FF NEX and F E lenses

[Paratom]

Given all of the quality issues with the M, I think this camera will seriously impact M sales if it works well with Leica lenses. The camera freezes, poor quality EVF, numerous sensor problems, and host of usability issues that Leica still has not addressed combined with a nearly 200% price difference (A7r at about 1/3 price) with higher resolution and clearly better sensor will make the M a far less attractive package. If the RX-1 is any indication, the Sony will be a rock solid performer with WiFi, built on grip, built in far superior EVF, etc. The only thing missing will be the range finder. That is a must have for only the smallest segment of the Leica market and the segment that is probably the oldest and fastest diminishing.

Hi John,
the optical viewfinder is a big argument for me to use the Leica M.
I know there are people now who prefer EVF, but there are also many who do prefer optical viewfinders.
I also believe there are many people who do like a simple and "analog" style user interface - and here the Leica shines.
For those people who do like EVF, and who do like AF the Sony looks like a nice alternative...
The lenses they announced seem to be a usefull compromise between speed and size which I think is good. And I am sure they will add some more special lenses and faster glass later.

For my part, after going though all kind of stuff (M9-m43-x-pro1-rx1-M) I still found no mirrorless which I prefer over my digital Leicas in regards to user interface AND IQ. I love the 35/1.4FLE and the 75/2.0 as well as the 21/3.4 and 50Summicron/Summilux.
And I almost allways use the rangefinder. Have tried focus peaking, don't like it. Same with magnification and framing and switching back and forth.
If I would use the new FF Sony I would want to use it with AF.

I think your impression about problems with the "M" doesn't reflect reality.
The M is a damn good camera and most users are pretty happy with it. The biggest issue is the delivery problem IMO.

I still believe the FF Sony is a great option and some competition in the FF mirrorless market is good for Leica.

 

[Vivek]

I know that you would buy one (at least to reinforce the idea that whatever else is the best for you)!

 

[Vivek]

Thanks Vivek. How did you check that out?
BTW, I think I have those two lenses.

I located the 50/1.8. That also has a rectangular baffle that would induce vignetting on the FF. If sony allows these lenses to be used on the A7 (after removing the baffle) without restrictions, we have a decently priced (still 2X the price of a Canon EF 50/1.8) normal lens.

 

[JohnW]

I located the 50/1.8. That also has a rectangular baffle that would induce vignetting on the FF. If sony allows these lenses to be used on the A7 (after removing the baffle) without restrictions, we have a decently priced (still 2X the price of a Canon EF 50/1.8) normal lens.

The same question would apply to all current E-mount lenses, including the Sigma 19 and 30. I look forward to someone experimenting.

But when it is said those lenses will work as is, does that mean with the same 1.5 crop factor?

John

 

[Vivek]

John, While not wanting take anything away from the experimentation, the Sigma DN 30/2.8 will not cover the FF. Just APS-C stricktly. I don't have the 19/2.8.

It isn't clear how it is implemented in the A7/r - APS-C crop only or let it go to cover as much they do.

 

[Rawfa]

Hi John, The baffle at the mount (a thin plastic ring in case of the 24/1.8) has to go. I am going to keep it first to try with it on the A7r and then trim it.

This baffle vignette is very obvious in case of the 30/3.5 Macro as it has a rectangular shaped one.

Vivek, be sure to film it and post it here so we can trash our e-mount lenses to fit the FF mount too

 

[Hosermage]

I think there's both mode... cropped, or FF with heavy vignette. Just from rumor site though.

 

[JohnW]

Thank you, Vivek. Very helpful, as always.

John

 

[Vivek]

I think there's both mode... cropped, or FF with heavy vignette. Just from rumor site though.

I hope that comes true, David!

The E 50/1.8 OSS is stabilised. It isn't clear if that will be allowed function as well.

 

[jonoslack]

I really like Sony cameras and I should say that this looks like a fantastic camera ..... if you want to shoot with AF prime lenses - decent full frame zooms seem big enough to rather remove the size advantage, and one may as well use a Nikon D800 or a Sony A99.

With respect to medium and telephoto Leica lenses I'm sure it will also be absolutely fantastic, but I think one should keep one's reality hat on with respect to wide angle lenses - especially if the news about angled microlenses is true.

As I understand it, Leica moved away from angled micro lenses because it was too difficult to control the 'Italian flag' colour shift across the frame, and that was even when applying software fixes which were specific to both lenses and apertures. With a Bayer filter there is a tendency to a lopsided colour balance with angled micro lenses, one which will vary with the angle of light and thus the aperture.

Perhaps Sony has developed some kind of magic soup to work out these problems, or even better, perhaps they have developed some kind of tool where you can name and profile specific lenses for use with the camera (it would certainly be possible).

I'm only pointing this out, because it seems to me that everyone is assuming that this will be the final solution for their Leica M lenses, and although it may be, I think I'd be treading with some caution.

But Hell - I'm seeming like a naysayer - this looks like a fantastic pair of cameras to me, and if I needed AF with prime lenses I'd be on them like a dose of salts.

I also think it'll be good for Leica - Sony are expanding the market for small, full frame, cameras, and this will benefit everyone. Let's face it, 20% of an annual market of 100,000 cameras is better than 100% of a 10,000 camera market! If you want a full frame camera with a rangefinder and manual focus (and you don't have to be an old fool like me to want one), then an M is still the answer.

Just don't assume that M mount wide angle lenses (35mm and below) will work straight away - it's a complicated issue, and it would be delightful (but surprising) if Sony could have got this one right out of the box.

Just a final note - I'm sure that this is where the mainstream future of photography is (high speed EVF with phase detect). If I were Nikon or Canon I'd be very worried.



all the best

 

[lowep]

Jono please buy one and try it out so when you find out what you thought was right you can sell it to me so I can also find out what you thought was right then sell it to someone else

 

[Vivek]

As I understand it, Leica moved away from angled micro lenses because it was too difficult to control the 'Italian flag' colour shift across the frame, and that was even when applying software fixes which were specific to both lenses and apertures.

Yeah and that is why there is a Mandler group among the Leica nuts.

Good point, Jono.

Even with their own lenses designed for their own new system cameras, Sony struggles to get the color balance/shift issues right. There is no chance in hell they would with the A7/7R. :angel:

 

[camping]

And then there are the Leica wide angle R lenses...

Cannot wait!

Paul

 

[jonoslack]

And then there are the Leica wide angle R lenses...

Cannot wait!

Paul

Paul - Hi
I'm sure these will be fine

 

[jonoslack]

Even with their own lenses designed for their own new system cameras, Sony struggles to get the color balance/shift issues right. There is no chance in hell they would with the A7/7R. :angel:

I'm sure they'll be just fine with their own lenses - the size suggests that they're pretty much telecentric anyway.

 

[doug]

With respect to medium and telephoto Leica lenses I'm sure it will also be absolutely fantastic

I'm on the edge of my seat !!!

Just a final note - I'm sure that this is where the mainstream future of photography is (high speed EVF with phase detect). If I were Nikon or Canon I'd be very worried.

+1 !!

 

[Vivek]

I'm sure they'll be just fine with their own lenses - the size suggests that they're pretty much telecentric anyway.

Size isn't always a measure of telecentricity. Many R lenses aren't!

 

[Vivek]

Vivek, be sure to film it and post it here so we can trash our e-mount lenses to fit the FF mount too

Rafa, It turns out to be too ridiculous to post even a picture! There are 3 screws that hold the baffle (24/1.8 and 50/1.8) which are not glued. Simply unscrew them to remove the baffle.

 

[jonoslack]

Size isn't always a measure of telecentricity. Many R lenses aren't!

They didn't need to be

 

[Vivek]

Correct!

Take a look at your post #114. One can not have everything.