So, are you bothered?

[Ron Pfister]

Many thanks for making the effort to test this, Bill! I suspected this to be the case.

 

[jonoslack]

Turning off the EFC appears to add just over 0.1 seconds of shutter lag.

It feels like enough to change the character of the shutter response from immediate to sit and wait.

-Bill

Thank you Bill
1/10th second is a long time if you're trying to catch a fleeting expression.

 

[jonoslack]

Hi Jono, First off, I thought Matt snapped a younger brother of yours! You need to change the current avatar! :lecture:

Hi Vivek
I guess Matt probably did snap my younger brother

 

[Vivek]

Turning off the EFC appears to add just over 0.1 seconds of shutter lag.

It feels like enough to change the character of the shutter response from immediate to sit and wait.

-Bill

Unlikely to be over 0.1s or even 0.1s. The A7 claims 5fps burst rate. In the continuous mode, only the shot gun shutter works and the e-shutter is disabled.

 

[ohnri]

Unlikely to be over 0.1s or even 0.1s. The A7 claims 5fps burst rate. In the continuous mode, only the shot gun shutter works and the e-shutter is disabled.

But it is.

Test one yourself and then respond.

-Bill

 

[ohnri]

Thank you Bill
1/10th second is a long time if you're trying to catch a fleeting expression.

You are welcome.

Yes, it is a long time. Especially when you add it to the human lag that it takes to push the shutter to begin with.

Together, it's enough to feel slow.

As I said, with the EFC ON the A7 feels quite zippy in terms of lag.

-Bill

 

[ohnri]

Many thanks for making the effort to test this, Bill! I suspected this to be the case.

Disappointing I think. No A7R in my future.

Responsiveness is vital for much of my photography.

-Bill

 

[Vivek]

But it is.

Test one yourself and then respond.

-Bill

Bill, I would love to. but have no clue how! i can test for UV or IR, something optical but no speeds, I am afraid.

is there a simple way that a lay person could do to check this?

 

[jonoslack]

Bill, I would love to. but have no clue how! i can test for UV or IR, something optical but no speeds, I am afraid.

is there a simple way that a lay person could do to check this?

I've no idea how you do it scientifically, but realistically I have a good method.

Go to a bar with a doorway into a decently lit outdoors. Settle down with the drink of your choice (espresso is probably best to avoid person induced shutter lag).

Focus on a point 3 foot beyond the entrance and wait . . . when someone walks past - shoot. If they're in the picture, then the camera has decent shutter lag, if they aren't it doesn't.

I've done this with a number of cameras, and it's unnerving how few of them make the grade.

 

[ohnri]

Bill, I would love to. but have no clue how! i can test for UV or IR, something optical but no speeds, I am afraid.

is there a simple way that a lay person could do to check this?

I took shots of a running stopwatch with a 1/100 sec readout.

I tried to anticipate when the seconds digit would change. That way I account for my biological lag.

I also tried hitting the shutter the instant I saw the seconds digit change. That way I was adding my lag to the camera lag.

I alternated shots between Electronic First Shutter on and off so as to minimize any bias due to a learning effect.

After many images using both techniques I looked to see what time the stopwatch showed at the instant of exposure.

I won't claim I can get 0.01 second accuracy but it was very clear the Electronic First Shutter saves at least 0.1 seconds when in use. I believe it is a bit more than that.

-Bill

 

[iiiNelson]

Beware that impression: it regularly underexposes by between 1/2 and 1 2/3rds stops, it just has very paranoid blinkies. The sensor has, probably for processing pipeline issues, noisier shadows than a D800 so it is vital to expose more to the right than you'd think… as long as you are shooting RAW, that is...

Thanks for the tip. I was just going by the 10-20 test shots I've taken around the house since the camera will primarily be used indoors. It seemed like quite a bit was getting overexposed so now I have the histogram on permanently now. It seems to be reasonably accurate with expected output.

As for how it compares to the D800 - well I have no basis to compare it to for better or worse. I've just never used a D800. After this week and Christmas maybe I will be able to get a more accurate assessment of how the camera will work for me in a real world capacity though with the lenses I currently own.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Turning off the EFC appears to add just over 0.1 seconds of shutter lag.

It feels like enough to change the character of the shutter response from immediate to sit and wait.

-Bill

I know I'm sounding dumb but where is the EFC setting? I can't seem to find it at all in the menu.

 

[Ron Pfister]

I know I'm sounding dumb but where is the EFC setting? I can't seem to find it at all in the menu.

It's only available on the A7, unfortunately.

 

[Vivek]

I know I'm sounding dumb but where is the EFC setting? I can't seem to find it at all in the menu.

There isn't one for you to find in your A7R. "EFC" here stands for electronic first shutter (available in NEX-6, 7, etc and the A7). No such abbreviation exists either.

 

[Vivek]

I took shots of a running stopwatch with a 1/100 sec readout.

I tried to anticipate when the seconds digit would change. That way I account for my biological lag.

I also tried hitting the shutter the instant I saw the seconds digit change. That way I was adding my lag to the camera lag.

I alternated shots between Electronic First Shutter on and off so as to minimize any bias due to a learning effect.

After many images using both techniques I looked to see what time the stopwatch showed at the instant of exposure.

I won't claim I can get 0.01 second accuracy but it was very clear the Electronic First Shutter saves at least 0.1 seconds when in use. I believe it is a bit more than that.

-Bill

Thanks but it will not work for me. I do not believe in your results either.

 

[Vivek]

I've no idea how you do it scientifically, but realistically I have a good method.

Go to a bar with a doorway into a decently lit outdoors. Settle down with the drink of your choice (espresso is probably best to avoid person induced shutter lag).

Focus on a point 3 foot beyond the entrance and wait . . . when someone walks past - shoot. If they're in the picture, then the camera has decent shutter lag, if they aren't it doesn't.

I've done this with a number of cameras, and it's unnerving how few of them make the grade.

Thanks, Jono. I have been shooting with the A7R and as explained in the previous posts, I do not have any lag at all. Coffee (any form) is my favorite drink.

 

[fmueller]

A straw poll of owners and would-be owners of the A7R:



Please state if you are

An owner (and for how long now)

Have ordered and not yet taken delivery

A prospective owner



and if you are bothered by:



Orange peel effect

Jaggies

Shutter sound

Shutter vibrations

Colour shading with native lenses if you have them and with non-native lenses if you have tried them.



I'll start, next post.

I've had the A7r for a little over a week.
Lenses are the 35FE, M lenses with a Voigtlander adaptor, Canon EF lenses with a metabones 3 adaptor.

The "orange peel" is noted, but avoided by easing up on the sharpening.
Shutter sound: I was expecting a loud shutter after early reviews commented on it. It is louder than most but it is what it is. Too bad it doesn't have a silent mode like the Canon 5d3 (I appreciate that camera more every day...)
Shutter vibrations: not an issue yet, I also don't tend to shoot long lenses and when I do, I use pretty fast shutter speeds as demanded by digital sensors, 1/focal length is for film not high res digital. It's a wonderful problem.
Color shading: the flat field plugin works great. My concern is edge smearing and I believe I've got some with my super elmar 21.

Preliminary shots from Canon TS/E lenses are quite good. My EF 50 1.2 looks great also. The metabones adaptor autofocus is pretty weak and I much prefer manual focus.

Final note. I haven't printed any A7r files yet and that is where I will make my final estimation.


Fred

www.fredmuellerphotography.com

 

[ohnri]

A straw poll of owners and would-be owners of the A7R:

Please state if you are
An owner (and for how long now)
Have ordered and not yet taken delivery
A prospective owner

and if you are bothered by:

Orange peel effect
Jaggies
Shutter sound
Shutter vibrations
Colour shading with native lenses if you have them and with non-native lenses if you have tried them.

I'll start, next post.

I have an A7.

I am not bothered by either orange peel or jaggies.

The shutter is a little too loud. When the EFC is OFF it is worse.

I have not yet had issue with the Noct on a Metabones in terms of color shading.

The kit lens, which I have scarcely used, does not appear to have obvious shading but careful analysis may show otherwise.

Shutter lag with the EFC on is minimal.

Shutter lag with the EFC off is unacceptable for my style of photography. Unfortunately, that would seem to rule out the A7R for me for general photography.

Luckily, my D800 is more responsive.

Overall, I find the A7 to be a revelation. It has returned my Noct to me in a package that is, to me, superior to my old M9. I would be happy to shoot sports with the A7 and the Noct as long as the EFC is engaged.

-Bill

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Didn't realise till today, the camera lets you shoot without card, no way to switch that off? I did of course realise the hard way today, wasn't chimping till it was too late and then I notice the little orange writing 'no card' on the screen....

 

[Vivek]

Didn't realise till today, the camera lets you shoot without card, no way to switch that off? I did of course realise the hard way today, wasn't chimping till it was too late and then I notice the little orange writing 'no card' on the screen....

This is for real?! :shocked:

No, that can not be done but this warning flashes in the EVF or the LCD when you are looking to chimp.