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Sony A7r bottom line

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Mine comes this week but as a owner of a D800e and previous owner of 40 and 60 mpx backs I just have to lay it on the line as I read these Sony threads and folks struggling a little with the 36mpx sensor. Folks this is no different than shooting the big guns of Nikon , Phase, Leica s or Hassy not to mention the Pentax 645. The bottom line your in 36mpx plus arena and your fighting a big bull with no red cape. Lol

These sensors need a lot of care with regards to sharp images outside the shutter vibration issue shooting handheld just magnifies the hell out of your technique. Your not going to get away with pixel peeping at slower shutter handheld shots like smaller sensors. Tripods play more into your technique and your abilities to handhold the camera. I think like many D800e users your expecting miracles in this area. It's not going to happen if your trying to squeeze every drop out of this sensor you need to up YOUR game and play with a diffrent set of rules. Also your going to need better glass than ever was needed with smaller sensors. We are talking unchangeable facts here and trying to cheat some of them you will be disappointed with results.

One problem as I see it this thing is small and light and the mindset is you can handhold anything smaller than a full bore DSLR easy but these cams where smaller sensors and did not require better technique. Let me say this another way a small and light cam is great to carry but with this sensor plan on upping your game with a better mindset to a plus 36mpx sensor as it will nail every flaw that you have. You have to take my word on this, been down this road and its work on YOUR end. I hate seeing people disappointed in there results so this cam comes with a very clear warning. Do not under estimate this sensor with sloppy technique. Now this creates more thinking, more work and more creative ability to get everything you can out of it. Seriously if you want to be sloppy and just shoot lights out than a 36mpx sensor may not be for you.

I feel like I just had to say this as a long time Pro and working instructor. Photography is supposed to be fun but crap results after spending your time out in the field is depressing as hell. That is not something I want anyone to experience so take this advice as it's the best I can offer to others.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Mine comes this week but as a owner of a D800e and previous owner of 40 and 60 mpx backs I just have to lay it on the line as I read these Sony threads and folks struggling a little with the 36mpx sensor. Folks this is no different than shooting the big guns of Nikon , Phase, Leica s or Hassy not to mention the Pentax 645. The bottom line your in 36mpx plus arena and your fighting a big bull with no red cape. Lol

These sensors need a lot of care with regards to sharp images outside the shutter vibration issue shooting handheld just magnifies the hell out of your technique. Your not going to get away with pixel peeping at slower shutter handheld shots like smaller sensors. Tripods play more into your technique and your abilities to handhold the camera. I think like many D800e users your expecting miracles in this area. It's not going to happen if your trying to squeeze every drop out of this sensor you need to up YOUR game and play with a diffrent set of rules. Also your going to need better glass than ever was needed with smaller sensors. We are talking unchangeable facts here and trying to cheat some of them you will be disappointed with results.

One problem as I see it this thing is small and light and the mindset is you can handhold anything smaller than a full bore DSLR easy but these cams where smaller sensors and did not require better technique. Let me say this another way a small and light cam is great to carry but with this sensor plan on upping your game with a better mindset to a plus 36mpx sensor as it will nail every flaw that you have. You have to take my word on this, been down this road and its work on YOUR end. I hate seeing people disappointed in there results so this cam comes with a very clear warning. Do not under estimate this sensor with sloppy technique. Now this creates more thinking, more work and more creative ability to get everything you can out of it. Seriously if you want to be sloppy and just shoot lights out than a 36mpx sensor may not be for you.

I feel like I just had to say this as a long time Pro and working instructor. Photography is supposed to be fun but crap results after spending your time out in the field is depressing as hell. That is not something I want anyone to experience so take this advice as it's the best I can offer to others.
:thumbs::clap:
 

pikme

New member
I don't post often but just wanted to say, what a great post!

One problem as I see it this thing is small and light and the mindset is you can handhold anything smaller than a full bore DSLR easy
Even within m4/3 and the smaller 16 mp sensor, this is a frequent problem for newcomers, especially with the longer tele lenses. Nearly impossible to convince anyone coming from D800 or the like that they need to refocus on technique, not shutter shock or IBIS or whatever else is being blamed.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
One other thing and I know for some it is mental having a small cam in hand can actually be worse with camera shake. For some having a bulkier and heavier cam it is easier to handhold. I know makes no sense but sometimes heft helps keep things steady. Also the V grip may help the balance.

One thing I may try on my tripod is I use a pano rail with camera towards the back of the rail and with my Zeiss 135mm I may try to wedge a little spacer under the hood between it and the rail. I need to get everything in hand and see what workarounds I need to do.
 

jlm

Workshop Member
a question i have always had on the back burner:

how much motion blur does it take to reduce the "resolution" of a 36mp sensor to a 24mp?

isn't the better technique with 36mp simply to get the advantage over 24mp?

it always seems to be presented that you cannot ever get a good image with 36mp unless your technique is stellar
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
All very true Guy!

My post #1156 in the images thread is an example of the problems I encounter even at 1600 ISO. Most of my handhold shots that evening, which were mostly at ISO 4000 were not good enough for my standards.

You really need a tripod for these kind of shots with this sensor while with the NEX-7 you could get away with it in most cases like this, although high ISO with this camera is much better.

Another good thing to have is, as mentioned by others in the adapter thread, is a Novoflex adapter with tripod mount collar. I am ordering that for sure for my longer C/Y zeiss lenses. The great 100-300 Vario-Sonnar does need it anyway for all cameras actually because it is way to big without having it's own tripod mount.

Also the battery grip can may be a help to add some steadyness to the camera for handhold shots.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well John you can look at this in a way we look at MF and 35mm we know we lose for instance about 2- 3 stops of DOF but we also lose about 2-3 stops of hand held ability. Now lets say we take that in the MPX race I would assume you would lose about 1or 2 stops of speed over a 16 or 21mpx sensor and maybe a little less over a 24 mpx.


Now about bumping up the speed, sure that would be the first thing that would come to mind but if you need to be at a certain Fstop lets say F8 than you will have to bump up ISO to achieve that and that is not always the quality you want to get away from a base ISO. Even though these cams high ISO has gotten very good your still getting away from the best IQ than at base ISO. So here is where compromises come into play. Depending on what you are doing than it will change your decisions. Event work than who cares higher ISO files are typical and never get printed past lets say 8x10 but if your wanting big prints and shooting landscape getting away from your base ISO is not really a choose you want to make. MF shooters face this all the time as higher ISO stuff is not great in that arena. Great question though and as you can see you will hit a wall somewhere on that and depends what your after.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
All very true Guy!

My post #1156 in the images thread is an example of the problems I encounter even at 1600 ISO. Most of my handhold shots that evening, which were mostly at ISO 4000 were not good enough for my standards.

You really need a tripod for these kind of shots with this sensor while with the NEX-7 you could get away with it in most cases like this, although high ISO with this camera is much better.

Another good thing to have is, as mentioned by others in the adapter thread, is a Novoflex adapter with tripod mount collar. I am ordering that for sure for my longer C/Y zeiss lenses. The great 100-300 Vario-Sonnar does need it anyway for all cameras actually because it is way to big without having it's own tripod mount.

Also the battery grip can may be a help to add some steadyness to the camera for handhold shots.
Exactly this is going to be a issue even at the higher ISO and getting great results but still hitting a shutter speed wall because these sensor demand perfection on our end. Monopods, gorilla pods and table top tripods are all good tools.

I run into this all the time shooting folks at Podiums at corporate events with ambient light. Even at F4 with my Zeiss on a monopod at ISO 1200 I have to be at least 1/200 to stop there movement and mine. Otherwise you see camera movement or people movement. Its a really fine balance between ISO, Fstop and shutter speed. We simply can't underestimate these sensor sizes and the demands they seek. Great post as a prime example of the message here
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
The more I read coupled with my own experiences lead me towards keeping the D800e for lenses longer than 90mm. As much as I dislike the live view with the Nikon I can easily work with it and the more robust mount and lack of visible shutter vibration seals this deal for me. 99% of my images are 90mm and below so this all works out pretty well for me.

Victor
 

mmbma

Active member
The very reason that Sony released the A7. Better for handheld, also better with wide angle leica glass. Many people just wrote that off and went for the A7r without thinking about the need.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
The very reason that Sony released the A7. Better for handheld, also better with wide angle leica glass. Many people just wrote that off and went for the A7r without thinking about the need.
Well, as far as Leica Wide's go I've given up on them. My Summicron 35 and 24 mm Elmarit are useless for me with edge smearing that is totally unacceptable. So, I stop with the Sony/Zeiss 35mm which is a great lens. If I need wider then I'll shoot my Alpa/IQ180. Those shots are fairly limited and mostly confined to Architectural or Garden areas at less than 20 feet.

Victor
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The Zeiss 25 f2 is outstanding . I had it sold it and big mistake as I want it back. Had it the Nikon mount and it's on my plan to get it again.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
My feeling on M lenses if you have them than great but I would buy a SLR mount if I had to choose for the 7r at least under 35mm.
 
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