Knorp
Well-known member
+1 wonderful wonderful Bisto! ... :thumbs:
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A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.
- Thread starter jonoslack
- Start date
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Hm. If the upgrade bandwagon is a reason to not buy the A7R, then the next revolution of sensors will knock one's socks off. From 6 mpix to 24 mpix, sensors have been growing at about 25% linear per upgrade--meaning that making the next move will entail having 38 mpix APS-C and 1.38gpix 135 formats, both at 160 pixel pairs/mm. I suspect that the 16-24 mpix APS-C and 36-58 mpix 135 frame cameras will be around for a while. So the D800 and A7R might be at the start of a new normal, but one that's unlikely to change anytime soon. Which is why I think we're at a peak in depreciation of new kit right now, fueled by a low upgrade rate & low R&D investment spiral.
That said, every optic will improve with better sensors, but until the trend of looking at pixel-level data goes away--which it won't as long as we have discrete pixels, something possibly obviated by on-demand up-scaling in viewers--the optics will be the limiting factor to technical image quality. R&D, not to mention upgrades, will likely turn in this direction.
Cunim, I concur with Vivek that the R 50, and probably its brothers in the M Summicron 50 and Summarit 50, has weak corners. Its strength is in its middle-zone resolution, primarily at f/4-5.6, and most notably its rendering of closer-than-focal-plane subjects, which is what makes this lens special for me. For corner-to-corner resolution, it may be better than many competitors but that doesn't mean that you'll find it as satisfying as a longer, better corrected lens. The R 100A macro comes to mind for such needs.
More on topic, I won't be buying an A7R, at least not yet, because having an R19(II) or R90AA would make a bigger improvement in my prints for the cost, over my current kit, than a new camera body would.
And I have to keep telling myself that.
Cheers, all, whether you get new kit or not,
Jon
That said, every optic will improve with better sensors, but until the trend of looking at pixel-level data goes away--which it won't as long as we have discrete pixels, something possibly obviated by on-demand up-scaling in viewers--the optics will be the limiting factor to technical image quality. R&D, not to mention upgrades, will likely turn in this direction.
Cunim, I concur with Vivek that the R 50, and probably its brothers in the M Summicron 50 and Summarit 50, has weak corners. Its strength is in its middle-zone resolution, primarily at f/4-5.6, and most notably its rendering of closer-than-focal-plane subjects, which is what makes this lens special for me. For corner-to-corner resolution, it may be better than many competitors but that doesn't mean that you'll find it as satisfying as a longer, better corrected lens. The R 100A macro comes to mind for such needs.
More on topic, I won't be buying an A7R, at least not yet, because having an R19(II) or R90AA would make a bigger improvement in my prints for the cost, over my current kit, than a new camera body would.
And I have to keep telling myself that.
Cheers, all, whether you get new kit or not,
Jon
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I am considering of sending mine back as well. I am finding that it has poor performance well within the edges with several 50mm M lenses. I confirmed this informally with a comparison with the M8 and found the smearing well within the area covered by the M8; the M8 had good results to the edge of the frame.
I am having a hard time seeing this smearing as acceptable. I know my tests could be tightened up, but it just doesn't look good for M lenses at this point.
I am having a hard time seeing this smearing as acceptable. I know my tests could be tightened up, but it just doesn't look good for M lenses at this point.
cunim
Well-known member
Your observation about the 50 Summicron M on the M8 is interesting. I found the 50 'cron R corners worse on the A7r than I remember on other media (below f4 or so). At least the 50 R will clean up when stopped down. Does the M?
Canada should see the native 55mm in a few days, and perhaps that will be the lens that makes this a keeper.
Actually the 50s I have tested are the Elmar-M, a Hex Limited, and a Noctilux F1. I compared the first two directly with the M8. Stopping down helps, but so would buying cheap slow lenses!
I am of course hoping I am doing something wrong- I currently have a cheapish adapter, so I guess that could be the culprit. I have an expensive Voigtlander one coming tomorrow - fingers are crossed...
Well, the crowning blow for me was getting the vertical grip and when put in a vertical position their is no tripod socket on the base when vertical. That is stupid and shows it is designed by those who do not use tripods I guess.
Sent the grip back and then decided the send the entire kit back (35FE too) since it will not replace my 39MP digital back which is more basic for me and intuitive to use.
All this combined with trouble getting sharp images even with the electronic cable release and focusing R lenses never came easy. Actually it is easier for me with the M.
Guess I'll keep my 22MP FF Canon for AF needs for now. I might revisit the alpha series in a year to see what if any changes could make me want to keep it this time.
Sent the grip back and then decided the send the entire kit back (35FE too) since it will not replace my 39MP digital back which is more basic for me and intuitive to use.
All this combined with trouble getting sharp images even with the electronic cable release and focusing R lenses never came easy. Actually it is easier for me with the M.
Guess I'll keep my 22MP FF Canon for AF needs for now. I might revisit the alpha series in a year to see what if any changes could make me want to keep it this time.
That's one of the more curios statements I can recall. I'm not aware of any vertical grip with a tripod socket "on the base when vertical". Can you point one out for me?
Most people use an L plate, secured on the bottom of the vertical grip, when shooting in portrait mode.
Graham
Knorp
Well-known member
OK, I guess you guys think one must buy an L bracket for everything in the Sony world. You must own or work for RRS. Even the RRS L bracket for the a7r will not work with the vertical grip attached.
Is it too much to ask for a 15cent tripod mount installed on the vertical grip. I am not a Sony guy so I guess those of you that are, think that is all right. Not me and I do not smoke. I cannot point out any vertical grips since I have never looked into vertical grips before this and only looked at this grip because the batteries would not last long for my day trips and having the grip sounded more practical than having to remove an L bracket to get to the battery compartment. So much for that.
Is it too much to ask for a 15cent tripod mount installed on the vertical grip. I am not a Sony guy so I guess those of you that are, think that is all right. Not me and I do not smoke. I cannot point out any vertical grips since I have never looked into vertical grips before this and only looked at this grip because the batteries would not last long for my day trips and having the grip sounded more practical than having to remove an L bracket to get to the battery compartment. So much for that.
Ron Pfister
Member
RRS usually makes two different L-plates for semi-pro DSLRS: one for the camera only, one for camera+vertical grip. AFAIK, they have not announced any plans to make the latter for the A7/A7R, but I may be wrong. Judging from the image of the RRS L-plate available for pre-order, it is possible to open the battery door with the plate attached.
Edit: I just noticed that RRS has updated the product page since I last looked, and there are plenty of images of how it looks and what it does. See here:
http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=BA7-L-Set&type=3&eq=
Edit: I just noticed that RRS has updated the product page since I last looked, and there are plenty of images of how it looks and what it does. See here:
http://reallyrightstuff.com/ProductDesc.aspx?code=BA7-L-Set&type=3&eq=
Ron Pfister
Member
I'm not so sure what to think of the two-part sliding design. I would have preferred a bolted-on L-bracket. The solution they offer looks like it may potentially be less stiff, and is surely heavier. Otherwise, I quite like it...
i've been making grips with L-plates for a variety of cameras and am going to take a look at making one for the A7/R.
the problem with many cameras is that they put the usb and shutter cable connectors right where the L-plate goes. putting openings in the L-plate works, as long as you don't mount the camera in portrait mode, as the tripod mount would block the connectors anyway.
the RRS solution addresses this by placing the L plate outboard, and then allowing it to move back when not in use. seems like overkill to me
the problem with many cameras is that they put the usb and shutter cable connectors right where the L-plate goes. putting openings in the L-plate works, as long as you don't mount the camera in portrait mode, as the tripod mount would block the connectors anyway.
the RRS solution addresses this by placing the L plate outboard, and then allowing it to move back when not in use. seems like overkill to me
Ron Pfister
Member
I fully agree! If you make a simple, sturdy yet light-weight L-plate without bells and whistles, I'm likely a taker.
The tripod socket on a camera or vertical grip is centered on the lens axis, to prevent parallax error. That's why one doesn't see a 2nd tripod socket on vertical grips.
If one want's to use a vertical grip, and tripod mount the camera in portrait mode, one uses an L plate with a leg that extends up to the camera body and allows one to maintain the camera lens over the pivot point of the tripod.
If one doesn't care to employ an L plate, mounting the camera from the bottom and positioning the tripod head at a 90 degree angle would be just as optically efficient as a 2nd tripod socket.
Graham
J
JohnW
Guest
I'm returning my A7 due to an electrical problem. Moving the camera in certain directions shuts off the LCD.
I'm actually relieved to have a good excuse to send it back. I've been shooting with it for a week, and yesterday spent the day with my Nex 7, just to compare. The A7 certainly offers an order of magnitude better file quality. The files are richer and deeper by comparison. The BW tonality is wonderful. Obviously noise performance is better, although the loss of detail at 3200 is surprising and disappointing.
But there are several things I prefer about the Nex 7, especially the form factor, size and weight. It's such a nimble camera for street shooting, in particular for one-handed work. And I definitely prefer the Nex EVF placement.
It's been a good lesson for me in matching cameras to needs. I see now that the a7/R is really not a Nex upgrade. It's a new system altogether. I think I'll wait and see Sony's APS-C replacement. If they offer a boost in file quality and ISO performance, but keep the same form factor, I think that would work better for me. Plus, an A7 system comparable to my Nex system would run in the $4K range. The file quality is so compelling that I may reconsider, but at the moment I'm not seeing the value there, at least for me.
John
One from yesterday with the Nex 7. Sometimes good enough is good enough.
I'm actually relieved to have a good excuse to send it back. I've been shooting with it for a week, and yesterday spent the day with my Nex 7, just to compare. The A7 certainly offers an order of magnitude better file quality. The files are richer and deeper by comparison. The BW tonality is wonderful. Obviously noise performance is better, although the loss of detail at 3200 is surprising and disappointing.
But there are several things I prefer about the Nex 7, especially the form factor, size and weight. It's such a nimble camera for street shooting, in particular for one-handed work. And I definitely prefer the Nex EVF placement.
It's been a good lesson for me in matching cameras to needs. I see now that the a7/R is really not a Nex upgrade. It's a new system altogether. I think I'll wait and see Sony's APS-C replacement. If they offer a boost in file quality and ISO performance, but keep the same form factor, I think that would work better for me. Plus, an A7 system comparable to my Nex system would run in the $4K range. The file quality is so compelling that I may reconsider, but at the moment I'm not seeing the value there, at least for me.
John
One from yesterday with the Nex 7. Sometimes good enough is good enough.
Ron Pfister
Member
John, just a thought: could the EVF activation sensor be the cause of the LCD shutting off? It may not be an electrical fault but may merely be camera switching to the EVF. The sensor is far too sensitive, IMO, and this happens to me quite often accidentally.
Regarding the NEX-7, I fully agree that it's an entirely different beast - far more nimble and compact.
J
JohnW
Guest
No, it's not that. The EVF eye piece is well clear of face and hands. In particular when I rotate it on the horizontal axis the LCD goes off.
Incidentally, EVF activation is also improved over the Nex, which has that terrible lag.
John