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Thread: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

  1. #8951
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    It looks like the car went out of the garage to enjoy the morning sun on his beloved gateway.
    nice story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    My 617 hp 2011 Camaro, Chantilly Lace, sunbathing.


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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    From a recent visit to the Tushar range of Utah.
    They are the 3rd highest range in Utah w Mt. Delano rising to just over 12,000 feet.

    A7RII/ Batis 25
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    My 617 hp 2011 Camaro, Chantilly Lace, sunbathing.


    617 HP is just ungodly.
    Wow !
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    That's probably just the beginning - I wonder what's in the other three garages?!

    Kirk
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    I had (at last!) some time to go back to my holiday shots this february. Here are some more of Cabo Polonio (Uruguay):
    It's an nature reserve to protect the darvin frog. In the middle of this nature reserve, there is a small fishing village and a few rocks with seals. In the 80s Hippies started to build some houses and a community there. Today it's a tourist magnet and some of the illegal builded houses are out of stone and can be rented.


    All shots with A7RII + 28/2 or 90/2.8
    (there are some more shots on flickr)
















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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by seb View Post
    I had (at last!) some time to go back to my holiday shots this february. Here are some more of Cabo Polonio (Uruguay):
    It's an nature reserve to protect the darvin frog. In the middle of this nature reserve, there is a small fishing village and a few rocks with seals. In the 80s Hippies started to build some houses and a community there. Today it's a tourist magnet and some of the illegal builded houses are out of stone and can be rented.


    All shots with A7RII + 28/2 or 90/2.8
    (there are some more shots on flickr)
















    I like the last one the best.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    A7RII Norway ZM25 2.8 FE55 1.8

    Norway by christilou1, on Flickr


    Norway by christilou1, on Flickr
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    Senior Member Lucille's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Last night in Albuquerque.


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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Crowdy head
    North coast, NSW.

    Craig Slingsby
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    200mm and a hefty crop. Not enough reach but hand held from the shore with my A7S. RS300 racing dinghy working its way to windward. I can assure you, a mile of that times three laps hurts.

    Last edited by furtle; 10th July 2016 at 13:24.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    One more from today's breezy race. RS300s and a Contender. Nip and tuck.

    Steve
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Tree stumps at Alder Lake near Mt Rainier:

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Like this. Do not like the mnochromed version.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Like this. Do not like the mnochromed version.
    Thanks, I was trying to see if B&W works with a slightly different view. Over all, I think I like the color version better as well :-)

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil Kalagatla View Post
    Thanks, I was trying to see if B&W works with a slightly different view. Over all, I think I like the color version better as well :-)
    I’m going to get all critical; please don’t get upset with me! All that follows is personal opinion, of course.

    It’s a nice scene with a touch of menace, with the contrast between death and life as a theme, foreground-to-background. Both renders (was it shot RAW?) are much too contrasty IMO, with inky shadows, particularly in the dead stumps. And I find the colour version, which I also prefer, way too saturated—the blues in the BG are especially distracting. Is there any more sky available? I find the top of the frame a bit heavy. And a small amount of vignetting would concentrate the foreground—I use Capture One’s vignetting tool a lot; it can be used quite subtly.

    Re the contrast, I open up shadows with C1’s Shadow HDR tool in just about every processed image from my a7 and Olympus E-M5, unlike with my seldom-used-any-more Leaf back.

    I’d like to see a mono reworking of the image with some silvery mid-tones …

    Hope you find this POV of some use.

    [and is your monitor calibrated?]
    Last edited by mediumcool; 10th July 2016 at 18:51. Reason: added returns
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Hi Ian:

    Thanks for taking the time for your very thoughtful response - I think you're on the money with everything you say below. I tried to rework the picture with some of your feedback as best as I could. It looks like I've developed some post processing bad habits: aggressive cropping of the sky, a little heavy on the S-curve (that's what increased the contrast and saturation) etc. Also, once you mentioned it, I noticed the blue cast in the tree stump :-(



    Anil

    Quote Originally Posted by mediumcool View Post
    Iím going to get all critical; please donít get upset with me! All that follows is personal opinion, of course.

    Itís a nice scene with a touch of menace, with the contrast between death and life as a theme, foreground-to-background. Both renders (was it shot RAW?) are much too contrasty IMO, with inky shadows, particularly in the dead stumps. And I find the colour version, which I also prefer, way too saturatedóthe blues in the BG are especially distracting. Is there any more sky available? I find the top of the frame a bit heavy. And a small amount of vignetting would concentrate the foregroundóI use Capture Oneís vignetting tool a lot; it can be used quite subtly.

    Re the contrast, I open up shadows with C1ís Shadow HDR tool in just about every processed image from my a7 and Olympus E-M5, unlike with my seldom-used-any-more Leaf back.

    Iíd like to see a mono reworking of the image with some silvery mid-tones Ö

    Hope you find this POV of some use.

    [and is your monitor calibrated?]
    My Pictures
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil Kalagatla View Post
    Hi Ian:

    Thanks for taking the time for your very thoughtful response - I think you're on the money with everything you say below. I tried to rework the picture with some of your feedback as best as I could. It looks like I've developed some post processing bad habits: aggressive cropping of the sky, a little heavy on the S-curve (that's what increased the contrast and saturation) etc. Also, once you mentioned it, I noticed the blue cast in the tree stump :-(



    Anil
    I can think of only two ways to further improve this version. One is to even out the skyís colour and tone across the frame (I know thatís fiddling with Nature!), and I would desaturate the dead stumps somewhat to emphasise their deadness. And on my iMacís screen, the shot looks a little yellow overall (but I havenít calibrated for some time).

    Talking about habits, it is so easy to get into a rut!

    And a full-range mono version perhaps?

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    And a full-range mono version perhaps?
    Yeah, I'm going to tackle that now (with a somewhat fresh outlook) :-)

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil Kalagatla View Post
    Hi Ian:

    Thanks for taking the time for your very thoughtful response - I think you're on the money with everything you say below. I tried to rework the picture with some of your feedback as best as I could. It looks like I've developed some post processing bad habits: aggressive cropping of the sky, a little heavy on the S-curve (that's what increased the contrast and saturation) etc. Also, once you mentioned it, I noticed the blue cast in the tree stump :-(



    Anil
    Anil, I like the second version better, there is an obvious WB issue with the first one.

    Regarding saturation, contrast, color vs monochrome etc. These are all highly personal tastes. What is interesting is that American photographers tend to favor high saturation and contrast whereas those in Europe and elsewhere like it toned down - at least this is what I've heard from many 'pros' and amateur photographers on various trips around the world.

    If 500px is anything to go by, the trend now is for very high saturation/contrast with an almost HDR (though not quite) look to landscapes. Yes, one might hate that but if that's what the world wants, that's what the world gets. I am not a pro, don't intend to sell anything so I can do what I like with my images. For those who make a living from photography and to whom high contrast and saturation is anathema will find it hard to protest the work of one very well known Australian who shall remain nameless

    One Australian whose work I definitely admire is Peter Eastway (I am sure Ian knows him). He does not make any bones about most of his images being worked on extensively before the final product.

    But, to each his own, I guess.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    A few from Hamburg, Germany


    Harbor Tour

    FE 28mm F2 - ƒ/5.6


    (guy in striped shirt seems to be holding a Leica Q)


    Zigaretten Machine

    FE 28mm F2 - ƒ/9.0





    Brahms Kontor Building

    FE 70-300mm G - ƒ/8.0 @ 136.0 mm





    By the Lake

    VC 10mm F5.6 - ƒ/10.0

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    What is interesting is that American photographers tend to favor high saturation and contrast whereas those in Europe and elsewhere like it toned down—at least this is what I’ve heard from many ‘pros’ and amateur photographers on various trips around the world.
    Probably used to be true and remains fairly valid, but the nature of communication nowadays means that trends whirl around the world in the blink of an eye. My view of how [monochrome] pictures should look was formed by looking at [reproduced] work by photographers such as Paul Strand, Edward Weston, Ansel Adams and Fred Picker. They tended to a full tonal range with great separation in the mid-tones, a result of the H&D S-curve so characteristic of silver-based materials. The epitome of this was the Zone System, which I have taught in workshops.

    Colour is harder to quantify, as the colour data utterly swamps tonality—try taking a tonally-unimpressive mono shot back to colour, and the additional visual information will often make it more interesting. I do love monochrome for its necessary concentration on tonality and texture. And there’s an almost compulsory nostalgia component with black and white too. One trend I am glad to see the back of (almost) is the coloured object against a greyscale background. It still pops up though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    If 500px is anything to go by, the trend now is for very high saturation/contrast with an almost HDR (though not quite) look to landscapes. Yes, one might hate that but if that’s what the world wants, that’s what the world gets. I am not a pro, don’t intend to sell anything so I can do what I like with my images. For those who make a living from photography and to whom high contrast and saturation is anathema will find it hard to protest the work of one very well known Australian who shall remain nameless
    I ran a commercial photography business for 30 years, and would do pretty much anything to make a photograph work for a client; of course, for many years all a photographer could do was select camera and lens, film, paper, and processing that would help achieve a desired result. Digital manipulation makes all sorts of things possible and appealing because of speed, ease, and low cost (once equipment and software is paid for, that is). Someone once said; what Photoshop (I started with v1.0.7 which ran off a floppy!) needed was a Taste filter—Adobe still haven’t incorporated one. On that theme, I see a lot of experimental techniques posted on here lately that do a disservice to the image IMO; I have never felt the need for external filters and sharpening modules etc. Capture One, Pixelmator, and the occasional launch of the un-Mac-like Photoshop are sufficient to my needs. This experimentation recalls the camera club manipulations of yesteryear—bas relief, high contrast, solarization etc.; they all seemed to be a substitute for careful seeing and capture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    One Australian whose work I definitely admire is Peter Eastway (I am sure Ian knows him). He does not make any bones about most of his images being worked on extensively before the final product.
    I don’t know Eastway, but he’s been around the Australian photo magazine scene for a long time, and is now a sort-of spokesman for Phase One. His work is probably a little too dramatic for my taste (and his web portfolio pix I have just looked at are over-sharpened for the screen) but he has a good eye—sort of a Steve McCurry of landscape, if that’s not too controversial! I don’t know how long he’s been using Capture One, but I bet it’s more than my six years.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by mediumcool View Post
    Probably used to be true and remains fairly valid, but the nature of communication nowadays means that trends whirl around the world in the blink of an eye. My view of how [monochrome] pictures should look was formed by looking at [reproduced] work by photographers such as Paul Strand, Edward Weston, Ansel Adams and Fred Picker. They tended to a full tonal range with great separation in the mid-tones, a result of the H&D S-curve so characteristic of silver-based materials. The epitome of this was the Zone System, which I have taught in workshops.
    Agree, the world is rapidly becoming 'flat' as some would say

    I printed my first photograph around 1970 or so and there was of course no color printing then, but I grew up in a poor country and did not have the luxury of anything more than simple prints made at home with make-shift components. Since then I've loved the monochrome medium and have several versions of my images hanging on my walls at home. Not having grown up with comparisons with the greats, I simply did what I liked and that's the beauty of being an amateur, you can. My own preferred look is full tone, med to high contrast and a slight hint of sepia, but that's just me. Now I add back a little of the color in the main subject, especially for my wildlife images, digital allows this manipulation which would be near impossible in the old days.


    Colour is harder to quantify, as the colour data utterly swamps tonality—try taking a tonally-unimpressive mono shot back to colour, and the additional visual information will often make it more interesting. I do love monochrome for its necessary concentration on tonality and texture. And there’s an almost compulsory nostalgia component with black and white too. One trend I am glad to see the back of (almost) is the coloured object against a greyscale background. It still pops up though.
    Agree, I find it hard to wrap my head around impressionism or any sort, give me the classics any day.


    I ran a commercial photography business for 30 years, and would do pretty much anything to make a photograph work for a client; of course, for many years all a photographer could do was select camera and lens, film, paper, and processing that would help achieve a desired result. Digital manipulation makes all sorts of things possible and appealing because of speed, ease, and low cost (once equipment and software is paid for, that is). Someone once said; what Photoshop (I started with v1.0.7 which ran off a floppy!) needed was a Taste filter—Adobe still haven’t incorporated one. On that theme, I see a lot of experimental techniques posted on here lately that do a disservice to the image IMO; I have never felt the need for external filters and sharpening modules etc. Capture One, Pixelmator, and the occasional launch of the un-Mac-like Photoshop are sufficient to my needs. This experimentation recalls the camera club manipulations of yesteryear—bas relief, high contrast, solarization etc.; they all seemed to be a substitute for careful seeing and capture.
    Yes, the need of the hour seems to be to be as bold and 'in your face' as possible. Witness the popularity of apps that allow you to distort photographs like the crazy mirrors in carnivals.

    I don’t know Eastway, but he’s been around the Australian photo magazine scene for a long time, and is now a sort-of spokesman for Phase One. His work is probably a little too dramatic for my taste (and his web portfolio pix I have just looked at are over-sharpened for the screen) but he has a good eye—sort of a Steve McCurry of landscape, if that’s not too controversial! I don’t know how long he’s been using Capture One, but I bet it’s more than my six years.
    He is indeed a Phase man now, what is interesting is his technique in photoshop. Let's face it, few landscape photo these days can be printed SOOC, most require processing to a variable extent. He does work very hard to get the image right in camera itself though. I've met several Australian photographers who know him, one of them actually attended a workshop with him.

    And no, he's no Steve McCurry, thankfully. In landscapes you can tell your version of the truth, nobody cares.....

    My thousandth post! Do I get a Hasselblad?[/QUOTE]

    One can always dream.........
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Old fire engine in a tiny little museum nearby. This is the only item they allowed for picture.

    7R2 + Sigma 35mm Art @ f3.5, 1/13s, ISO 3200


    7R2 + FE 35mm ZA @ f10, 6s, ISO-50 - The bird stood still for me


    7R2 + FE 35mm ZA @ f5.6, 4s, ISO-50
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Now some flat/no-pop landscapes from a European.
    To be a little bit more serious on this "off-topic discussion": In my opinion people were so used to look at this analogue-holiday-picture-look, that they still think, this is the realistic look. And the oof-jpg-algorithms still try to fullfill this look. With the possibilities in processing new looks getting established: The Zeiss-pop-, HDR-, saturated-, natural/flat-look, etc. In my opinion this is great, because we can be more creative. Although, sometimes it's not that easy to understand others processing decisions.
    In a constructivistic point of view, no style is realistic. They are just a view on a RAW-file.

    After the series of the small vilage in Cabo Polonio (Uruguay), I want to show you some pictures of the surounding area. There is a big dune towards the north, with very little vegetation.


    All shots with A7RII + FE 28/2, 55/1.8 or FE 90/2.8 G Macro

    Let's start with a picture of the darwin frog, which is the reason for the nature reserve Cabo Polonio:












    And the look back to the small village with the hippie community:

    Last edited by seb; 12th July 2016 at 04:24.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by seb View Post
    Now some flat/no-pop landscapes from a European.
    To be a little bit more serious on this "off-topic discussion": In my opinion people were so used to look at this analogue-holiday-picture-look, that they still think, this is the realistic look. And the oof-jpg-algorithms still try to fullfill this look. With the possibilities in processing new looks getting established: The Zeiss-pop-, HDR-, saturated-, natural/flat-look, etc. In my opinion this is great, because we can be more creative. Although, sometimes it's not that easy to understand others processing decisions.
    In a constructivistic point of view, no style is realistic. They are just a view on a RAW-file.
    Point taken. And nice pictures too.

    The truth is though, that even with digital, a picture without any adjustments (RAW, not in-camera jpg) does not really look like reality. Every time I come across a beautiful scene and try to capture it, it comes out dull, insipid, flat, almost lifeless, certainly not as I remember it. Of course a static two-dimensional image cannot capture the riot of color, the sounds, the wind blowing through my hair (what little is left), the movement of the waves and finally the sheer joy of being with a loved one at that point in space and time.

    Every attempt after that is to recreate not just the scene as I saw it but the emotions that went with it at the time. Often this requires conversion to something completely different, i.e. monochrome which of course is not how the vast majority of us sees the world and yet it conveys a mood, an emotion that made us take the picture in the first place.

    In the film days, landscape photographers would use media like Kodachrome or even Fuji Velvia to bring out the best in color and saturation in their work. Color print film hardly did justice to photography the way slides did, until digital and the ability to post-process. And that ability is what separates each of us and our vision.

    We are all so different in so many ways that it is inevitable our tastes differ too. That, is to be celebrated, IMHO.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    From the series "unremarkable borough and suburbs" (by night)

    Rue de l'Envol, Sion-Ouest.
    Sony A7rm2 and Canon TSE 45mm F2.8

    Note the trail left by the passing car backlights : they are curiously discontinued. I think it is due to the LED used ? (You may need to look at the larger version available in my Flickr account in order to see it better).


    Rue de l'Envol, Sion - 20160709_022a7r2i by rrr_hhh, sur Flickr

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    From the series "unremarkable borough and suburbs" (by night)

    Rue de l'Envol, Sion-Ouest.
    Sony A7rm2 and Canon TSE 45mm F2.8

    Note the trail left by the passing car backlights : they are curiously discontinued. I think it is due to the LED used ? (You may need to look at the larger version available in my Flickr account in order to see it better).


    Rue de l'Envol, Sion - 20160709_022a7r2i by rrr_hhh, sur Flickr
    X-Ray vision.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    " Sunset At Grotto Dei Pescatori "
    Lake Lugano





    Sunset At Grotto Dei Pescatori by Werner Utsch, on Flickr

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Taken last Monday (when we had some sun ) - St Nectan's Glen.

    It is believed locally that, in the sixth century, Saint Nectan had a hermitage above the waterfall, and rang a silver bell to warn ships of the dangers of offshore rocks at the mouth of the Rocky Valley during storms.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nectan%27s_Glen

    Many Arthurian links also to this sacred site.



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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Barry, wonderful composition and well done with the colors. Thanks for showing it here.

    The last part of my Cabo Polonio series shows you some pics of the beach. A day it was very windy. The sand in the air washed the colors out. On others there were just great sunsets. Sometimes we had jellyfishes in the water, but it depended from where the wind came.


    All shots with the A7RII + FE90/2.8 G Macro (except the one with the playing people: 55/1.8)












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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Old asphalt works . Noisy , dirty , but I love such industrial buildings .

    SONY A7II + LOXIA 2/35mm

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by seb View Post
    Barry, wonderful composition and well done with the colors. Thanks for showing it here.
    Another lovely set of images again seb and many thanks for the kind words.
    I just treated myself to a new 27" Eizo ColorEdge (+ PC) at the weekend, so hopefully I won't screw up the colours quite as bad as I have done in the past
    Caveat...It's still no cure for colour blindness though!

    A7R + 21mm Loxia





    Last edited by Barry Haines; 13th July 2016 at 14:41.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Early evening light along the wooded stream.
    A7RII + FE 35mm Distagon at F1.4



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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    Taken last Monday (when we had some sun ) - St Nectan's Glen.

    It is believed locally that, in the sixth century, Saint Nectan had a hermitage above the waterfall, and rang a silver bell to warn ships of the dangers of offshore rocks at the mouth of the Rocky Valley during storms.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nectan%27s_Glen

    Many Arthurian links also to this sacred site.



    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    Another lovely set of images again seb and many thanks for the kind words.
    I just treated myself to a new 27" Eizo ColorEdge (+ PC) at the weekend, so hopefully I won't screw up the colours quite as bad as I have done in the past
    Caveat...It's still no cure for colour blindness though!

    A7R + 21mm Loxia





    Thanks Barry. Terrific images. Can one take a shower there? Have you?
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Barry. Terrific images. Can one take a shower there? Have you?
    Thanks Karl, you definitely need some wellington boots in order to get close enough to the waterfall...the waterspray gets you and your lenses pretty soaked
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Great discussion so far around how we see, remember and then try to recreate our mood or vision in our pictures. I'm again reminded of how great this forum and the community is! Looking at my recent (and very meager) output of pictures, I see that I have been overdoing contrast (and saturation as a side-effect) and this conversation has been a good nudge for me :-)

    Following up on a previous comment, I tried to redo the mono version (I had previously posted it in the B&W thread). This is different in tone (so to so speak) and not as contrasty and amped up as the previous one. Still not happy yet as I'm not achieving the right tonal separation, but at least it's no longer hurting my eyes when I stare at it for a while :-)



    Also, Ian has generously agreed to take a crack at it if possible - I'm looking forward to seeing his mono version using my raw image. Thanks again, Ian, this is much appreciated!

    Anil

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil Kalagatla View Post
    Yeah, I'm going to tackle that now (with a somewhat fresh outlook) :-)
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    I was so pleased to see seb's first series above, with gentle pastel tones!

    IMO Anil's problem has mainly been over-processing, trying to achieve what's called pop instead of trying to attain a rich tonal range, which is IMO the widest-spread 'sin' that I see on the web - though it's just not acceptable for reputable gallery/museum exhibits, book publication, and the like. The present version has blocked-up highlights. Trying to achieve pop through contrast (or color saturation) too often has this result. Suggest making a Curve to open the shadows more, bring the midrange down a bit, and introduce gradation into highlights. (I think mediumcool and I have similar ideas about this.)

    Wandering off topic In the direction of a couple of previous comments: I have trouble when folks discuss the aspects of technique that merge into style by invoking what is an 'amateur' or 'professional' standard. Quality in any field - photography, boatbuilding, ceramics, etc.- isn't a matter of untutored preference, nor of commercial acceptance. There's always a 'state of the art,' and work that's moderately interesting accepts it, while creative work pushes it a bit farther. Neither the web viewer nor the hired photographer has a privileged grip on this. It takes some knowledge of the history of photography and quite a bit of time spent looking at images in galleries or museums or on occasional trips to a library. There's a tradition of excellence, to be viewed and internalized but not just imitated.

    Meandering farther, I believe it also helps to take art classes (not just workshops from folks with a gimmic to promote) and to join a critique group with others who are trying equally hard to express themselves.

    Just another two cents, and apologies for wandering so far from the topic of images taken with Sony cameras. I tend appreciate it when folks say more than 'Like' and try to help one another with their work. So glad to see others doing this on this thread.

    Kirk
    Last edited by thompsonkirk; 14th July 2016 at 00:23.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Anil Kalagatla View Post
    Great discussion so far around how we see, remember and then try to recreate our mood or vision in our pictures. I'm again reminded of how great this forum and the community is! Looking at my recent (and very meager) output of pictures, I see that I have been overdoing contrast (and saturation as a side-effect) and this conversation has been a good nudge for me :-)

    Following up on a previous comment, I tried to redo the mono version (I had previously posted it in the B&W thread). This is different in tone (so to so speak) and not as contrasty and amped up as the previous one. Still not happy yet as I'm not achieving the right tonal separation, but at least it's no longer hurting my eyes when I stare at it for a while :-)



    Also, Ian has generously agreed to take a crack at it if possibleóIím looking forward to seeing his mono version using my raw image. Thanks again, Ian, this is much appreciated!

    Anil
    I have to say that this is one tough original, at least when trying to do it justice without the glamour of colour information. Accordingly, I think that this is best as a colour picture, in part because the lighting is so flat (overcast?). I will post a colour and a mono version later.

    New-found respect for Anilís interpretations thus far!
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Maybe we can make a rule for this thread: If you are commenting off topic, you still have to show a picture.

    In Anils shot, the biggest issue is the haze. With a lot of haze things with more distance looks less contrasty and blue-ish. But "blue-ish" is very simplified. The color shift on far away subjects depends on distance, lightsource and on the color and current brightness of the thing itself.

    If we process the picture in a natural way, everything is fine. but if you add contrast with an RGB-curve (LR and PS do it this way) the "blue-ish" gets unrealistic colorshifts. And as we want to have the haze away, we push contrast there even harder and everything gets even worse.

    In PS you can add contrast without the color shifts (use curves (with luminance)) or you add colorbalance (with curves (normal) where you change the R-G-B-channels seperately). You have to work with luminousity masks on these curves to seperate areas and/or colours..

    Here an example of an own picture.
    The first pic is the imported raw processed through C1 and exported to PSD. In C1, I set a LUMA-curve, compressed the dynamic range with the HDR rulers and reduced contrast in general. In the unprocessed RAW you will see a outburned white sky, a grey-blue wall as a hill and a too dark city. Maybe I will add a jpg of it this evening. At the moment, I don't have access to the RAW-file.



    The second shows all processing without colour curves for the hill. As the hill isn't completely separated to the rest (because I'm using luminity masks) there is also some color shift on other areas. But it shows quite nicely the bad blue-ish cast the more far away anything is.



    The last is the definitive picture. Beside contrast I added three different curves with different curves for each R-G-B-channel to the hill. Each to parts with different parts of brightness and light. At the end I added saturation to the hills.



    The picture looks like a painting now, because I reduced any haze effects (or tried to at last). It's never ever realistic, but that wasn't my goal anway.

    What I wanted to say with my wall of text: You can oversaturate pictures, but you may adjust colors and contrast depending on the distance.


    And here's my picture (for not being off-topic):
    A7RII + 55/1.8
    (side note: heavily contrasted, oversaturated and unrealistic colors )

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by seb View Post
    Maybe we can make a rule for this thread: If you are commenting off topic, you still have to show a picture.
    +1

    (side note: heavily contrasted, oversaturated and unrealistic colors )
    It (colors) is not unreal (may be impossible to see where you took it). Nature/reality is more creative than many of us
    (See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-Heaven.html)

    The light (AKA "Dutch Light") was real. A snap (RX1R II) from yesterday.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Energetically bouncing light! Its a pleasure to see you were able to hang onto, or recapture, so much shadow/highlight detail. That makes it a really good example for the thread.

    Kirk
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonkirk View Post
    I was so pleased to see seb's first series above, with gentle pastel tones!

    IMO Anil's problem has mainly been over-processing, trying to achieve what's called pop instead of trying to attain a rich tonal range, which is IMO the widest-spread 'sin' that I see on the web - though it's just not acceptable for reputable gallery/museum exhibits, book publication, and the like. The present version has blocked-up highlights. Trying to achieve pop through contrast (or color saturation) too often has this result. Suggest making a Curve to open the shadows more, bring the midrange down a bit, and introduce gradation into highlights. (I think mediumcool and I have similar ideas about this.)

    Wandering off topic In the direction of a couple of previous comments: I have trouble when folks discuss the aspects of technique that merge into style by invoking what is an 'amateur' or 'professional' standard. Quality in any field - photography, boatbuilding, ceramics, etc.- isn't a matter of untutored preference, nor of commercial acceptance. There's always a 'state of the art,' and work that's moderately interesting accepts it, while creative work pushes it a bit farther. Neither the web viewer nor the hired photographer has a privileged grip on this. It takes some knowledge of the history of photography and quite a bit of time spent looking at images in galleries or museums or on occasional trips to a library. There's a tradition of excellence, to be viewed and internalized but not just imitated.

    Meandering farther, I believe it also helps to take art classes (not just workshops from folks with a gimmic to promote) and to join a critique group with others who are trying equally hard to express themselves.

    Just another two cents, and apologies for wandering so far from the topic of images taken with Sony cameras. I tend appreciate it when folks say more than 'Like' and try to help one another with their work. So glad to see others doing this on this thread.

    Kirk
    Very well written, Kirk. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

    What is art? We could go on forever debating this. Entire books have been written on the topic without making the slightest difference in how people perceive it. I have wrestled with it myself. Have done the usual rounds of museums, galleries (always make it a point to visit a photo gallery wherever I can), bought coffee table books (have so many that an entire bookcase is filled with them). I've even taken a year of art class - you know the one where you learn to draw and paint still life and landscapes. I did that to understand how light affects things, in order to improve my own work. I highly recommend it by the way.

    I've also done a lot of training in photoshop, was a beta tester for several versions of it a few years ago.

    All of this has led me to believe, and I must disagree with you here, is that art is what appeals to you as an individual. Art evolves over time and is subject to cultural, social and religious influences that play a huge role in how artists and viewers alike see it. And this applies not just to visual but all forms of creation - be it music, literature, sculpture, even the performing arts. I go to the Guggenheim or MoMA, but for the life of me cannot appreciate most of the stuff there, give me the good old Met any day. And yet, people are crazy about Picasso and all those that choose to imitate him.

    Back to photography......

    I still maintain that even in the medium we love, it is an individual choice, often dictated by whether the work is done for a client or for one's own viewing pleasure. There are no rights and there are no wrongs, there is nothing that dictates high contrast, high saturation is bad and low-contrast, 'natural' is better or more pleasing aesthetically.

    Many of the images in the list of the most expensive photographs in the world would, IMHO never make it to my own wall or on my list of what is 'art'. Yet, the world believes otherwise, who am I to argue with it?

    Sometimes an image is provocative and interesting, without meeting the tonality criteria, check out Andy Lee's gallery. Very dark, emotive, with no detail in the shadows at all, but they work. For me the monochromatic theme really sets off the mood.

    Lurie Belegurschi is quite the opposite, in color and highly saturated, yet he is one of the top rated photographers on 500px.

    Fred Fertik's interpretation of everyday things is quite colorful too, and IMHO very impressive. Now, that's what I call art and would happily hang his stuff on my wall.

    Patrick DiFruscia is another one whose work I admire.

    This is not to say that soft, low-contrast, unsaturated images are not appealing. Given the right subject they too can be very powerful, I love the classic 'park bench and tree after a snowstorm' look. There are many many photographers who excel at these 'high-key' images and a lot of that is very impressive.

    The point I am trying to make is that there are no rules, at least in my book. You shoot what you like and you process it how you want to. If I am not trying to impress a client or a potential customer then I get to do with my images what I want and that indeed is a privilege. If my own family and friends like my work, they ask for it and I give it away for them to hang on their walls. THAT, believe it or not makes my day more than anything else.

    Oops. I didn't get the memo in time, so no photo with this reply. Will make amends soon.....
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    +1



    It (colors) is not unreal (may be impossible to see where you took it). Nature/reality is more creative than many of us
    (See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...st-Heaven.html)

    The light (AKA "Dutch Light") was real. A snap (RX1R II) from yesterday.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
    Ah, Vivek, I really like this one.

    One question, how do you get away with photos of people like this? I find it hard to do it, perhaps because I am a bit shy of pointing my camera at some stranger in the street. New Yorkers are less forgiving too, which is another issue.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by seb View Post
    Maybe we can make a rule for this thread: If you are commenting off topic, you still have to show a picture.
    What if you haven't got an A7 series camera? If that's no problem it's also +1 for me
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    OK, making amends

    Here is one I took a while ago, on a most memorable trip to what I would consider the best museum of its kind in the world.

    The photo is of the recreation of Christiaan Barnard's OR, with the wax models representing the famous surgeon, the patient and his assistants performing the first heart transplant in the world in 1968. The set up is authentic to a 'T', including the splash of blood on the assistant's cap from a punctured artery. For those in the medical field, it is great to see the blackboard as in a real OR, along with all the other paraphernalia.

    I got goose bumps just being there. Absolutely, highly recommended.

    Anyway, here's a photo to meet the requirements of this thread.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by mediumcool View Post
    I have to say that this is one tough original, at least when trying to do it justice without the glamour of colour information. Accordingly, I think that this is best as a colour picture, in part because the lighting is so flat (overcast?). I will post a colour and a mono version later.

    New-found respect for Anilís interpretations thus far!
    Thanks Ian, I'm looking forward to your versions. I guess I did indeed pick a somewhat hard subject (definitely exceeding my skills at this moment). The sky was indeed overcast in the foreground, though the hills were sunlit (leading to the mixed lighting and the resulting blue foreground cast).

    Quote Originally Posted by seb
    In Anils shot, the biggest issue is the haze. With a lot of haze things with more distance looks less contrasty and blue-ish. But "blue-ish" is very simplified. The color shift on far away subjects depends on distance, lightsource and on the color and current brightness of the thing itself.
    Yeah, that's definitely one issue (among others) - I did address it somewhat in post with a graduated filter with dehaze (I didnt dare push it too much as it started looking even more unnatural). At least this matches what my eye was seeing (the strange disparity between overcast highly saturated foreground and somewhat hazy background hills).

    Quote Originally Posted by thomsonkirk
    IMO Anil's problem has mainly been over-processing, trying to achieve what's called pop instead of trying to attain a rich tonal range, which is IMO the widest-spread 'sin' that I see on the web - though it's just not acceptable for reputable gallery/museum exhibits, book publication, and the like. The present version has blocked-up highlights. Trying to achieve pop through contrast (or color saturation) too often has this result. Suggest making a Curve to open the shadows more, bring the midrange down a bit, and introduce gradation into highlights. (I think mediumcool and I have similar ideas about this.)
    Agreed - strangely enough I have not been a big fan of over processing in photographs of others, but somehow I seem to be doing it more recently (this thread will hopefully fix that affliction!).

    To offset my wall of text, here're a couple of pictures. The first one is on-topic, a recent picture with A7Rii and Leica 50mm APO. The second one is an older mono picture (not on an A7, so probably off-topic).

    20160522-untitled-001
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    I keep it short, thanks for the answers. Great community you are.

    @Vivek: One of your best (in my opinion). Light, sharpness, composition, woman matches perfectly.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Thank you, Pradeep, for the compliment. And very little difference of opinion here. I only want to balance your idea that art is what appeals subjectively to the individual (or the opposite pole, that it can be defined 'objectively' by expert critics) against something else, a viewpoint deriving from Wittgenstein: Art isn't something existing subjectively or objectively, but is a busy kind of game that plays out through discourse or conversation. It's happening whenever someone exhibits something that advances/shifts/questions/disrupts the dialog.

    I'm sure we're only inches apart about about this, and now it must be time to go out for Fun with The Sony A7 Series Cameras (All of Them).

    Kirk

    Edit: Just remembered I'm supposed to post an image to contribute to this thread. Here's a gentleman of the old school holding a private conversation on the subject of 'What Is Art?" The other 'voice' in his dialogue is some new work ca. 1970 by Eva Hesse. In the language of Artspeak, he's said to be interrogating it.

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    Either Nikkormat or first Leica, around 1970. The glowing outline around the figure isn't from Photoshop Ė it's from a then-fashionable style of development with little agitation in diluted Rodinal.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Ah, Vivek, I really like this one.

    One question, how do you get away with photos of people like this? I find it hard to do it, perhaps because I am a bit shy of pointing my camera at some stranger in the street. New Yorkers are less forgiving too, which is another issue.
    Thank you, Pradeep!

    People just come and crash into my frames.

    Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr

    I have not been to NY but I thought it is a haven for street photography?
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

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