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Not impressed by the A7/A7r

mmbma

Active member
I had HIGH hopes for these cameras. They really represented everything I wanted in a camera on paper. But after playing with them for 30 mins at PhotoPlus, I'm no longer convinced.

Not going to dwell into the well known specs. Here are the factors that DIDN"T work for me:

1- Cheap and light build. Defintely cheaper than the RX1. Not in the same league as Leica Ms. A7R is slightly better with metal dials, but both felt hollow

2- Annoying UI, same Sony UI here. If it works for you then great, it doesn't work for me

3-Lenses felt HUGE. the zoom was so large that it may well belong to a DSLR. the 55mm 1.8 Zeiss was smaller, but still bigger than the RX1 lens. Feels more bulky than the Pentax K5

4- Phase detect AF on the A7 doesnt' work well. I tried to track people walking toward me and it hunts back and forth every time I try. This is very bright indoor lighting

5- The sony guys admitted that they didn't release a 35mm F2 because no one whould buy the RX1s.. While I appreciated their honesty, it sucks! The lack of lenses (and expense) will be the archilies heel for the Alphas. Sony won't have a decent line up for another 2 years and by then the cameras will be obsolete. This is the single reason that I decided to keep my M4/3s

Now I was impressed by the manual focus assist on the A7s. It tracks subjects in real time and puts the focus pane in RED. This is how Leica M240s are supposed to work. But I tried a M240 right after I tried the Sony and the Leica felt sluggish and unuseable. It took me less than a second to manual focus spot on with the A7. I was promised that this feature would work on leica legacy glasses so focusing shouldn't be an issue.

The EVF was good and fluid, but nothing to be crazy about.

The conclusion for ME is to wait. I'll wait until at least two fast primes come out for the A7 before I take the plunge. By then the camera should have depreciated quite a bit. In the mean time perhaps snap up a Rx1 as they become cheaper?

Buying it to use with my Leica M glasses doesn't make sense. It will take longer to focus despite the focus assist feature, and many leica lenses are reported not to be working well with A7 sensors. Stick with your M9s if you want to use Leica lens. I suspect the A7r will outresolve older M lenses as well
 
As someone who's used mostly Canon cameras for the past years, my interest in the A7r is somewhat more banal than that of the high-brow community, to me it's a box with a D800-like sensor that you can adapt any lens to.

I'm willing to suffer any minor deficiencies such as slow AF (which I won't use), light and cheap build (Canon user, anything's better), and the UI I'll figure out eventually...
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Slow AF- Rafa posted that his NEX-7 AFs faster than his 6D!

Cheap build- if it lasts the 3 years that I get from Sony for free, I have no complaints. :)

UI, could not give a toss about that. Once the settings are done, I hardly look at them any more.
 
You can bet that in a year Sony is going to be out with newer and better camera bodies anyway.

A while ago, SAR reported the following for 2014:
- New APS-C E-mount cameras (branded as Alpha). This includes the NEX-7 successor and new entry level APS-C E-mount cameras
- New A-mount FF camera
- New E-mount FF cameras (yes guys….I intentionally used the plural!)
- With 80% reliability also a hybrid A-E mount high end camera to come.
- UPDATE: I am still not sure if there will be an APS-C A-mount camera. I know there are prototypes of such cameras. Don’t know if and when they will release them.
 

Amin

Active member
Thanks for your impressions!

I'm looking at an A7R to use with my Leica M mount 35mm and 50mm lenses, so AF doesn't matter to me. Like Vivek, I don't care about UI either. And lightness is a plus in my book.

Still not completely sold on manual focus with an EVF but hoping the A7R will win me over. Could end up replacing my M9.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I need to get it in my hands before I decide, same with Nikons new entry. I gave up on sight unseen buying anymore. I also have great Nikon glass that I'm not so tempted to switch out either. The Sony to me was like the Leica S was when released not a system yet and that bugs me.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Guy, The A7/7R is no comparison to the Leica S at all. Be fair.

The major difference here is the price. One can buy an A7 kit for the price of a Leica S to Contax adapter. Besides that, a NEX to EOS adapter exists already, along with the NEX to A mount adapter.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
No I meant as a developing system in place upon released leica S had a couple lenses on release . Hardly enough to get by with at release time. The Sony with the new mount seems the same. Now the Sony does have more options outside Sony glass I will admit. But it's still kind of limited on release. The Leica S was only Leica glass at the time much worse. This just reminds me of that with the Sony

I admit I am very much a system buyer as well. Not big on piecing things together unless I'm forced too.
 
M

mjr

Guest
Mmbma, you haven't mentioned anything about image quality at all, surely that is the most important thing?! As others have said, UI is largely irrelevant after you've read the manual and set it up how you want it, if it's like the RX1 everything after the initial setup is handled easily. Are you looking now at the final version that will be for sale or are these still pre-release bodies, in which case performance may still be a way off what will be in the final version.

I think it's brilliant that people are deciding which camera that hasn't been released yet they are going to buy!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Ah crap I'm going to think logically for a second. Where all in trouble now. Lol

Okay let's say you have a nice Nikon d800e system in place and you can change camera names here. So you have 2300 dollars in your hand but your system today that you use could also be expanded by a new lens or two and grow your current system to be much more powerful range of lens selection. Now you look at the Sony you can get a smaller form factor with the same Mpx sizing. But the system has a limited amount of glass in its own Sony mount. One wonders is it worth adding a limited system or expand your current one. Now you still have the cash in your hand so what do you do. Now I could surely try the adapter route and bolt my Nikon glass on and try to build theSony system in time with Sony mounts or is it a better idea to sit and wait use the cash expand your Nikon setup and when the Sony gets more dense in glass maybe buy in than down the road. That's is the questions I face and I'm sure a number of people thinking the same. Now others are avoiding the cost of a Leica 240 and get mpx for a fraction of the price. To me the later is a far better option to buy into the Sony.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Mmbma, you haven't mentioned anything about image quality at all, surely that is the most important thing?! As others have said, UI is largely irrelevant after you've read the manual and set it up how you want it, if it's like the RX1 everything after the initial setup is handled easily. Are you looking now at the final version that will be for sale or are these still pre-release bodies, in which case performance may still be a way off what will be in the final version.

I think it's brilliant that people are deciding which camera that hasn't been released yet they are going to buy!
I think this is a very unique system to think about . Outside the Nikon D800 at 36mpx there is nothing to match it and Leica users they could buy two bodies with left over money than buying a Leica 240. Which really has there heads thinking about the Sonyy. That part I totally get

Not unless someone is hell bent owning a Leica body which many folks are. I look at the end result more and not worry how I got there but more about the file. People like nice brands and Leica cams are very appealing to own, we all know that no big secret on that one. But this adds a unique solution to use the M line of glass. That part can't be ignored either.
 

ecsh

New member
Are you sure you and DPReview held the same camera? Here is a quote from the show from them on handling the body. They never go out of their way to pay a compliment to Sony, so i have to suspect other reasons for your statement.

"The design almost appears to be a mix of the Olympus OM-D E-M1 and Sony RX1, and it feels extremely solid. Both bodies are made of a magnesium alloy that almost feels like it's been honed from a solid block of metal. The bodies (and lenses) are sealed against dust and moisture."
 
M

mjr

Guest
Ah crap I'm going to think logically for a second. Where all in trouble now. Lol

Okay let's say you have a nice Nikon d800e system in place and you can change camera names here. So you have 2300 dollars in your hand but your system today that you use could also be expanded by a new lens or two and grow your current system to be much more powerful range of lens selection. Now you look at the Sony you can get a smaller form factor with the same Mpx sizing. But the system has a limited amount of glass in its own Sony mount. One wonders is it worth adding a limited system or expand your current one. Now you still have the cash in your hand so what do you do. Now I could surely try the adapter route and bolt my Nikon glass on and try to build theSony system in time with Sony mounts or is it a better idea to sit and wait use the cash expand your Nikon setup and when the Sony gets more dense in glass maybe buy in than down the road. That's is the questions I face and I'm sure a number of people thinking the same. Now others are avoiding the cost of a Leica 240 and get mpx for a fraction of the price. To me the later is a far better option to buy into the Sony.

I guess there are 2 reasons for buying anything, 1st, you really feel that that new lens/body/whatever will allow you to do a specific thing you want to do that you can't currently do.

2nd is you just want it.

Both are completely valid so what is it you feel you are lacking? I feel brilliant about my photography at the moment, I'm no pro, never going to be but I love it! What I have now allows me to do what i want, I compose an image in the viewfinder so whatever lens is on the front at the time does the job for me, I've never composed an image with the thought of a lens i don't own, like I said, definitely not a pro!

If I want a new Sony then I'll have it, doesn't need any more justification than that for me personally. I have an RX1 and a D800, love them both, if the A7r doesn't give me something extra over the D800 then I won't change, I think the D800 is not so big that it feels cumbersome and not too small that bigger lenses are unbalanced, for me it's the right size. I wouldn't want to put the 135 f2 or anything larger on a body the size of the RX1, it would feel completely out of balance I'm sure.

That all said, if the files are knock your socks off brilliant then it'll be worth the change.

In your position I'm guessing adding glass to the setup you have would make more commercial sense, I can't see the A7r suddenly giving you vastly superior images to the D800 where a new lens may give you another string to your bow. If you're loaded then a Leica S would be where my money would go!
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
If I want a new Sony then I'll have it, doesn't need any more justification than that for me personally. I have an RX1 and a D800, love them both, if the A7r doesn't give me something extra over the D800 then I won't change, I think the D800 is not so big that it feels cumbersome and not too small that bigger lenses are unbalanced, for me it's the right size. I wouldn't want to put the 135 f2 or anything larger on a body the size of the RX1, it would feel completely out of balance I'm sure.

That all said, if the files are knock your socks off brilliant then it'll be worth the change.
The A7r is a little bit bigger as the RX1, I think. BTW If you like the camera and you want to use big(ger) lenses you might consider the grip.
Looks really well designed and could make the whole thing more stable with bigger lenses.
I think I am going to buy one myself. (first grip in my life :))
 

algrove

Well-known member
@Guy

Thanks for your open analysis. Every serious photographer must be doing the same analysis about his/her system and trying to decide if the a7r Sony can be worked into their current system.

Right now not many are considering it a system as you so rightly point out.
 

Chris C

Member
.....Right now not many are considering it a system....
Though many of us are thinking of it as as 'System' bridge; hoping it works well with cherry picked lenses from other 'Systems'.

And if it does work well as a bridge ----- it's a clever Sony strategy?

........... Chris
 
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Vivek

Guest
Though many of us are thinking of it as as 'System' bridge; hoping it works well with cherry picked lenses from other 'Systems'.

And if it does work well as a bridge ----- it's a clever Sony strategy?

........... Chris
Well said! :)
 
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