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FF NEX

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Vivek

Guest
I only look forward to the Sigma lenses (APS-C or FF).

Sony/Zony are not very useful in my experience. The prices are simply atrocious as is with a pathetic AF performance. Forget about weather sealing. It will only make them bulky, over weight and even more atrociously priced.
 
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Vivek

Guest
The rumor site indicates that the next FF SLT would have it with a mirror up possibility (Sony already have patents on Foveon like sensors). I hope it will be true for the NEX as well.
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
No room for a mirror in the next NEX, I hope. Means different lenses with a new flange distance. ( And less possibilitys for MF lenses :confused:)
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
If Sony goes the right path, then the next FF camera they bring (I doubt it would be called FF NEX) will be without a mirror and will definitely require new lenses to make advantage of the more compact design because of shorter flange distance. To get an idea about the size advantages of such a design, just compare 43 E system lenses and m43 lenses. Next generation systems, especially in the pro area, will look like this, just translated for FF.

Not sure if Sony has the capacity and also willingness to develop such a system and how fast they would be not only introducing such a camera (cameras) but also a complete new lens lineup, which is also optimized for sensor CDAF. They do have the technology at hand, especially since they not only own sensor design but also have now access to Olympus technology, who are leading in CDAF so far. But you never know if they decide that direction or just try to exploit the current lens base and only slowly move there or maybe never.

Having said that I am pretty confident that mirror less (DSLMs) like the OMD and now also the GH3 will also reign the FF sector over time, maybe in 4-6 years. Will be interesting to see who does the first bold move - Sony, Canon, Nikon or maybe even Olympus. If this is played right then it could allow to dominate the serious/pro camera market for the next generation.

For myself I am pretty sure that my D800E is the last FF DSLR I bought (could buy). I am pretty excited about these changes and being allowed to live through these interesting times.
 

douglasf13

New member
Olympus didn't even want to build FF sensors for DSLRs. I highly doubt that they have plans to build a FF mirrorless.
 

mazor

New member
Will be very interesting if the FF nex goes ahead. Sony will have to introduce a whole new set of lens again, pity, as they finally have a good range of e-mount lens.

Also, if they concentrate on a FF nex, would it affect sales of other cameras like the likes of a-99.

Also can a FF nex retain the somewhat compact nature of current nex.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Olympus didn't even want to build FF sensors for DSLRs. I highly doubt that they have plans to build a FF mirrorless.
Right, they were also not able to build FF sensors for DSLRs, as they do not have their own sensor business.

But that means nothing for the future, especially as they are now closely aligned with Sony. We all do not know what Sony wants Olympus to develop. Maybe Sony could use Olympus as a testbed for a FF mirror less system - who knows?
 

Shashin

Well-known member
We all do not know what Sony wants Olympus to develop.
Sure we do--endoscopes. It is Olympus's medical imaging division that is the money maker and that is where the press release said Sony was investing. I doubt after investing so heavily in 4/3 and m4/3, Olympus is going to see any benefit of going FF.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Sure we do--endoscopes. It is Olympus's medical imaging division that is the money maker and that is where the press release said Sony was investing. I doubt after investing so heavily in 4/3 and m4/3, Olympus is going to see any benefit of going FF.
Maybe, maybe not ....

At least m43 is showing how digital cameras will most likely be built in coming years.

Olympus has always surprised with unconventional, excellent and practical solutions - OM, 43, m43. And they are definitely capable of delivering complete lens systems for their cameras in very short time and highest quality - again OM, E-System lenses (HG and SHG), maybe a bit slow for m43 which I actually do not understand.

The other company poised to go that direction of real mirror less FF would be Sony, if they could decide to abandon their current TLM technology, which nobody can tell.

Nikon and Canon? They both have to loose too much of their current customer base, so they most likely will try to go the current DSLR path as long as possible.

My guess is that in 5 years from now we will have gone through another 3 iterations of sensor design, processing engines and EVFs, so we will have no longer any of the current obstacles which allow to discuss that OVF and mirror are better, simply because the mirror less path will be much better already in all aspects. Interesting to see who will be the vendors and market dominators by then .....
 

pophoto

New member
+1 also. I also think Sony further developing the foveon sensor will add to this. The new sigma 35mm f/1.4 lens is astounding in my opinion, and so is the DP2M with limitations.

The RX1 is also growing on me as well, all three strengths I can see in palms of Sony, they just need to continue their innovation, knowing what they have technology wise, but at the same time Sony are snobs when it comes to interface design and user settings (think Apple) and less like Fuji. While Fuji keeps listening to consumers, I don't think their engineers really know what enthusiasts want, so they don't get it right either, but they are still young in the mirror less market, and so is the market in general!
 

Nagas

New member
Hi all new here, nice to chime in.. Now that we have seen the RX1, it´s not a matter of "if" but "when" that we see an interchangeable lens FF Sony body. If anything, the RX1 has shown that Sony can make an awesome lens work lovely with a great FF sensor. The RX1, as much as I like it, is not my thing but if they ended developing an interchangeable version of the new 35/2 Sonnar for the new system, I think I would most probably be in.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I think this is a serious opportunity for Sony to shake things up and reach the pinnacle they have been hungering after for the past several years.
I'm not quite so convinced . . . they're really there with both sensor design, and the will to innovate, which is great. The trouble is that they don't seem to me to have the idea of consistency which is so important to establish a system.

To be honest - although It'd be wonderful if a FF Nex behaved well with M lenses - I wonder if it's terribly critical.

What does worry me is whether there will be enough small, high quality lenses in any normal sort of time scale - and I DO think this is critical.

What also worries me is that the flip about with interface design and ergonomics - if you're going to buy into a system you want some kind of coherent and consistent development here. Tri-Navi for instance - the new big thing - but now it seems to have gone.

But I certainly agree it really is an opportunity - especially when Canon and Nikon seem to have buried their heads in sand.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Hi Jono, I do not think they are there with respect to sensor design. Although there are hints from their patents that they may be on to really innovative sensors and not the current garden variety ones.

I have absolutely no confidence in Sony with lenses. If they ever make good ones that are also compact, it would make Leica lenses a bargain, in terms of prices.

So, despite the design/interface problems that you allude to and which I am willing to put up with, if they deliver a decent interchangeable lens mount cam with a decent sensor, I will be very pleased to buy and use.
 

douglasf13

New member
Hi all new here, nice to chime in.. Now that we have seen the RX1, it´s not a matter of "if" but "when" that we see an interchangeable lens FF Sony body. If anything, the RX1 has shown that Sony can make an awesome lens work lovely with a great FF sensor. The RX1, as much as I like it, is not my thing but if they ended developing an interchangeable version of the new 35/2 Sonnar for the new system, I think I would most probably be in.
I think the RX-1 shows the opposite. It still has some color shift issues, albeit relatively minor, and that's with a fixed lens camera that is supposedly tuned for good edge perfromance. An interchangeable lens camera will be more difficult.

p.s. Jono, I think Sony will still use Tri-navi. The Nex-6 is a lower level model, so Sony needed differentiation from the Nex-7.
 

Nagas

New member
The RX1 may have some (very mild in my opinion) issues, but they only seem to be visible in very specific situations (evenly lit white walls and such...), and they don´t tend to show much in normal life shooting and situations. The majority of the new owners (even the ones that are aware of this issues) don´t seem to be willing to part with the camera and are quite satisfied with it.

I have owned a bunch of cameras along the years ,compacts, DSLR´s -APS and Fullframe-, micro 4/3, Fuji X100 and now Nex 7 (which is currently my only camera). I have been been fairly happy with all my cameras, none of them was without issues and limitations, I learned to live with them and enjoy them. I believe that as a "capturing-beautiful-memories-and-images-of-real-life-and-the-years-passing-by" kind of machine the RX1 is going to be quite a success.

There is a very small and select club of cameras that hold a special place in the collective memory of the photography community. In the times of film, an example of such cameras could be the Fuji GW series of cameras (specially the 6x9 models that seem to hold their value forever), and the Konica Hexar 35 AF which is very sought after and has been in business producing stunning images for years and years. In the digital era, the Leica Digilux2 inmediately comes to mind: this camera seems to have a "je ne sais quoi" and certainly holds a very special status (and it´s value) among photographers. Another such camera is the original 5D, which even when it can be found for peanuts now, certainly took the world by storm when it appeared and will remain forever as a milestone. I have a feeling the RX1 is bound to join this little lovely club..

I for one won´t be purchasing this camera for a number of reasons, but I really like the images that I´m seeing coming out of this camera, it has in my opinion (OK, OK, I´ve only seen web JPEGS, I know) a beautiful way or "drawing" that I haven´t seen for example with the Nex6/7 and the Sonnar 24/1.8 which is regarded as the best in the Nex lineup and is also a Zeiss lens. But I can see a compact full frame mirror-less interchangeable camera (Nex or not) in my future, I think the RX1 is a step in the right direction.. My 2c.

Good light!!
 
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douglasf13

New member
The RX1 may have some (very mild in my opinion) issues, but they only seem to be visible in very specific situations (evenly lit white walls and such...), and they don´t tend to show much in normal life shooting and situations. The majority of the new owners (even the ones that are aware of this issues) don´t seem to be willing to part with the camera and are quite satisfied with it.
I agree, but that isn't my point. You said, "If anything, the RX1 has shown that Sony can make an awesome lens work lovely with a great FF sensor." If Sony can't nail the color shift issue with a fixed lens and sensor combo that are designed to be tuned for each other, I don't have a lot of faith in a FF interchangeable version, especially if they keep using the e-mount, which will limit things, mechanically.
 
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