making compact technical camera for A7/A7r

[Georg Baumann]

Thanks for many interest.


Typical movements is easier than TS lens own movements for many photographers.
and because of not use lens internal movements, all the time Lens center is in center of front frame. It is benefit to avoid interference.

I Understand. Thank you Chiek.

 

[chiek]

Not Bad shifted Edge.
I will post tomorrow.

MAXIMUM image size

24TS-II f3.5L lens Horizontal shift

24TS-II f3.5L lens Vertical shift

please downloading attach file,
It is located extremely edge image, the end of image circle 80mm.

 

[RodK]

Arca-Swiss has just released the Sony bellows for their DSLR2. And we have redesigned the mounting to make it fast and easy to use.
The mount will allow the use of wide angle lenses down to at least 35mm and we are testing to see how short we can go with movement. It appears the 23mm and 28mm Rodenstocks are out. The rear of the lenses, especially on the Rodenstock's is so long that it contacts the body of Nikon's and Canon's below 70mm and even on the Sony A7 may not work.
The Sony A7 series, being mirror-less, allows much shorter lenses to be used, so more soon on this.
I will have pictures soon this week.

Additionally to make it easy to use, the bellows mount works as follows. Mount is pulled off from bellows. That's right, pulled off. It is a magnetic rear lens mount with a finger cutout to make it easy to rotate to connect to the body. Mount the bellows to the the front frame of your DSLR2 and reconnect the two rings via the installed magnets. As the two rings nest inside, a perfect seal and light trap is created. Turn on your body and you are ready to make images. If you want to switch to vertical or vice-versa, you merely need to reorient the body and the bellows mount will rotate in place. You now have an extremely precise camera capable of using wide angle lenses on your DSLR with ease.

All three mounts will be supplied in this form in the future. And the Leica M mount is coming for the M240 crowd.
Enjoy,
Rod

 

[Stefan Steib]

For anyone wanting to squeeze out the last mm of shift/Imagecircle from the Canon TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm V2 we offer special mods to "reach parts other lenses don´t reach"........
Especially for Chieks Camera, HCam-B1 and Alpa FPS and all others which can use TS-E with movements or larger than 24x36 sensors this is the way to get all around about 3mm + for the 17mm and up to 5mm for the 24mm !

PM me for more infos and Pricings/procedures.

 

[chiek]

For anyone wanting to squeeze out the last mm of shift/Imagecircle from the Canon TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm V2 we offer special mods to "reach parts other lenses don´t reach"........
Especially for Chieks Camera, HCam-B1 and Alpa FPS and all others which can use TS-E with movements or larger than 24x36 sensors this is the way to get all around about 3mm + for the 17mm and up to 5mm for the 24mm !

PM me for more infos and Pricings/procedures.

Thanks, Stefan !

 

[wallpaperviking]

Hi,

I have been following this concept very keenly, as it seems perfect for what I am after and much cheaper than any other options available...

I just stumbled across this post where a photographer named Fred Greissing has done a similar thing but he has placed a GX680 front standard onto the rear, essentially giving him both front and rear full movements..

https://secure.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=896067&page=3

This also gives him the ability to stitch on the back, both vertically and horizontally, giving a rectangular image greater than the Rhinocam.. He says the "Virtual sensor area will be 78x58mm"


Just wondering if this is at all possible with your modification? Or is it really only possible with the original GX680 lenses to achieve this?

He also talks about having a Ground Glass for viewing the stitched image but i cannot seem to find that link anymore..

If it was the case that this back was not possible with shorter focal length lenses (like Canon 17mm and 24mm TS-E) would it be possible to have interchangeable backs? Yours when wanting to use shorter focal lengths and then one made up of a recycled front standard that has full movements for stitching?

Ok, thanks so much again, great work!

 

[wallpaperviking]

Here is the link to the other forum where he mentioned having a separate focusing screen for what the final stitched image would look like..

Fuji GX 680 View custom made 36 to 200 MP Tilt shift camera. - FM Forums

Obviously, this setup becomes a whole lot more compact with the Sony A7R!

Any thoughts on what he means by this comment "What is really nice is that the D800 sensor has an anti alias filter so even the 200MP captures will have minimal or no color aliasing artifacts, unlike my MFD backs had, not to mention far more resolution."

Is this an issue with the Sony A7R due to the fact that it is lacking an antialiasing filter?

Thanks again...

 

[chiek]

Hi,

I have been following this concept very keenly, as it seems perfect for what I am after and much cheaper than any other options available...

I just stumbled across this post where a photographer named Fred Greissing has done a similar thing but he has placed a GX680 front standard onto the rear, essentially giving him both front and rear full movements..

https://secure.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=896067&page=3

This also gives him the ability to stitch on the back, both vertically and horizontally, giving a rectangular image greater than the Rhinocam.. He says the "Virtual sensor area will be 78x58mm"

He also talks about having a Ground Glass for viewing the stitched image but i cannot seem to find that link anymore..

If it was the case that this back was not possible with shorter focal length lenses (like Canon 17mm and 24mm TS-E) would it be possible to have interchangeable backs? Yours when wanting to use shorter focal lengths and then one made up of a recycled front standard that has full movements for stitching?

Ok, thanks so much again, great work!

Hi,
Actually, I thought same idea, 3~4years ago. on LULA forum.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?topic=42041
If rear standards is GX680, It may be stitching error during stitching movements. gear driven is more stable for image than standard movements.

Vertical/Horizontal both… It will be complicated. so It may can't short flange back lens like 17,24TS.
I want to keep short flange back to use the Best 35mm lens.
and my design is being improved.
now It is changeable, bellows reversing, so It can use ALL lens, short flange lens and MF, LF lens.

Mirrorless is only answer of this case.
I heard fuji developing FF mirror less but their system is more longer flange back than Sony Emounts 18mm. SONY win.

typical adapter like below,

because of deep lens mounts (includes mirror), It has limited movements.


above test video (youtube)
Canon 24 TS-II lens test with Sony a7 / GX680 combo
http://youtu.be/_WUacBBacwI

 

[chiek]

youtube
canon 17 TS lens test video

 

[Smoothjazz]

Chiek,

I just stumbled upon this thread and am amazed; I was just wondering why there was no bellows option made for many of our cameras, and was looking at the Fuji 680 as a potential solution. Can this be adapted for my Phase/Mamiya 645 camera? I would be interested in one, and if you cannot make the Mamiya adapter, perhaps the machinists at S.K. Grimes could make one.
On the front standard I would want to attach the current Phase/Mamiya lenses.
Thanks,
John

youtube
canon 17 TS lens test video

 

[chiek]

Chiek,

I just stumbled upon this thread and am amazed; I was just wondering why there was no bellows option made for many of our cameras, and was looking at the Fuji 680 as a potential solution. Can this be adapted for my Phase/Mamiya 645 camera? I would be interested in one, and if you cannot make the Mamiya adapter, perhaps the machinists at S.K. Grimes could make one.
On the front standard I would want to attach the current Phase/Mamiya lenses.
Thanks,
John

I will make custom technical camera using GX680 frt in near future.
It has including larger shutter (copal 3 or ilex 4) and Medium format digital back mounts. I think It is almost lens Medium format, large format and 35mm lens (short flange back).

It will be modular system, It means this concepts (a7/GX680 combo) will changeable to MFDB.

It's my next project.

 

[Jérôme.E]

Hi Chiek,

First I'd like to say you've done a wonderful job here!! Very nice project.

I've never used a GX680 camera so i don't know that much on this system.

I'd like to know if:
1) we can rise front then stitch, considering the lens attached gets enough IC, MF or LF lenses for example when (if) you've got the plate. And how much rise "mm" is possible.
2) Better: Rise back then stitch, a bit like an Alpa Max with level stitch adapter:
ALPA Stitch Adapter Max - YouTube
3) Rise the lens (so only TS) then stitch.

As an Architectural photographer features 1) and 2) could make A7/R + "Chiek" system a real game changer :bugeyes:

Thanks
Jérôme

 

[chiek]

Hi Chiek,

First I'd like to say you've done a wonderful job here!! Very nice project.

I've never used a GX680 camera so i don't know that much on this system.

I'd like to know if:
1) we can rise front then stitch, considering the lens attached gets enough IC, MF or LF lenses for example when (if) you've got the plate. And how much rise "mm" is possible.
2) Better: Rise back then stitch, a bit like an Alpa Max with level stitch adapter:
ALPA Stitch Adapter Max - YouTube
3) Rise the lens (so only TS) then stitch.

As an Architectural photographer features 1) and 2) could make A7/R + "Chiek" system a real game changer :bugeyes:

Thanks
Jérôme

This camera enables not only rear X-axis shift, but also front rise/fall +/-13mm.
So it can stitched X axis + Y axis by photoshop photomerge function.

It can build up to over 20000px x 10000px, like rhinocam. But I don't like that because of lens standard shift. It means image may be produced and edited by software (photomerge).
Only rear shift can make pure lens image, I like that.

I agree (2) like alpa max, very difficult making because of short flange back.

I'm thinking about this system + Y axis shift... Actually, it is not impossible but total price is more up and up because of complex design.


I will test medium format lens with this cam, I have mamiya rz 50, 110, 180 and rod digital 60HR and old rodie 80mm digital lens.
But now, I have not adapter or lens board for my lenses.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

Is the rise/fall geared?

 

[chiek]

Is the rise/fall geared?

It has not gear. like standard view camera type.
but It has inner spring for return to zero position.

 

[chiek]

I will test medium format lens with this cam, I have mamiya rz 50, 110, 180 and rod digital 60HR and old rodie 80mm digital lens.
But now, I have not adapter or lens board for my lenses.

165 MEGA PIXELS ! test with Medium format lens

Mamiya RZ 110mm lens, aperture set to F16 with gx680 / a7r
6 shot stitching , Image Size is 105mm x 35mm
23300 px x 7100 px = 165 Mega pixel

Jpeg size is too BIG, so some compressed.
full 100% detail pictures, please visit to
GX680/a7 concepts 165Mega pixel

 

[wallpaperviking]

Whoah! That is awesome! Very impressive!

You mention that it is possible to have a back that stitches both vertically and horizontally and that it would be more expensive to make..

Any idea how much more expensive? Would it be geared?

I would be interested in this as I am mainly interested in a more rectangular end format, closer to 8x10 film..

Ok, thanks again, great work!

 

[chiek]

Full Stitching Test 214 MEGAPIXELS

Full Stitching Test 214 MEGAPIXELS

Mamiya RZ 50mm set to F11, 4sec ISO400 (5 x 2 shot stitching)
cropped image size is 17895 x 11988 pixels. (88mm x 58mm)

front rise with stitching 5cut + front fall with stitching 5cut

Edge Sharpness is NOT GOOD.

Effective sharp image size is approx. 70mm x 50mm.

Because of Front Lens standard movements, Image size is more larger but It is difficult to perfect stitching.
It must use sturdy tripod, all movements lever locked during all shot, Cable release of self-timer needed…

 

[Jérôme.E]

Re: Full Stitching Test 214 MEGAPIXELS

Full Stitching Test 214 MEGAPIXELS

Mamiya RZ 50mm set to F11, 4sec ISO400 (5 x 2 shot stitching)
cropped image size is 17895 x 11988 pixels. (88mm x 58mm)

front rise with stitching 5cut + front fall with stitching 5cut

Edge Sharpness is NOT GOOD.

Effective sharp image size is approx. 70mm x 50mm.

Because of Front Lens standard movements, Image size is more larger but It is difficult to perfect stitching.
It must use sturdy tripod, all movements lever locked during all shot, Cable release of self-timer needed…

Hi Chiek,

Wow it is great!!

Some questions:
. You said it was difficult to merge...like to be forced to make "strong" layers adjustments in Photoshop? Because of lens distortion? I have some kind of troubles to photomerge my 24 TS-E rise/fall stitches sometimes, specially with near objects, even using PT-lens first, that's why I'm asking.

. What would you say about the focal length (35mm speaking) resulting from the sharp 70x50 stitch... 20mm?24mm? (it may exist a kind of calculation for this but it's not my cup of tea! )

. Did you rise/fall max 13mm for the test? So bad GX680 does not front rise more!

. RZ lenses are very nice, sharp and cheap, it's a good option for this system.Did you use a special plate?

I'd enjoy trying this with Contax distagon 35mm 3,5 - 40mm CFE or Hartblei 40 T/S!!
As Wallpaperviking say, it would be great to have an estimate price, as soon as you can, for a geared back X/Y stitch!

Thanks again
Jérôme

 

[chiek]

Re: Full Stitching Test 214 MEGAPIXELS

. You said it was difficult to merge...like to be forced to make "strong" layers adjustments in Photoshop? Because of lens distortion? I have some kind of troubles to photomerge my 24 TS-E rise/fall stitches sometimes, specially with near objects, even using PT-lens first, that's why I'm asking.

. What would you say about the focal length (35mm speaking) resulting from the sharp 70x50 stitch... 20mm?24mm? (it may exist a kind of calculation for this but it's not my cup of tea! )

. Did you rise/fall max 13mm for the test? So bad GX680 does not front rise more!

. RZ lenses are very nice, sharp and cheap, it's a good option for this system.Did you use a special plate?

I'd enjoy trying this with Contax distagon 35mm 3,5 - 40mm CFE or Hartblei 40 T/S!!
As Wallpaperviking say, it would be great to have an estimate price, as soon as you can, for a geared back X/Y stitch!

Thanks again
Jérôme

70mm x 50mm is very similar to 67mm x 56mm, original 6x7 film size.
so It is 20mm focal length to equivalent 35mm film.

GX680 maximum frt rise/fall is 13mm , so I shot frt rise 13mm and fall 13mm. Vertical image size is 13mm + 36mm + 13mm = 60mm.
Final cropped to 58mm.

RZ lens board… I made by plastic for temporary testing.using RZ lens rear cap.
If we make Rz lens board, It needs 1 RZ extension ring, disassemble and put GX680 board.

I agree your opinion Contax 645 distagon 35mm or Hartblei TS40mm , It's best wide lens for medium format.

Rear X/Y shift… It's my goal… Design is completed, Just Only in my thinking. but not yet.

Thanks for interest.