I have what will probably be considered a dumb question.
Here goes - why would you consider an R lens as opposed to a M lens?
R lenses are equally good in performance and usually cheaper than similar M lens. Also R series has longer alternatives. Technically the R series are a better fit, especially for focal lengths below 50mm due longer flange to sensor distance.
Many of the wider M lenses aren't really suited for the 7's causing weird coloring and smeared corners in pictures.
In practise slr lenses work better than rangefinder lenses for 50 and below, regardless of the lens brand.
1 Member(s) liked this post
Not at all, no question is dumb. I can only give my perspective - I cannot adapt M lenses on DSLRs, hence R lenses are preferable in some cases for me in case I want to go to a 50MP Nikon when it comes out. Other reason is that most R wides work well on mirrorless. Most M wides are horrible on anything other than a Leica M. Price is another consideration - in some cases R lenses are cheaper than M counterparts with no loss in IQ.
For the two R lenses I bought above, I feel they are truly unique and best of the best so when the opportunity arose I bought them. Again, my personal subjective opinion.
Hope this helps.
I am thinking about the 80mm Lux, I have the Canon 85 1.2 - the Lux will render different I suppose.
the 80mm lux will render differently from the Canon 85 1.2 since one is 1.2 and the other is 1.4
Also the lenses are different in design as well the 80 lux being a Mandler design when wide open will have more lens aberrations but thats what gives it the look. Lets not forget lens coatings here as well. Canon being a more modern lens coatings
Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.
www.guymancusophotography.com1 Member(s) liked this post
- Adapting SLR lenses proves more compatible with large sensors than adapting RF lenses. This is a side effect of the necessity to design them for a deep mount register to clear the swinging mirror.
- Leica R lenses are in many cases as good or better performers than Leica M lenses. In fact, since I really only have rather old M lenses or Voigtländers, my R lenses are in most cases better performers.
- I bought the Leicaflex SL body and most of these lenses last year to shoot with them on film and hoped to use them as telephoto lenses on smaller format bodies. I found I missed having their designed capabilities expressed in the full format they were intended for ... that's why I bought the A7. I will never buy a Sony lens for the A7, my intent is purely to use it as a "one-size-fits-all" replacement for SLR cameras.
Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream3 Member(s) liked this post
1. If you have the M with new M lenses, then mounting a R lens you might get a slightly different look due to the coatings, but image quality might (at least in the wides) would be at best marginally better. Of course you now have a larger, and heavier lens.
2. The R have the advantage of being "portable" to a Canon or Fuji with a simple converter. While still not really "cheaper" than a "L" lens, the R are extremely sharp and have that "Leica" look.
I think for me at least, I will keep me eyes open for a good opportunity on a R lens with the Canon and Fuji in mind.
The information here - and the lists will become a cheat sheet on the ins and outs of R line.
Thanks so much for sharing
Some R lenses (e.g. 50 summicron) can be easier to handle than their M (v4 Summicron) counterparts IMO.
I never liked the small amount of play with my Leitaxed R lenses for Nikon and converted them all back to original mounts
The Elmarit-R 19 prices that Thorsten Overgaard quotes in the 2010 article linked a few times below have a very nice historical feel to them. Well before the M announcement and long after the DMRs had vanished, he notes that the version 1 could be had used for $1100-1400 and the version 2 topped out at $2000. A few unopened new version 2's he reported as discounted to $3500. On EBay today, the version 1 shows up still at $1200-1600, but the version 2's are up to the low to mid $3000s. From the picture that appears earlier in this thread, the version 1 is HUGE, so I can see why the 2's are market leaders. But if they are still not catching up to the price when new, maybe there remains an investment upside. And for use on an M, there is the possibility that the firmware correction handles the slight distortion that Guy points to at the start of this thread, HMMM....
Folks remember PT lens plug in supports the version Ii distortion. I sent files in to the developer to build a profile for it. Takes seconds to correct in PS. They have many lenses built into the database and if not there are instructions on shooting a couple frames to send into the developer and he will build a profile for it. Works very nice
I'm excited to see what Godfrey comes up with version 1. Its most likely corners and such but it looks to have a nice look and sometimes that is far more important than technical prowess . That's why many of us bought Lux lenses wide open technically they are not great but the look is . Stopped Down they are lasers.
Buying lenses is a art within itself.
I did some quick snaps with it around the condo last evening and it proves to be quite the nice performer in close even wide open. It will be fun to see how it compares to the Elmarit 19 series I.
I don't there's all that much to be gained by thinking of lenses as investments. I think of them as tools. Prices float up and down when they get old enough, but basically they*just depreciate over time through use and age. They only spike up when some current fashion puts them in the limelight for a bit, and if they're particularly rare or desirable at that moment.
Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream2 Member(s) liked this post
nice Godfrey, look forward to seeing comparisons as well
I have the large bulbous Nikkor 15mm f3.5 manual focus lens. Guess that will not compare well with the Elmarit 19mm since it is a very different focal length. Plus it was never a stellar performer wide open at the corners.
R lenses galore and more so.. I just purchased a nice condition R8 also for a measily 400usd. Nice condition, manuals, showcase box etc included. So next week I'll have the summicron R 50 and the R8!
Actually I'll offload the R8 at matching price to a friend who shoots loads of film. I just have 2-3 rolls in my drawers, so I'll push those through just for the experience. It'll be interesting to try one.
I wonder how sales of adapters are going these days, and which mounts are selling. Truly these are the salad days of alternative lens use - we are spoilt for choice! It's a big step forward for photography in the enthusiast category.
Just received my 50 Summicron-R. It is in a great shape, no nasty dings or anything.. focus is buttery smooth and aperture clicks are nice & snappy. It was the lovely Leica sensation I got used to with my previous M-lenses. Excellent stuff and to think I got it for measily 250 euros.. R-Fever!!!!
Need to do some testing with it later today and this week.
I've been trying out the Nokton 40mm f/1.4 MC and M-Rokkor 40mm f/2 gen II on the A7.
I did a tripod-mounted edge and corner test of both last night. Both show falloff wide open and down to f/2.8. The Nokton shows unsharpness and smearing until f/5.6. The M-Rokkor does not show smearing even wide open, and is sharp at the corners by f/2.8-4. The M-Rokkor "feels" sharper immediately as I focus it too.
One thing curious with both is that I find them a bit fiddly to focus, mechanically. The focusing ring is quite close to the body and finding the focusing tab does not feel natural on the A7 as it does on the M9. The big Elmarit-R lenses are just nicer to use on this camera, to me anyway.
Yes, R lens fever ... !
Been doing a tiny bit of testing and it's looking good. The long focus throw takes a bit getting used to, but otherwise smooth sailing. The magnification makes focusing easy, as long as your iso is decent and the screen doesn't have to massively gain. Even when it gets grainy, it's still ok'ish to focus.
And the ability to place magnification window where you need it, is a real killer feature!
Meditating on my testing of the Nokton and M-Rokkor last evening, and using the Nokton over the weekend.
I'm ready to just toss in the towel on using M-mount lenses on the A7/A7r entirely. My longer lenses ... the M-Rokkor 90 and Hektor 135 ... work well enough, but none of the Color Skopars really sing, the Ultron is a mushy mess most of the time, the Nokton 40 is great if you ignore the corners or stop it down to slower than a Color Skopar, the M-Rokkor 40 is better than that, and the Nokton 50/1.5 (LTM) is only just "ok", it does not perform like either the Summicron-R 50 or Summilux-R 50 do. I don't even like using the 40s on this body ... the ergonomics are poor due to the position of the focusing ring and tab.
I might just keep the M-Rokkor 40 on the CL body where it belongs, sell the Nokton 40, and find a Summicron-R 35 for this slot in my lens kit. My A7 will be an all-Leica-R lineup, with a couple of specialty Nikkors complementing it.
Ok, so it was getting dark already by the time I had a chance to do some test shots. And I'm in charge of entertaining my daughter this evening as well, since wife is at work..
So, the following shots are pretty silly really but figured I'll post some first samples anyway. I'm liking what I'm seeing. It's starting to look like I'll need R-line to complement my native FE lenses. And you can get some real gems dirt cheap with the R lenses too!
And I'll apologise in advance, since I think I missed the focus ever so slightly with my daughters picture.. So, here goes nothing:
2 Member(s) liked this post
very nice, if I want to get 2 or 3 R lenses, should I get the ROM version only, or the others also OK with the A7&A7R? There is a big price difference.
Others are okay but will depend on the lens as well as formula's change. Buying R glass like all Leica glass you need to know what to look for. Personally i would not go older than 3 cam versions but that is just a general feeling more than anything else as some old stuff is damn good.
Some general thoughts on Leica R
Crons are very sharp and have nice contrast. Boarder line clinical in look but depends on lens too. F2
Summilux are all Mandler design usually have a great look wide open but with lens aberrations wide open. Lets call it a more veiling look but stopped down very very good. Its what we call a two for one lens. They are all 1.4 and bigger as well and all Crons are F2
Elmarits are all 2.8 and usually very competent lenses if not outstanding like my 19mm since they are 2.8 are easier to design and usually smaller as well. Also will not have that veiling look like the Lux glass.
2 really great elmarits are the late version of the 28mm 2.8 and the 19mm 2.8.
The great Lux glass are several the 35mm 1.4 , 50 1.4 and the 80 Lux is maybe the sweetheart for many folks.
Crons 35mm Cron is a outstanding lens and so is the 90mm Cron. The 50 cron is also very nice
sleeper lens is the 60mm macro
Just some random thoughts
Long glass the 180mm F2 cron is amazing but so is the 2.8 Apo
2-cam, 3-cam or ROM doesn't make any difference for adapted. What does is the version of the lens. ROM versions are usually latest & greatest, but not always! So you need to a) decide your wanted focal, b) check which version is the best or is good enough for you, c) browse ebay & likes searching for suitable lens and then d) check the lenses serial number against Leica wiki database to make sure it's the desired version.
Sounds like trouble but is actually fast operation once you get a hang of it. And outside the exotic models, there are really nice & classic lenses available cheap as chips!
I check the Leica Wiki for serial number/date/model ... seems to be "mostly" right but as has been pointed out by Doug Herr, there are definitely errors in the listings. I also look at Erwin Puts's leica lens book, but you have to take what he says with a certain mindset as what he calls 'some minor issue' is often in any other lens manufacturers' line a quality that can only be dreamed about. They just don't have the Leica Fairy Dust™ manufacturing facility. ;-)
Hopefully the Elmarit-R 19 will be here around the end of the week, otherwise next week.
I wouldn't bother with one for the A7/A7r. If the cost of an Elmarit-19 is out of reach, look for a Nikkor 18mm f/3.5 AI-S. I am stunned with how nicely this relatively inexpensive lens works on the A7. No smearing, and sharp right to the corners at f/5.6. Very little (and easily corrected) barrel distortion too.
I see a good number of them with poor cosmetics on Ebay for $450-550. The one I bought is near mint condition and, with the HK-9 hood, only slightly more than that.
nice Godfrey, I have the VC UW heliar 15mm which I use on the NEX. thanks to the APS-C crop it becomes a 22mm effective but since it is using the best part of the lens, I get excellent corner performance wide open at 4.5 and minimal to no magenta casting thanks to the well designed Sony 16Mp sensor. Another good thing is that even though the 15mm is a FF lens, it is so amazingly tiny compared to most e-mount lens.
Re: CV 4.5/15
I have tried it on the A7r. It is useable if you use one of the correction programs. I have looked at C1, Cornerfix and the the in-camera 'lens compensation' app. It's a whole layer of faff I can do without, but it obviously works and is acceptable for others.
I wouldn't like to use these lenses with the A7r for colour work, but I'm debating keeping the lenses just for B&W work: given the right subject they seem to do well.
I did try a couple of 'quick and dirty' B&Ws, one with the 4.5/15 using C1:
Ben Maye in Ramsey Harbour | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
the other with the 4/21, using 'lens compensation':
Ballaterson | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
When the weather improves I'll do some more rigorous testing using the in-camera app.
That's a good point about using these lenses for B&W only. Forgetting about color solves a lot of the color shift problems... :-)
On a side note: in doing the testing with the Nokton and M-Rokkor 40mm lenses the other night, I had the chance to try out the Novoflex ASTAT/NEX tripod adapter with their M->NEX adapter. It does work well, although fitting it to the camera and then changing lenses is a bit fiddly because the tripod mount's clamp on the adapter nearly covers the lens release button. I found a little stub of a popsicle stick with the end whittled into a short tongue made it a lot easier to depress the lens release button so that I could change lenses.
The Nikon F and Leica R to NEX adapters are quite a lot longer so this issue with the ASTAT tripod adapter doesn't happen with them.
Godfrey - there's a simple work-around with the problem you have with the ASTAT/Nex - see post 115 here: The A7/R Adaptor thread
But that wasn't what I was talking about. The Novoflex NEX/LEM adapter is rather short and the lens release button fits into a recess in the adapter. When you fit the ASTAT, the clamping ring mostly covers the lens release recess, so when you fit a lens there's precious little access to the lens release to change lenses. My little wooden tool lets me press the lens release button to change lenses more easily. :-)
woo hoo! just got a note that the Elmarit-R 19mm will be here on Friday from the post office.
Godfrey - OK - apologies -I need to read more carefully
One quick shot from yesterday, old town of Tallin in Estonia. Staight out of camera, no processing at all. Transferred with Playmemories over wifi to my iPad, so resolution etc accordingly :-)
Anyway, taken with A7r + 50/2 Summicron R and cheap chinese adapter.
1 Member(s) liked this post