A7r - and why I'm not keeping it.

[jonoslack]

HI There
Not sure this needs a thread, but it's to avoid being asked 100 questions.

I've really enjoyed my 24 hours with the lovely A7r - but.

This morning I did a series of tripod shots with:
28 'cron (f2 and f5.6)
35 FLE (f1.4 and f5.6)
50 'lux (f1.4 and f5.6)
60 macro elmarit R
35-70 f4 vario elmar
Zeiss 28-85 vario sonnar.

I shot the same series with my M(240).

Basically, there's more detail in the A7r shots, sometimes lots more detail, but the three M lenses all had issues shot wide open (the 50 not much - but some).
This means that one would have to shoot with care and consideration with each of these lenses

The R lenses were great - but in every case the decision as to which was better had more to do with focus accuracy than definition. . . . and I NEVER use a tripod in the 'real' world.

I do two sorts of shooting - a) more careful shooting with prime lenses, and b) pottering about the a zoom lens and the dogs. . . . . . So, what I had to decide was whether the A7r would be the camera of choice in either of this situations (assuming that the 24-70 f4 zoom will be good when it comes).

The honest answer is no. When shooting carefully with primes I'd still rather use a rangefinder - and I already have an M. . . .
when pottering about with a dog and a zoom the Olympus E-M1 with the 12-40 zoom is perfect, lighting quick focusing and brilliant image stabilisation. Added to which I can pop a 600mm equivalent lens in a coat pocket in case I see something interesting a long way off.

If the A7r had produced better results with M lenses overall, then the decision might have been different. . . .and if I didn't already have an M then I would certainly be keeping it.

Of course, this is MY decision, and it's largely to do with my careless and casual way of shooting.

I don't have any criticisms of the A7r as a camera - I loved the controls and the results, even the shutter noise didn't bug me, but basically it's a big beast in a small box, and to get the most of it one will eventually need big lenses too.

So, I'll really miss chatting about it here and investigating its quirks and wonders, - especially with so many great photographers and friends snapping them up, but it's not for me.

. . . . . if the native lenses turn out to be very good, or they bring out another body with IS then things might change.

So - enjoy your wonderful new camera - I'll be watching!

all the best to all the best

 

[Vivek]

:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

(I did not read your post. Thanks for the title! )

 

[Ron Pfister]

Jono, many thanks for posting this! I would have loved to see more of your images taken with the A7R, but I fully understand your reasoning. The reason I'm interested in this camera is exactly because I *don't* have another FF ILC like a Leica M available (and because the NEX-7 has taught me to use a tripod for most of my shooting). Will be picking my A7R up tomorrow. Can't wait!

 

[Ron Pfister]

Incidentally, I'm sure we would all be happy if you were to share images of your comparison between A7R and M240.

 

[Vivek]

I liked this one: Is Sony the New Leica? | Leica BOSS

I am sure there will be plenty of all sorts of comparisons to come.

 

[jonoslack]

Jono, many thanks for posting this! I would have loved to see more of your images taken with the A7R, but I fully understand your reasoning. The reason I'm interested in this camera is exactly because I *don't* have another FF ILC like a Leica M available (and because the NEX-7 has taught me to use a tripod for most of my shooting). Will be picking my A7R up tomorrow. Can't wait!

Hi Ron - thanks for the kind words. I might actually have a few more images to post.

In your position I'd be really excited as well - it's a fantastic camera, no doubt. I just had to decide whether it was going to help me to take better pictures than the cameras I already have.


. . . . as for sharing my samples - I'm really not rigorous enough to be able to do it without being criticised - it's one thing doing it to your own satisfaction, but something different to do it to an independent third party's satisfaction. . . . . . added to which, history relates that kind of comparison only starts a flame war!

 

[roanjoh]

So you had issues with the 35 lux? Hmmm..........this is not sounding good. Although the A7 is said to have less issues (corner smearing, magenta shift) compared to the A7r. I will have to see when my camera comes.

 

[jonoslack]

So you had issues with the 35 lux? Hmmm..........this is not sounding good. Although the A7 is said to have less issues (corner smearing, magenta shift) compared to the A7r. I will have to see when my camera comes.

They weren't that serious - and I could have lived with it if there wasn't a perfectly good M sitting here as an alternative.

 

[algrove]

I will miss your stunning images and well worded posts.

:worthless:

 

[jonoslack]

Thank you Lou . . .
A7r with Noctilux and silver efex pro

heading off down the road​

 

[k-hawinkler]

Thanks Jono, very nice!

 

[Mark Gowin]

Hi Jono,
Your rational makes perfect sense to me - not that it matters what I think. Personally, I would prefer the M over the A7R, but I will be getting the A7R based on bang-for-the-buck and flexibility. If I still had some M lenses laying about, then would be more inclined to follow my heart instead of wallet.

FWIW, your sample image of the bridge with the Contax 28-85mm has peaked my interest in that lens. I have the Zeiss 24-70mm f4 on preorder, but it is not planned to be available until early February. The Contax could be fun to try out - I really liked the one-touch zoom/focus lenses of my youth.

 

[yatlee]

I had the A7r for almost 2 weeks. I had M9 and M240, but sold them both ahead of the A7r release. Few things that is obvious for me. The A7r sensor is a lot more demanding that M9/M240 in terms of having the proper optics to get the most out of the sensor. For example, the new 50 APO ASPH combined with the A7r creates images that are close to my phase one digital back, while some wide angle rangefinder lenses are unacceptable even down to F8.

Overall, I got a lot more keeper form larger aperture lenses like Noct and Summilux through the focus magnification. The smart phone remote control and the WIFI transfer is a great addition, abeit from the rather clumsy first time setup.

 

[Vivek]

It is a luxury to be able to return a brand new camera for a full refund!

With some others, we have seen many FS, "I preordered it, after >1 year of wait now I have it, can't return it to the boutique shop and have to sell" and such.

Sony is great! :thumbs:

 

[jonoslack]

It is a luxury to be able to return a brand new camera for a full refund!

With some others, we have seen many FS, "I preordered it, after >1 year of wait now I have it, can't return it to the boutique shop and have to sell" and such.

Sony is great! :thumbs:

Hi there Vivek
It's nothing to do with Sony - WEX have a 7 day returns policy - I've not taken advantage of it before (except when something didn't work properly). But this is a big purchase, and would cost a lot more in the future (buying native lenses), so I thought it better to get out quickly.

It's quite liberating actually!

All the best

 

[jonoslack]

I had the A7r for almost 2 weeks. I had M9 and M240, but sold them both ahead of the A7r release. Few things that is obvious for me. The A7r sensor is a lot more demanding that M9/M240 in terms of having the proper optics to get the most out of the sensor. For example, the new 50 APO ASPH combined with the A7r creates images that are close to my phase one digital back, while some wide angle rangefinder lenses are unacceptable even down to F8.

Overall, I got a lot more keeper form larger aperture lenses like Noct and Summilux through the focus magnification. The smart phone remote control and the WIFI transfer is a great addition, abeit from the rather clumsy first time setup.

I understand all of that . . . . . but I just love using rangefinders, and I'm very very practiced, so I still get better focus hit rates with it than with an EVF - and I don't like magnification because I then get the composition wrong!

Each to his own. Truth to tell I'm more interested in image content than image quality, being an instinctive/reactive photographer the ergonomics/operation of a camera is of more importance (for instance I don't shoot MF, even for landscapes). The difference between an M240 image and an A7r image is easy to see . . . . but it doesn't really float my boat (what an admission!).

all the best

 

[Vivek]

Hi there Vivek
It's nothing to do with Sony - WEX have a 7 day returns policy - I've not taken advantage of it before (except when something didn't work properly). But this is a big purchase, and would cost a lot more in the future (buying native lenses), so I thought it better to get out quickly.

It's quite liberating actually!

All the best

Good to have that foresight, Jono! :thumbs:

FWIW, I going to pass on the "native" lenses.

 

[JohnW]

....Truth to tell I'm more interested in image content than image quality....

I suspect most of us are like that, but we often succumb to the easy conclusion that better technical quality will mean better pictures. I can't think of a single photograph that moves me that depends on technical quality for its effectiveness.

The industry has reached a level of technical competence where just about any camera will meet or surpass just about any photographer's technical requirements. It would be great to now see a shift in focus to why most of us got into this discipline in the first place -- the ability to experience and express our distinctive vision of the world around us.

John

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Well said John. Personally I'm over all this gear stuff. I will admit outside this Sony which opens some diffrent doors in gear is about the only thing of interest right now. Outside of it everything else is just standard stuff. Just want to shoot , teach and have fun right now. I also have limited my time on gear talk as its getting boring. Much rather talk about technique and getting images but I also will say this and as the industry keeps filling with personalities that know **** and those that do are slowly just not offering there help anymore it's becoming a more what makes you popular that seems more important than what you know is very disheartening. Anyway have a Great Thanksgiving everyone.

Also for Jono, good to see you know what is important here and what your comfortable with. A wise choice

 

[yatlee]

I understand all of that . . . . . but I just love using rangefinders, and I'm very very practiced, so I still get better focus hit rates with it than with an EVF - and I don't like magnification because I then get the composition wrong!

Each to his own. Truth to tell I'm more interested in image content than image quality, being an instinctive/reactive photographer the ergonomics/operation of a camera is of more importance (for instance I don't shoot MF, even for landscapes). The difference between an M240 image and an A7r image is easy to see . . . . but it doesn't really float my boat (what an admission!).

all the best

Yes, at the end of the day, it's the photographer, not the type of the camera that matter most. I still use Leica Monochrome. It's one of those camera that I will never sell.