from the shadows with both files. If the RAW is 8-bit, you should soon see it. Perhaps the a99 is 8-bit RAW too, but the reposts I am hearing from users does not support that either.
The gray value is the luminance value, not the color information so it doesn't reflect how many bits are used to convey the color data. He acknowledges that the luminance data maybe more than 8 bit.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I asked him if it was a similar scheme to the one used by Leica on the M8 and he stated that it was similar. I sent an inquiry to Sony CS and their response was to send me their marketing brochure stating it was 14 bit. I asked them to send me a white paper if they have one explaining how they get 42mb file down to 24 mb without compression.
Sony Cyber-shot RX1 | 35mm Full Frame Digital Camera | DSC-RX1/B | Sony USA

Clearly describes this as having 14 bit RAW capability.

I wondered how a tiny battery on a single charge can sanp 270 shots with 14bits of goodness.

But, I am still trying to figure out how the P mode is used by a famous reviewer as the "pro" mode.:ROTFL:
 

douglasf13

New member
FWIW, for comparisons sake, the D600 raw files that are 14bit with lossless compression are around 28-30MB each. The D600 also has the option of 14bit with a more lossy compression, and I believe that those files are in the 24MB range.
 

ohnri

New member
The RX-1 RAW files are incredibly robust. I slap them silly in PP and they take everything.

The RX-1 has state of the art DR. Shooting straight into the sun today at the beach and these files are holding up better than any I can remember.

I know these points have been well made already but, seriously, wow.

-Bill

Fashion Meets Fighting

April 2012 – Bill Fulcher | HatakeyamaGallery.com
 
K

kiss-o-matic

Guest
Ashwin, I am still evaluating how responsive the Rx1 is for street photography. As you know, street photography is anticipating the moment and then taking the shot. As long as your anticipation is better than average, I believe any camera can be used for street photography - you just have to learn a camera's strengths and weaknesses and adjust accordingly to get that shot.
Any more news on this? After thinking long and hard about it, I'm kind of on the fence. I shoot mainly street here in Tokyo. I used to think it would be impossible with MF, but I recently bought two Zeiss lenses (2/35 and 2/100) and love them. Kind of my new passion. Yes, MF can be something you have to work around, but honestly, with my 5d2, I missed a lot of shots due to crap focusing anyway.

Regarding the Rx1, the first thing for me is getting comfortable with the focusing capabilities. So far, I can't autofocus fast enough for many of my shots. Don't know if it is me or the camera.
What are you mainly shooting? I find myself shooting moving targets less and less... especially now that I've been doing manual focus. Even before though, it gets dark here early so more often than not, I'm really fighting to get enough light to get an acceptable hand-held shutter speed which is definitely not a good shutter speed for someone walking.

I've just read up a bit on zone focusing. It looks like the lens doesn't have the distance markings that other Zeiss lenses have which is slightly disconcerting, but as of yet, I've not really done much of it. I use other tricks to make people think I'm not taking a picture of them when I am. :)

Nice pics, btw. I lived between Ward & Downtown for 2 years. Island fever kicked in :loco: so I came back to the gridlock.
 
In case you're interested, here are a few shots wide open at f/2.
Note: the second image is a cropped version of the first.

















 
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Aryan Aqajani

New member
Guys, have you done any long exposure, between 1 and 15 min with RX1? I am trying to find out how it performs on black and white long exposure photography! Cheers,
 

raist3d

Well-known member
I agree. I mentioned it more to illustrate that adding those items doesn't cost much for the maker. Sometimes, I get the feeling that they ommit things for political reasons rather than financial. One of the great things with m4/3 is that they have skipped politics. The tiny E-PL5 offers the same image quality as the OM-D and the GH3 apparently offers video quality that is superior to some of their video camera that cost more. The RX-1 is more like a Leica: You pay a lot to get a marginal improvement in image quality. Hopefully, that image quality is a bit like from a Leica as well :)
I wouldn't call the image quality of the RX1 "a marginal improvement"- at least when compared to m4/3rds. I think it's a notable improvement- whether that improvement matters to you or you can use it, or is useless to you is another matter.

The #1 thing I am looking at this camera is for the leaf shutter (silence) combined with its great high ISO capability (not to mention fast lens).

That said, I want to see what happens with the X200.

- Raist
 

raist3d

Well-known member
m_driscoll - this shot of yours caught my attention because:



I recently did the same area with the Q :)



- Raist
 

jsparks

Member
I'm a software engineer. When I got my a900, I did a bit of looking at the dcraw software to see how CRAW is handled before deciding which raw format I wanted to use.

I don't remember all the details, but basically, CRAW records the full 12-bit value of one pixel, then uses a 8-bit offset from that value for the following group of pixels in the same line (the group of pixels is a small number, maybe 16 pixels) at which point it records another full 12-bit value. Since systems involving lenses and AA filters and sensors don't have infinite contrast, it's rare, if even possible, that 8 bits isn't enough to record the difference between one pixel and the one next to it. In any event, it gets corrected quickly.

After looking at the code, I never used RAW, only CRAW with my a900. I don't think it loses anything visually, especially considering noise (you can't know exactly what a pixel actually should be anyway).

I don't know how 14-bit data is handled, but it may only be used internally by the imaging asic before the raw file is created. This would still reduce the effect of noise introduced during analog to digital conversion which is the real point of 14-bits anyway.
 

douglasf13

New member
I'm a software engineer. When I got my a900, I did a bit of looking at the dcraw software to see how CRAW is handled before deciding which raw format I wanted to use.

I don't remember all the details, but basically, CRAW records the full 12-bit value of one pixel, then uses a 8-bit offset from that value for the following group of pixels in the same line (the group of pixels is a small number, maybe 16 pixels) at which point it records another full 12-bit value. Since systems involving lenses and AA filters and sensors don't have infinite contrast, it's rare, if even possible, that 8 bits isn't enough to record the difference between one pixel and the one next to it. In any event, it gets corrected quickly.

After looking at the code, I never used RAW, only CRAW with my a900. I don't think it loses anything visually, especially considering noise (you can't know exactly what a pixel actually should be anyway).

I don't know how 14-bit data is handled, but it may only be used internally by the imaging asic before the raw file is created. This would still reduce the effect of noise introduced during analog to digital conversion which is the real point of 14-bits anyway.
Agreed. That is also likely what is going on with the NEX-7, A99, and RX-1. It's probably just cRAW without the option to go uncompressed RAW.

If anything, I think the main thing to take away from this is how to use the info to determine how you shoot the camera. Sony EXMOR tends to be somewhat of an "ISO-less" sensor in many cameras, meaning that pushing exposure in the raw converter is as good (or maybe better) than raising ISO in-camera. With this compressed raw in the RX-1, it looks like raising the camera ISO is ideal, and nailing exposure is more important, since the compressed files won't be able to handle swings in exposure in your raw converter as well as with other EXMOR cameras. No big deal, really.
 

Mike Hatam

Senior Subscriber Member
A few quick snaps from my first afternoon with the camera.

All shot RAW at f2, and lightly processed & cropped in LR4.





 
OK, a few more beach shots and other stuff.
Really like shooting in manual mode and letting the camera select the iso.


Trying out zone focusing on the beach.


A little more zone focusing. Not happy with Sony's poor DOF implementation.


More zone focusing.


I actually used the flash. 1/800 f/8 iso 800. Not bad.


Protective husband unhappy at photographer with new Sony Rx1.


Getting dark so shooting wide open at f/2.


Another at f/2.
 

Quentin_Bargate

Well-known member
I appreciate the great photography on this thread. I came very close to ordering the RX1 yesterday but stopped myself on the grounds I could not see when I would use it in place of my beloved Sigma DP2M and DP1M cameras. If the RX1 cost a bit less then it would make more sense for my purposes.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Folks,

looking at all those great shots here, make me really want the RX1 - unfortunately, as I was putting myself in the resist mode this time. Not sure how long I can resist ...

Keep them coming ;)
 
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