RX1 cross frame colour caste test results

[tashley]

Here's a link to a gallery that has shots from f2 through f16 using a Phase One LCC sheet held close to the lens mount and pointed at a mildly hazy sky. The frames were made RAW and then developed in LR 4.3 with Adobe Standard camera calibration profile and no lens corrections. I took a white balance from dead centre of the f5.6 frame and then applied it to all the other frames. Otherwise, nothing: no sharpening, NR, lens corrections, exposure adjustments.

The shots were then exported to 50% sized 92% quality JPEG in pro photo - so if you really want to get the most accurate view you must download the originals and look at them in a colour space aware application on a wide gamut monitor that is calibrated.

I will say nothing at this point about what I think - it is more interesting to test the range of reactions from a wider group of people...


ps there's one obvious mistake that came from testing too many things on too many cameras today: I shot with Auto ISO so as the aperture got smaller the ISO got higher. I doubt that it makes much difference but if people feel otherwise I will try to repeat...

[Mike Hatam]

Tim - thanks for posting these images - it's very helpful to see them.

Here's my initial reaction after studying them...

The red cast on the right is a non-issue for me. It's very minor, and essentially gone by f4.

The cyan cast on the left is more noticable and problematic. It's strongest at f2 (probably more visible due to vignetting), but reduced significantly by f2.8, and nearly gone by f4.

Even with the left-side cyan cast at f2, I don't see this as a show-stopper or serious issue in general use. In general use, the color cast will be essentially undetectable in most situations.

I'm taking delivery of an RX1 tomorrow, and looking forward to putting it to use over the holidays.

[pophoto]

Tim, it is what it is, I can either look at these white shots all day or real world images.

Thanks for these tests, your review is enjoyable and informative.

[tashley]

Both eminently sane reactions IMHO. I regard it as a non issue for all but the sorts of specialist pro tasks this camera would never be used for-but there's been a lot of fuss so I thought I'd try to lay it to rest...

[Mark Gowin]

Tim, thank you for sharing your test results. The cyan transition on the left is more abrupt than the magenta on the right. However, it is doubtful either will be noticeable in the types of photos which I expect to use the RX1.

I plan to test my RX1 to verify it doesn't have any extreme color cast issues that could be problematic. If my camera is no worse than yours, then it should be OK.

[m_driscoll]

Tim,

Thanks for posting this. This is no big deal to me. Every camera that I've had has some issue. I'm more upset about not being able to buy an EVF and the kind of Seattle weather that makes you suicidal!

Keep posting and reviewing.

Cheers, Matt

[douglasf13]

It's tough to say, but this might bother me. Even using the ZM 35/2 on the NEX-5N bothered me, and most don't consider that combo to have issues. These shifts can be particularly noticeable in concrete, which, living in L.A., is often a factor.

All of that being said, I may be ok with it, now that LR4 has the capabilities to fix it, although I haven't used this new feature, so I don't know how well that it works. The color shift is light enough that I'd guess that CornerFix and C1 would fix it easily.

It's pretty surprising to me that these shifts are present, considering this is a fixed lens 35mm. You'd think that Sony would correct it in firmware at the very least.

[barjohn]

That is about the same amount I see in my test shots and it doesn't seem to cause any real problems with normal photos. It would be nice, nonetheless for Sony to add an in camera fix which they should be able to do.

[Godfrey]

Looks like someone could update CornerFix to do the appropriate corrections.

These look much like what comes out of the M9 when fitted with the Color Skopar 28mm lens. CornerFix cleans up these effects very nicely:

(Each row (two M9 lens codes and no code) shows the out of camera image paired with the CornerFixed version. The columns show the apertures.)

[tashley]

I've been testing all this in detail for an article I've written and there's a lot to learn and a lot that's interesting around various options for dealing with it. Now I've written it all up I understand it in some detail and it's somewhat more complicated than it looks but very interesting!

[barjohn]

So, Tim, where is the article?

[Mark Gowin]

I look forward to reading your article Tim.

[barjohn]

Some of you may recall the discussion we had about this back in December. Imaging Resource labs encountered the issue too and discovered the cause and solution. It seems that it is caused by the vignetting correction in the camera. It applies it to both JPG and RAW files. If you turn it from AUTO to OFF no more color shading from left to right. However, you now need to apply vignetting correction in PP. LR4 fixes it easily as does C1. If you don't want any color cast, turn off the shading feature until SOny provides a firmware fix. No need to use corner fix or go through difficult gyrations. Latest from the IR Lab: A perplexing Sony RX1 mystery solved and a sneak peek at ongoing camera tests - Imaging Resource

[Mark Gowin]

John,

Thank you pointing this out. Sounds like an easy solution to simply turn off the in camera vignetting correction and add vignetting correction to a LR import preset.

Here is an example the color cast on my RX1.



Converting to B&W solves the problem in this case, but obviously that is not a preferred solution.

[Shashin]

Hmm, B&W, that would do it. LOL.

Well, I reported the problem to Sony and after a few rounds of "can you send me pictures," they have asked me to return the camera for "repair." I sent my camera last Thursday and I will let you know what happens when I get it back.

[barjohn]

This should be fixable with a firmware upgrade. IR said they have contacted Sony and given them the information. I have confirmed this in my own testing and now have that turned off.

[Shashin]

Originally Posted by barjohn

This should be fixable with a firmware upgrade. IR said they have contacted Sony and given them the information. I have confirmed this in my own testing and now have that turned off.

Apparently, Sony wants the camera. I contacted Sony in December and they knew what the problem was then.

[Mark Gowin]

Originally Posted by Shashin

Apparently, Sony wants the camera. I contacted Sony in December and they knew what the problem was then.

That is interesting. Please let us know you find out from Sony. I am curious. I am going to give the no in-camera auto correction approach a try.

[Steen]

Originally Posted by barjohn

So, Tim, where is the article?

Originally Posted by Mark Gowin

I look forward to reading your article Tim.

John and Mark, I think this is the link you were looking for:

Tim Ashley Photography | Sony RX1: Colour Shift & Calibration, Aperture Series, ETTR & more

[D&A]

Originally Posted by Mark Gowin

John,

Thank you pointing this out. Sounds like an easy solution to simply turn off the in camera vignetting correction and add vignetting correction to a LR import preset.

Here is an example the color cast on my RX1.



Converting to B&W solves the problem in this case, but obviously that is not a preferred solution.

Mark, a little off topic, but Sparks Lane (in Tenn) for image above? I first noticed some other images of yours (in the other RX-1 thread) and thought Great Smokies for the images? Just curious and love the scene in the winter time and was tempted to make the trip during this time of year. Are you there now? Thanks!

P.S. *** Just noticed the "hhttp" says "Sparks Lane"...so that answers my question about location.

Hope to hear how Sony resolves this color cast issue as I am thinking about aquiring this camera.

Dave (D&A)

[Shashin]

I wonder if we could get the title of this thread changed to "Colour Cast" rather than "Colour Caste," which might have some misinterpretation about race and social class issues. Just a thought...

[Mark Gowin]

Originally Posted by D&A

Mark, a little off topic, but Sparks Lane (in Tenn) for image above? I first noticed some other images of yours (in the other RX-1 thread) and thought Great Smokies for the images? Just curious and love the scene in the winter time and was tempted to make the trip during this time of year. Are you there now? Thanks!

P.S. *** Just noticed the "hhttp" says "Sparks Lane"...so that answers my question about location.

Hope to hear how Sony resolves this color cast issue as I am thinking about aquiring this camera.

Dave (D&A)

Dave,

Yes, this photo was taken in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park
this past Sunday morning. Specifically, it is Sparks Lane in Cade's Cove. I live about two hours away and visit often for photography. The weather forecast looked promising for some snow so my we booked a room in Townsend for the weekend and hoped for snow. We got lucky and was in the right place at the right time. The park service is quick to close the roads so it can require so luck to get into an area before the roads are closed. Also, Cade's Cove is at a relatively low elevation so it doesn't get snow as often as the higher elevations. The weather can change very rapidly. For example, Sunday morning brought a good snow shower but the skies cleared and it warmed up to the mid 50's by late afternoon. I will be happy to answer any questions you have regarding a trip to the Smokys.

[D&A]

Originally Posted by Mark Gowin

Dave,

Yes, this photo was taken in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park
this past Sunday morning. Specifically, it is Sparks Lane in Cade's Cove. I live about two hours away and visit often for photography. The weather forecast looked promising for some snow so my we booked a room in Townsend for the weekend and hoped for snow. We got lucky and was in the right place at the right time. The park service is quick to close the roads so it can require so luck to get into an area before the roads are closed. Also, Cade's Cove is at a relatively low elevation so it doesn't get snow as often as the higher elevations. The weather can change very rapidly. For example, Sunday morning brought a good snow shower but the skies cleared and it warmed up to the mid 50's by late afternoon. I will be happy to answer any questions you have regarding a trip to the Smokys.

Appreciate all the info Mark! I was actually there (Cade's cover and surroundings), this past Fall for the 1st time...slightly past the peak folliage. Needless to say for those who have been there, incredible photographic opportunities abound there year round and can't wait to return. I'm partial towards winter scenes like yours. I live a moderately short distance from the Blue Ridge Mountains here in VA. and although we have some old historic homesteads and Shennendoah Nat"l Park & Valley, there is something special about the entire Great Smokies around and near Cade's Cove, from what I experienced not all that long ago. Until I make it back there, I'l have to contend with my favorite "Shed on the Hillside" nearby, that I often photograph year round while traveling to work . Sort of a little like Sparks Lane...it changes it's look each week throughout the seasons.

As I previously mentioned, I'll await with interest to see how Sony responds to the color cast issue. It obviously can rear it's ugly head and sometimes afffect greatly (to a degree) with what would otherwise be an exceptional image. Thanks again!

Dave (D&A)

[Shashin]

Dave, apparently the color cast is only if the automatic shading function is on. If you correct for that in your processing software, there is no issue. But the cast thing is great, it is like the worlds smallest tech camera with digital back!

[D&A]

Originally Posted by Shashin

Dave, apparently the color cast is only if the automatic shading function is on. If you correct for that in your processing software, there is no issue. But the cast thing is great, it is like the worlds smallest tech camera with digital back!

Shashin...although not familar with the operation of this camera, I assume choosing not to use automatic shading function to prevent color casts, simply means one can manually adjust for corner light falloff in post processing as an alternative? If so, how does corner noise values compare between the two? Thanks

Dave

[Shashin]

Originally Posted by D&A

Shashin...although not familar with the operation of this camera, I assume choosing not to use automatic shading function to prevent color casts, simply means one can manually adjust for corner light falloff in post processing as an alternative? If so, how does corner noise values compare between the two? Thanks

Dave

I would love to give you an answer, but right now my camera is at Sony to see if they can fix this problem. When I get it back, I will have more to say. The link give by BarJohn above has the Imaging Resource report on this--he posted after I sent the camera.

[D&A]

Originally Posted by Shashin

I would love to give you an answer, but right now my camera is at Sony to see if they can fix this problem. When I get it back, I will have more to say. The link give by BarJohn above has the Imaging Resource report on this--he posted after I sent the camera.

Thanks Shashin. I'll have a look later tonight at the Imaging Resource Write-up. The more I learn about this issue, as described, the more it seems like it can be addressed with a relatively simply firmware fix....although thats what many said about Leica's red edge issue with some wide angles.

Dave (D&A)

[mazor]

Hi, I have gotten my hands on a RX1 on loan. I have not tested for the cross frame color cast, but what I have noticed in these images I took is that the sky section does seems to have a somewhat slight magenta cast when compared to my 5n and or Nokia 808. Could it be just out of camera JPG processing. Since I do not have a RAW converter for this camera?


Here are the images, click images twice to see more resolutions
The nex5n image is out of camera JPG and has legacy glass 24mm Zuiko prime attached to get similar focal length to the RX1. The Nokia 808 was set to full resolution, with post process contrast and saturation. It obviously has a wide angle lens, but the resolution should make up for that shortfall

Sony RX1


Sony Nex 5n


Nokia 808

[Shashin]

That Nokia is horrible, unless the tanker trailer is actually green and both the Sony cameras have it wrong. I did not shoot a lot of jpeg, but it simply could be WB: the Nex 5 does look greener.

[Mark Gowin]

Dave, next time you head down to the Smoky Mountains let me know if you want to meet up.

[Mark Gowin]

Mazor,

I see the difference in sky color you refer to. However, judging from the shadows in the building, there is a difference in exposure between the photos. That plus a difference in WB as Shashin mentioned could explain it. Also, note that the RX1 has many different jpg processing styles which can be applied to that could be another difference. Personally, I have never shot jpgs with my RX1 so I have no experience with them. You can download a free 30 day trial of LightRoom that will help you better evaluate the camera using raw files.

[D&A]

Originally Posted by Mark Gowin

Dave, next time you head down to the Smoky Mountains let me know if you want to meet up.

Thank you ever so much Mark, I most definitely will! In the meantime, maybe if I can get my act together and get caught up with a zillion and one things that I'm more than many weeks behind in (deadline wise)....maybe I can get around to posting a few of my Cades Cove pics along with the others in the near and surraounding areas....in the medium format forums. I just touched the surface while down there...especially when the rains came in on the last day of a relatively short trip down there. Medium Format digital was the type/format camera I chose to use while down there.

Dave (D&A)

[mazor]

Originally Posted by Shashin

That Nokia is horrible, unless the tanker trailer is actually green and both the Sony cameras have it wrong. I did not shoot a lot of jpeg, but it simply could be WB: the Nex 5 does look greener.

thanks for comments. My monitor must be bung or something, as the trailor does not look green, but guess compared to the Sony, ie may appear more green?

I thought I would throw 808 into the mix, as it too has a Carl Zeiss Lens fixed into a phone.

[mazor]

Originally Posted by Mark Gowin

Mazor,

I see the difference in sky color you refer to. However, judging from the shadows in the building, there is a difference in exposure between the photos. That plus a difference in WB as Shashin mentioned could explain it. Also, note that the RX1 has many different jpg processing styles which can be applied to that could be another difference. Personally, I have never shot jpgs with my RX1 so I have no experience with them. You can download a free 30 day trial of LightRoom that will help you better evaluate the camera using raw files.

good call on that, guess I just had white balance to auto. To really get a good exposure I would really have to find a 24mm f2.0 lens. and do manual shutter.

What I really is a tasty Speedbooster EF - NEX, then I would be able to mount that same 24mm lens, and get an extra stop of light

[philip_pj]

Mark, I would be curious to see the same scene shot looking the other direction. There seems to be lot more going on with other tones and they extend far into the frame towards the road, up to the road in fact - stubble with green-yellow colouration. The sky looks pretty even along the right side edge within the cast.

Almost like a half processed image, confounded by the WB and the near white out making any tone variations all the more obvious. See the gradation of colour along the tree line for example.

What was the direction of the light, I also wonder.

mazor, colour from jpegs is a crapshoot, always and everywhere, even in the same camera RAWs will look different to their jpegs. Everything affects colour in the final file format like jpeg, contrast, tone curve, WB, exposure, and so on. And these are 100kb 8 bit files, conclusions are difficult to make.

[Shashin]

Originally Posted by mazor

thanks for comments. My monitor must be bung or something, as the trailor does not look green, but guess compared to the Sony, ie may appear more green?

I thought I would throw 808 into the mix, as it too has a Carl Zeiss Lens fixed into a phone.

But can you gat an optional EVF and $200 lens hood for that Nokia?

I know when I shoot RAW, it is not uncommon for me to hit the tint (green/magenta) slider in WB in my RAW processor. AWB is fairly good, but it is still making guesses from a scene. I think the difference coming from the Nex and RX is just a different guess.

But Wow, what a difference in IQ between the RX and Nex!

[Shashin]

Originally Posted by philip_pj

And these are 100kb 8 bit files, conclusions are difficult to make.

The images are linked to a bigger file.

[mazor]

Shashin indeed no such accessories are available for the nokia lol.

For the lens hood one can use their left hand to carefully assist blocking stray light, and as for viewfinder, the AMO Led screen seems to work well in bright sunlight, although the addition of an OVF clip on is not such a bad idea.