A7r - and why I'm keeping it ...

[k-hawinkler]

Thanks Ron, I agree.
No, the teapot images are the full images, reduced in size for forum needs.
No crop at all.

 

[k-hawinkler]

To show the performance of the A7R with APO-R 280/4 and two APO-Extender-R 2x on tripod I took an image of my WATE lens.

A full resolution 100% crop is available here: http://winklers.smugmug.com/KHW/2013-12-22-A7R-Shutter-Shock/i-6TL5X33/0/O/_DSC2026_3130x4816.jpg
The little nicks and blemishes of the black finish of the lens give a good indication of the A7R rig's performance.
The WATE itself performs on the A7R extremely well.

 

[k-hawinkler]

A7R + APO lens and adapters, adding up to 1120 mm.

 

[algrove]

The only convincing thing the WATE closeup shows me is that you need to clean off some of that AZ dust from the outside of that lens.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

The only convincing thing the WATE closeup shows me is that you need to clean off some of that AZ dust from the outside of that lens.

Agree I think he should give that lens away to his neighbor dust bowl desert dweller.

 

[k-hawinkler]

In June 2011 the Pacheco Fire burned thousands of acres of forest in the Sangre de Cristos.
2.5 years later one can see the still standing tree trunks and their shadows in the evening sun.
Image taken from a distance of about 20 miles.

Sony A7R + Leica 2 APO-Extender-R 2x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4, focal length 1120 mm, ISO 100, 1/50 s

 

[k-hawinkler]

L(os)A(lamos) Ski Area Boundary.

Sony A7R + Leica 2 APO-Extender-R 2x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4, focal length 1120 mm, ISO 100, 1/50 s

 

[k-hawinkler]

Adorable 50s - Teil II - Systemkamera Forum

Very informative, especially post #14.
Self explanatory for non-German speakers.
You could always use Google translate.

Conclusion, the FE 55/1.8 seems to be a real gem.
I think I'll order one now.

 

[k-hawinkler]

This image http://winklers.smugmug.com/photos/i-8P5vQvG/0/O/i-8P5vQvG.jpg was taken with NEX-7 + APO-Telyt-R 280/4.
I wonder how such an image would compare with one taken with A7R + APO-Extender-R 1.4x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4?

 

[k-hawinkler]

Research Greenhouse.

Olympus OM-D E-M1 + 75-300/4.8-6.7 II @ f/5.1, ISO 200, 1/90 s handheld, FL in 35 mm film 200.

Sony A7R + Leica Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 @ f/4.2, ISO 100, 1/125 on tripod, FL 200 mm.

100% Crop @ f/8

 

[dchew]

K-H,
That is a wonderful display of what this camera can do. I am amazed at the way it handles lights.

Dave

 

[k-hawinkler]

K-H,
That is a wonderful display of what this camera can do. I am amazed at the way it handles lights.

Dave

Many thanks Dave. I agree.
The Sony A7R with Leica Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 or with APO-Telyt-R 280/4 are capable of stunning performance with lights as well.
One has to be careful not to blow the highlights. I also had to adjust the WB as it was mixed lighting.

Here is a link to the full size version: http://winklers.smugmug.com/photos/i-cD3HjPr/0/O/i-cD3HjPr.jpg

 

[k-hawinkler]

Here are two shots and their crops from A7R + APO-Extender-R 1.4x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4.
First WO at f/4, then stopped down a tad at f/5.6. Here we go.

It was cold and a little windy when I took the shots across a canyon between two mesas.
I tried to focus on the word DIRECTV.
At f/4 I see vignetting that has nicely cleared up at f/5.6.
I also think I can detect a little more DOF at f/5.6.

Is this the kind of sharpness performance one would expect when adding an APO-Extender-R 1.4x to an APO-Telyt-R 280/4 on A7R?
How would this lens/extender combination perform on an M240 in a similar situation?
Do you think there is any shutter shake visible in the images? If yes, how do you notice it?

I appreciate your feedback. TIA.

 

[fotografz]

Here are two shots and their crops from A7R + APO-Extender-R 1.4x + APO-Telyt-R 280/4.
First WO at f/4, then stopped down a tad at f/5.6. Here we go.

It was cold and a little windy when I took the shots across a canyon between two mesas.
I tried to focus on the word DIRECTV.
At f/4 I see vignetting that has nicely cleared up at f/5.6.
I also think I can detect a little more DOF at f/5.6.

Is this the kind of sharpness performance one would expect when adding an APO-Extender-R 1.4x to an APO-Telyt-R 280/4 on A7R?
How would this lens/extender combination perform on an M240 in a similar situation?
Do you think there is any shutter shake visible in the images? If yes, how do you notice it?

I appreciate your feedback. TIA.

It was windy?

What shutter speed was used? The detail on the left looks marginally more acute, but the exposures are ever so slightly different, so it is hard to tell.

Why not rent a M240 and EVF + the R adapter and compare side-by-side? The M 240 shutter is most certainly more dampened. Question will be, can you even focus such a demanding combination that finely with their EVF? That is the $8,500 question.

I wonder why your long lens image previous to this one was successful, and you feel this one is not? How did the shutter speeds differ?

What is the highest meg camera you have used this lens/extender on? You may be in new and more demanding territory here.

I'll repeat something again: I've shot with big time photographers and cinematographers ... inside on reinforced concrete floors using camera stands that required 3 men to set up, and when they went to shoot EVERYONE had to stop walking, or moving around to avoid blur ... and even then, we would not move on to the next shot or set-up until the tech guys said it was clean.

Minute camera or subject movement is THE major cause of pixel peeping blur. I don't even trust a 2 sec delay ... for anything that critical I use 10 sec to let the camera settle after pressing the shutter, or use a remote, or a long release if possible (short ones can even cause movement).

When I had just a 90mm on the A7r, I looked at the 7.2X mag view and just touched the camera and the image jumped around like it was a 500mm ... can't imagine a really long lens.

If we insist on pixel level scrutiny with high res digital, we have to up our game and stop trying to defy physics.

It'll be interesting to see how the 24-70/4 with IS fares on this camera.

- Marc

 

[Knorp]

EXIF reads:
F4.0 -> 1/400 sec, ISO 50 (left)
F5.6 -> 1/160 sec, ISO 50 (right)

 

[Annna T]

Hi K-Hawinkler,

Thank you for this very interesting comparison : would it be possible to get a 100% crop of the E-M1 results as well ? I don't see much difference between the two shots at the reduced size you have shown. And the fact one can more easily shoot the MFT system handheld is a big plus.

I own an E-M5 plus an EOS-6D and was first interested by getting an A7 to finally be able to shoot my Zeiss Contax G lenses at their real focal length. I did even sell my M6 and 35mm Sumicron in order to fund that (yet kept the 50mm F1.4 and 90mm F2 both pre-aspheric). But the short flange distance have the effect I feared when using wide angle RF lenses. So this has considerable tamed my enthusiasm.

So for the moment, I have an appreciable credit at a brick and mortar camera shop, but have put everything on hold.

Don't you fear that your E-M1 will remain on a shelf now that you have an A7r ?

Research Greenhouse.

Olympus OM-D E-M1 + 75-300/4.8-6.7 II @ f/5.1, ISO 200, 1/90 s handheld, FL in 35 mm film 200.

Sony A7R + Leica Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 @ f/4.2, ISO 100, 1/125 on tripod, FL 200 mm.

100% Crop @ f/8

 

[k-hawinkler]

EXIF reads:
F4.0 -> 1/400 sec, ISO 50 (left)
F5.6 -> 1/160 sec, ISO 50 (right)

Thanks Bart. That's correct.
Those were the settings on the lens.
(I didn't bother to add the 1 f-stop for the 1.4x extender)

I didn't notice any wind for the first shot, but did notice a wind gust for the second shot. Aside from the wind induced vibration is the overall performance what you would expect? Thanks again.

 

[fotografz]

Thanks Bart. That's correct.
Those were the settings on the lens.
(I didn't bother to add the 1 f-stop for the 1.4x extender)

I didn't notice any wind for the first shot, but did notice a wind gust for the second shot. Aside from the wind induced vibration is the overall performance what you would expect? Thanks again.

So, the set up was a R to E adapter, 1.4X, and then the lens. Almost 400mm with a lot of connecting points. That'd be a mighty demanding set-up even if it were a straight 400mm.

Have you ever considered a Wimberley head? I had a 400mm I couldn't get a tack shape image from until I got one of them. But maybe that was just me.

Curious why you used ISO 50 which is a pulled speed, and not optimal? I think 50 is okay in the studio with very controlled light, but not so sure it is for ambient ... plus you could get the shutter speed up a bit.

As to your question ... I wouldn't have a clue what to expect. I've never had the pleasure of using such a stellar long lens :thumbup:

- Marc

 

[k-hawinkler]

Hi K-Hawinkler,

Thank you for this very interesting comparison : would it be possible to get a 100% crop of the E-M1 results as well ? I don't see much difference between the two shots at the reduced size you have shown. And the fact one can more easily shoot the MFT system handheld is a big plus.

I own an E-M5 plus an EOS-6D and was first interested by getting an A7 to finally be able to shoot my Zeiss Contax G lenses at their real focal length. I did even sell my M6 and 35mm Sumicron in order to fund that (yet kept the 50mm F1.4 and 90mm F2 both pre-aspheric). But the short flange distance have the effect I feared when using wide angle RF lenses. So this has considerable tamed my enthusiasm.

So for the moment, I have an appreciable credit at a brick and mortar camera shop, but have put everything on hold.

Don't you fear that your E-M1 will remain on a shelf now that you have an A7r ?

Thanks Anna for your feedback and questions. Here are my answers.

This is a 1024x1024 crop from the E-M1 image. I tried to match the colors with the A7R image.
This image is a little brighter than the one from the A7R as I wanted to get a little closer to the glare I see with my own eyes.

With regards to your last question, no I am not worried.
I have a number of different cameras and use them for different purposes.
The camera that will get less use is probably my Leica M9.
But it's the only Leica and rangefinder I have ever owned. So, I'll keep it for good.
And I continue to enjoy shooting it and will have it repaired, if forbid, it should develop a problem. Knock on wood!
Although I had planned to get an M240, after a year of waiting I canceled my order.
Too many compromises with the EVF focusing and inferior electronics changed my mind.
Also its infrared filter doesn't seem quite strong enough to avoid any residual infrared contamination, same as with the M8, M9.
I originally wanted the M240 more for my Leica R than my M lenses.
I have never had an FF camera for my FF Leica R lenses and I didn't want to leitax them.

So what do I use my cameras for? A7R and E-M1 for general photography.
They are also great to hand out to other family members to use as P&S cameras.
The A7R is now my general walk about camera.
The E-M1 is my walk about for super tele lenses with the new 75-300 lens.
As before my E-M5 I will also use the E-M1 for birding.
It has better tracking than the E-M5.
Even better tracking has my Nikon D800E with the new AF-S 80-400 VR lens.
But it's too heavy for walking around.
So, I use it mostly for hummingbirds around the house or close to my car.
I like the images the M9 produces, so I will continue to use it for family and landscape shots.

What makes the E-M5 and E-M1 so desirable is their IBIS IMHO.
And that also works with all my Leica M, R, V and Nikkor lenses.

Digital cameras in a way are consumables that get replaced fairly often.
Too often, considering their high cost, but nevertheless.
So my oldest son now has for good my Nikon D300 and D3 and some lenses like the 70-200 VR.
I don't miss the D300, but I do miss the D3 with its great UI and 11 FPS.
As I didn't use it much I didn't want to keep it and it's being used a lot now in capable hands.
I have kept however my Nikon D200 and even had its shutter repaired.
If I am not mistaken it's the last or one of the last CCD sensors in a Nikon DSLR.
It makes great 12 MP images. I particularly like the colors it produces.
But I am most impressed with the colors from the A7R!
The E-M5 with some lenses I will give probably very soon to my other son.
I use my E-M1 basically with two Olympus lenses, both are new, the 12-40/2.8 and the 75-300 II.
Of course, I also use Leica and manual Nikkor lenses on it.

Some of the FF lenses I have I consider my real treasures.
And most of them work well on the A7R, all of them well on the E-M1.
For example I can focus precisely my Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2 WO on the A7R.
But not on the D800E as the green focus confirmation dot is not accurate enough.
Luckily my Leica WATE 16-18-21/4 works very well with LCCs on the A7R, no corner smearing I can detect.
Together with the Leica 28-90/2.8-4.5, Nikkor 28/1.4, Minolta 24-35/3.5, FE 35/2.8 and Noct-Nikkor 58/1.2
I am well covered on the A7R from super WA to normal focal length lenses.
Still need to evaluate for example my Nikkor 14-24/2.8 lens.
I probably will add the FE 55/1.8 to have another AF lens for the A7R.
I am really impressed by the performance of the FE 35/2.8 and expect similarly from the FE 55/1.8.

Short tele lenses seem all fine on the A7R.
However, some adapters were built for the NEX APS-C sensors and don't work for all lenses on the FF A7R.
For example my Phigment adapter for M lenses only, though great on NEX cameras, vignettes on 90 and 135 mm M lenses.
It's great to use on my NEX-5N and NEX-7 as it adds some missing UI features.
On the A7R some of those those features are already built into the camera.

Longer/tele lenses up to 560 mm or even longer create their own challenges on the A7R.
For example heavy vignetting or shutter vibrations if one isn't careful.
I think I got a handle on the shutter vibrations in Landscape but not in Portrait orientation.
I will attempt another stab on the latter once I have an RRS L-plate.

I find image quality-wise no other tele lenses I have tried can match the performance of my Leica R lenses.
Both the Leica APO-Telyt-R 280/4 and Vario-Elmar-R 105-280/4.2 offer unique characteristics.
I will try to avoid shooting them with extenders until I know by how much the latter decrease image quality.
And decrease the extenders do. For extra reach I prefer to shoot the Leica APO-Telyt-R 280/4 on my NEX-7.
This yields a 420 mm 135 film equivalent focal length. The following 20 mile shot was taken with that combination.
I prefer the B&W version of the image as colors always suffer when shot through 20 miles of hazy air.

This is a 100% crop from the upper right.

One can clearly distinguish between burned and unburned forest areas, as well as between aspen and fur trees.
Also, one can clearly see the still standing tree trunks and their shadows in the evening sun.

Unfortunately I have to send my 105-280/4.2 lens in to have it adjusted as it misses by a smidge focusing to infinity.

I hope I answered your questions. Many thanks again for your interest and feedback.

 

[k-hawinkler]

Many thanks Marc for your feedback.
I appreciate that very much, in particular after having read some of your illuminating contributions on LUF with great interest.

So, the set up was a R to E adapter, 1.4X, and then the lens. Almost 400mm with a lot of connecting points. That'd be a mighty demanding set-up even if it were a straight 400mm.

Correct.

Have you ever considered a Wimberley head? I had a 400mm I couldn't get a tack shape image from until I got one of them. But maybe that was just me.

Yes, I have, but only for birding.
So far I have managed to get what I thought were sharp images from even longer lenses with APS-C and MFT mirror-less cameras.
However, in light of the A7R I will have to look at this topic anew. Maybe I wasn't critical enough.
Tomorrow I expect to receive a heavier aluminum tripod so that I can use a long lens support attachment on it.
I can't use the attachment on my sturdy Gitzo tripod as tightening the clamp will crack the carbon fiber leg of the tripod.

Curious why you used ISO 50 which is a pulled speed, and not optimal? I think 50 is okay in the studio with very controlled light, but not so sure it is for ambient ... plus you could get the shutter speed up a bit.

Excellent points. I agree.
I was trying to shoot a number of different ISO values, starting with the pulled ISO 50.
But it was very cold, including the windchill factor, and I gave up after this.
Typically I would not have posted these images, but I was very interested to learn how other folks assess extenders on the 280/4 lens.

As to your question ... I wouldn't have a clue what to expect. I've never had the pleasure of using such a stellar long lens :thumbup:

- Marc

Indeed, a pleasure it is and I feel very privileged having acquired some of these special lenses recently.

Thanks again for your help.