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Thread: Fun with the Sony A7 Series Cameras( all of them)

  1. #3101
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Colson View Post
    In my narrow photographic world, "oof" means "out of focus". My humor tends to be less than obvious. My apologies to the artist and to you Michiel.

    Joe

    Honestley I never thought of that, but then I am not from the land of abbreviations. How ignorant. I just liked the abstraction of it.

    Barry, I knew you could do it; finally publish an OOF picture.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    I decided to seek some shelter this raw, blustery afternoon so decided on the vacant farmers market. A few shots with the A7R+Actus+Rodenstock 55. No tilts or perspective corrections, just used shift and rise/fall for composition and stitching. All at f/11, ISO 100. This lens does suffer some from flare (no lens hood), but CA is very well controlled and it is sharp across the frame.

    3 shot horizontal stitch at the Steamboat Landing



    market entrance, 2 shot vertical stitch



    interior, looking back towards entrance, single shot.



    interior, looking south towards waterfront trailhead outside, single shot.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by ZoranC View Post
    With all due respect I feel this post is "not safe for work" and thus shouldn't have been made in thread that is meant for general public viewing and is not marked as "not safe for work". I feel consideration should be given to others, what kind of situation / hot seat post like this one could land person that innocently opened page while at work or while children are around, and respect that people have a right not to be exposed to nudity in public without agreeing to it. That is why marking threads as NSFW and not posting NSFW content in threads that are not marked as such has been widely accepted and acknowledged as common 'net courtesy. Not respecting that is rude. Thus due to all of this I would appreciate if picture in this post is at least not posted in manner that automatically displays it and is clearly marked as NSFW, if not removed.


    pop censorship like this is "not safe for this website"

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series


    yeah, you love him or hate him...

    it's one crazy fella, but I had some good laughs.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    good not everybody has lost their sense of humor

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    "Patterns Of Old Industry"
    Out of use furnace
    Neunkirchen, Germany




    DSC00519.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr
    Last edited by W.Utsch; 23rd October 2014 at 10:59.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    Cool shot. What part of AFG is that?
    Its the North Eastern fringe of Kabul City. There's quite a lot of new development there just south of large swathes given over to military/contractor compounds just outside the airport. The country has remarkable geology and 'human scarring'. The interplay between the two is very interesting too. I'll be putting up some larger images on my blog in due course, as the project and editing takes further shape.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Michiel, your work often reminds me of Richard Estes, a masterful photo realist painter whose paintings are based on photographs he has taken. There is a wonderful show in Washington DC now of his work at the Smithsonian American Art Museum.

    I always enjoy seeing your "reflection" photos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    New York window

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  10. #3110
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    This is in deed significantly the same point of view.
    Although I would not dare to to paint them.
    Really beautiful work. Are they exhibiting his photographs as well?
    I think I must have seen some of his work in the 70's

    For me the source were sculptures like this made by me.
    I was just writing this sentence for a ( reflection of there facade photographed through a moving streetcar) bookcover I just made for the 175th anniversary of an art club (Arti et amicitiae) here in Amsterdam.

    It is exactly where my steel and glass sculptures were about; reflection and transparency and thereby creating a new structure in space

    BTW I didn't take this photograph

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    Its the North Eastern fringe of Kabul City. There's quite a lot of new development there just south of large swathes given over to military/contractor compounds just outside the airport. The country has remarkable geology and 'human scarring'. The interplay between the two is very interesting too. I'll be putting up some larger images on my blog in due course, as the project and editing takes further shape.
    I imagine. I haven't been there since early 2012 though. It's really a beautiful and scenic country. Definitely a lot more to it than the war torn land, mountains. and rocks you typically see on TV. Up north is extremely green and beautiful... In another more peaceful world it would be another place to plop a celebrity resort.
    Priolite Ambassador | Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Excellent sculpture, Michiel!
    It is really blending over to your "Window Dressings"....
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Michiel,

    They were not showing the photographs. I would have liked to have seen them. The paintings are very large and I imagine the original photographs were small.



    [QUOTE=Michiel Schierbeek;607608]This is in deed significantly the same point of view.
    Although I would not dare to to paint them.
    Really beautiful work. Are they exhibiting his photographs as well?
    I think I must have seen some of his work in the 70's

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    Excellent sculpture, Michiel!
    It is really blending over to your "Window Dressings"....
    Thank you Werner; much appreciated!

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Hand held 800iso (BLENCOMO Treatment).
    Silver Efex Pro 2 Sepia toned - Blended with Photomatix Tonemapped colour.



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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Buttermilk Falls taken with the A7R+Actus+Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f/6.8.

    Carl
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Buttermilk Falls view from the trail. A7R+Actus+Rodenstock Granadagon-N 90mm f/6.8

    Carl
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Peeling Paint. Abandoned house near Buttermilk Falls. A 6 shot stitch with A7R+Actus+Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f/6.8.

    Carl
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    "Torrent"





    DSC00506.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    Hand held 800iso (BLENCOMO Treatment).
    Silver Efex Pro 2 Sepia toned - Blended with Photomatix Tonemapped colour.



    This file looks exactly like what came out of my Sigma DPm2. Funny.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    This is also an exellent Contax N lens.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    This file looks exactly like what came out of my Sigma DPm2. Funny.
    Michiel...EXACTLY?
    Link please Michiel (You have me very curious now) as I "NEVER" intentionally intend to copy anybody else on this forum (I would credit the photographer if I ever did)...A WATE fitted to a Merrill would be funny indeed.
    BTW I thought you never came to England because of the tabloids this was taken in Truro Cathedral, Cornwall, ENGLAND.
    Tonemapping and HDR is pretty standard these days when used in dark buildings like churches etc. If only to help get over DR problems, ie. trying to balance details in bright colourful church windows with the dark shadows. Photomatix does have a particular signature all of it's own, so did you tonemap or HDR your Merrill shot?
    I effectively tonemapped this twice (Blending the same Photomatix image with the sepia SE Pro2 image) with just a single exposure as I had no tripod to take multiple bracketed HDR shots...Cheers Barry
    Last edited by Barry Haines; 25th October 2014 at 03:55.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Barry, did you tonemap a single exp. (don't know if that is possible) or did you "develop" different exp to make a (pseudo) HDR?

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    Barry, did you tonemap a single exp. (don't know if that is possible) or did you "develop" different exp to make a (pseudo) HDR?
    Hi Werner,
    Yes it's a single exposure tonemapped image...The latest version of Photomatix allows you to tonemap single exposures (see dialog box on the left before proceeding).
    You don't have to open up multiple bracketed shots...I do this regularly as I can't abide carrying around a tripod any longer (it stays in the car).
    The very earliest Photomatix (version 1) was a plug-in filter to Photoshop and worked on single shots only and not multiple bracketed images.

    I will just add that "EVERY" image that I have ever uploaded to date on this forum was made from a "Single" image.
    I have done in the past Photomatix HDR multiple exposures but you have not seen them yet.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Thanks, Barry have to try that...

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    Thanks, Barry have to try that...

    I do hope you give it a try Werner, as I know you like to experiment as I do...Tonemapping may not perhaps be as accurate as HDR imaging but in a lot of situations it can look pretty well as good as IMHO, with the added bonus of not always having to carry around a tripod.

    Tonemapping is a form of pseudo HDR imaging (High Dynamic Range). It only needs "ONE" set of colours to work on to map out an image to give the appearance of high dynamic range.
    Tone mapping - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "Tone mapping is a technique used in image processing and computer graphics to map one set of colors to another to approximate the appearance of high dynamic range images in a medium that has a more limited dynamic range."

    Whilst on the other hand - HDR imaging (High Dynamic Range) tends to blend 2 or more images together that cover the full range of luminosity.
    High-dynamic-range imaging - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "High-dynamic-range imaging (HDRI or HDR) is a set of techniques used in imaging and photography to reproduce a greater dynamic range of luminosity than possible using standard digital imaging or photographic techniques."

    But I am sure you already knew that
    Simply open your single image into Photomatix Pro (Stand alone version) and select Tonemapping on the left hand side and away you go...Cheers Barry

    _______________________

    Taken a few hours ago on the south coast of Cornwall...This is the ancient fishing village of Polruan (Opposite Fowey).
    As usual I didnít have my tripod with me but was lucky enough to find a secure fence to rest my camera on as the light was disappearing fast.
    This time I managed to get away with a 4 second exposure at F8 and 50 iso (BLENCOMO treatment).



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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    Michiel...EXACTLY?
    Link please Michiel (You have me very curious now) as I "NEVER" intentionally intend to copy anybody else on this forum (I would credit the photographer if I ever did)...A WATE fitted to a Merrill would be funny indeed.
    BTW I thought you never came to England because of the tabloids this was taken in Truro Cathedral, Cornwall, ENGLAND.
    Tonemapping and HDR is pretty standard these days when used in dark buildings like churches etc. If only to help get over DR problems, ie. trying to balance details in bright colourful church windows with the dark shadows. Photomatix does have a particular signature all of it's own, so did you tonemap or HDR your Merrill shot?
    I effectively tonemapped this twice (Blending the same Photomatix image with the sepia SE Pro2 image) with just a single exposure as I had no tripod to take multiple bracketed HDR shots...Cheers Barry
    No worries Barry
    Let's not get things complicated because of the word exactly. I am not talking about the subject, but the type of file the texture and the colours, the brown/greenish colour temperature and the somewhat harsh sharpness of it reminds me of the DP2m files.
    Dpm files look tonemapped by themself at least that is my impression by their sheer sharpness and somewhat false colours. Let's say they often tend to go in the sepia direction. Brown/greenish
    In the end I was not very happy with their colour rendition, at least if you want to get the colours right which was a hard job on those files also in landscapes, although I loved the sharpness especially for texture.

    So all I am saying is that in my humble opinion your treatment resulted in something that looks like a dpm file. Tonemapping and sepia

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    _______________________

    Taken a few hours ago on the south coast of Cornwall...This is the ancient fishing village of Polruan (Opposite Fowey).
    As usual I didnít have my tripod with me but was lucky enough to find a secure fence to rest my camera on as the light was disappearing fast.
    This time I managed to get away with a 4 second exposure at F8 and 50 iso (BLENCOMO treatment).
    Nice picture Barry !
    If you allow me one question : why did you chose such a long exposure ? Was that in order to smooth the clouds and water ?

    From what I read concerning the A7r sensor, I would have picked ISO 200 or 400 and given your distance and the performance of the 55mm I would have opened at F4, or even wider @ F 2.8. Especially since you didn't have a tripod along with you.

    Plus @ ISO 50, you loose some DR and I don't think that you get less noise. The optimal performance is reached at ISO 200 with that sensor.

    I'm sure you know all that, hence my question.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Barry, i did a quick test of the tone mapping in Photomatix, though nothing to post yet it looks promising. I only did "real" HDR's so far but not too many...


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    DSC00499.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    Nice picture Barry !
    If you allow me one question : why did you chose such a long exposure ? Was that in order to smooth the clouds and water ?

    From what I read concerning the A7r sensor, I would have picked ISO 200 or 400 and given your distance and the performance of the 55mm I would have opened at F4, or even wider @ F 2.8. Especially since you didn't have a tripod along with you.

    Plus @ ISO 50, you loose some DR and I don't think that you get less noise. The optimal performance is reached at ISO 200 with that sensor.

    I'm sure you know all that, hence my question.
    Many thanks Annna T...Always happy to answer (sensible) questions as yours is

    I tried various EV combinations as the light was getting dimmer...I think I took around 40 images in all!
    I first started out with a more sensible choice of aperture/shutter speed with a faster ISO and then experimented seeing just how slow I could get the shutter speed down to by simply hand balancing it on top of the fence.
    On inspection at home I decided to go with the smooth water image (4 seconds was the maximum I could hold it still).
    Comparing the SOOC jpg shows much lower noise than the final finished processed image that you see here (BLENCOMO treatment increases it somewhat).
    I was unaware that you loose DR at 50 ISO + Surprised that the optimal performance for the A7R sensor is at 200 ISO (I must admit pixel peeping thatís not my experience in daylight). Although I was aware that thermal noise starts coming into play at low EVís. (I live and learn - Thanks).

    To be honest I'm not so hung up about "Noise" as some others are here...In my Leica M and R days I used to deliberately enhance the acutance of film grain (Tri-X and TMax 3200) by developing in Agfa Rodinal and making small prints.



    Quote Originally Posted by Michiel Schierbeek View Post
    No worries Barry
    Let's not get things complicated because of the word exactly. I am not talking about the subject, but the type of file the texture and the colours, the brown/greenish colour temperature and the somewhat harsh sharpness of it reminds me of the DP2m files.
    Dpm files look tonemapped by themself at least that is my impression by their sheer sharpness and somewhat false colours. Let's say they often tend to go in the sepia direction. Brown/greenish
    In the end I was not very happy with their colour rendition, at least if you want to get the colours right which was a hard job on those files also in landscapes, although I loved the sharpness especially for texture.

    So all I am saying is that in my humble opinion your treatment resulted in something that looks like a dpm file. Tonemapping and sepia
    Worried! ĒSimilarĒ type of file then



    Quote Originally Posted by W.Utsch View Post
    Barry, i did a quick test of the tone mapping in Photomatix, though nothing to post yet it looks promising. I only did "real" HDR's so far but not too many...
    Werner, very nice picture I always like longish exposures with fast moving water, glad you had a go at the Tone mapping...Cheers Barry

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Sunrise in NY

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    canon 24 TS A7R, quite a bit of shift down
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Aother
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by lowep View Post


    pop censorship like this is "not safe for this website"
    I know some people are slow(er than others) but you are joining in two months behind.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Flickr Photostream
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Last of the fresh cut flowers from the garden. Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f/6.8 on Cambo Actus with Sony A7R.

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    "Fall Leaves"





    DSC00540.jpg by W.Utsch, on Flickr
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    Many thanks Annna T...Always happy to answer (sensible) questions as yours is

    I tried various EV combinations as the light was getting dimmer...I think I took around 40 images in all!
    Wow ! 40 images ! That's even more than myself (and I'm already flooded with same shots of everything). I find it hard to get more disciplined and to only keep the best ones. How do you manage so many files ? That is a lot of work to sort it all out and then to store the best.

    I first started out with a more sensible choice of aperture/shutter speed with a faster ISO and then experimented seeing just how slow I could get the shutter speed down to by simply hand balancing it on top of the fence.
    On inspection at home I decided to go with the smooth water image (4 seconds was the maximum I could hold it still).
    Thanks for your explanations. I see the challenge. Holding the A7r perfectly still for 4 sec. is quite a performance, even leaning on a barrier.

    I was unaware that you loose DR at 50 ISO + Surprised that the optimal performance for the A7R sensor is at 200 ISO (I must admit pixel peeping thatís not my experience in daylight). Although I was aware that thermal noise starts coming into play at low EVís. (I live and learn - Thanks).
    DPreview has shown that in its review of the A7r. 50 ISO, like on many other cameras is a "fake ISO" : the camera overexpose and boost the shadows afterward. This results in a loss of DR in the highlights. They have issued a graph illustrating that here (look for the last graph at the end of the page).

    I got a little unsure about 200 ISO offering better performance than ISO 100. I used to shoot at ISO100, then read about the 200 ISO being better and switched to ISO200. So I made a little more research and nothing confirms that : ISO100 offers also better DR and lower noise (although the difference is subtile). May be those who propagated the idea that it is better to shoot at ISO200 were taking the higher resolution of the sensor in consideration and pushing for faster speeds. Personnally, not having very steady hands, I tend to prefer ISO200 rather than ISO100.

    Here is what I found concerning the variation of DR and noise depending on the ISO used :

    DXO data

    Sensorgen

    This last series of graphs is interesting : contrary to what DPreview states they indicate sligthly better results with ISO50 than ISO100. But the difference is sot subtle as to be negligible. In theory, DPreview should be right, but what Sensorgen found out seems to match what you say.

    To be honest I'm not so hung up about "Noise" as some others are here...In my Leica M and R days I used to deliberately enhance the acutance of film grain (Tri-X and TMax 3200) by developing in Agfa Rodinal and making small prints.
    I like a clean digital look. May be because I never had a darkroom. I shot several years with film, but used to scan my negs or slides. Digital cameras were a real relief :-) and they made the learning of photography technique so much easier.

    Thanks for all the explanations you are always generously offering.

    BTW : your costal pictures of England are always so beautiful that they make me wish to pay a visit there once.
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  40. #3140
    Senior Member Barry Haines's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series


    40 images ! That's even more than myself (and I'm already flooded with same shots of everything). I find it hard to get more disciplined and to only keep the best ones. How do you manage so many files ? That is a lot of work to sort it all out and then to store the best.


    Hi Annna, to be honest 40 images is generally on the low side for me when I see something that I want to capture (I'm sure I'm not alone here)...I pretty well machine gun a subject to death, scan through the JPEG's quickly as they display faster than what RAW does on my ancient PC when I get home, then just grab the corresponding best RAW image and work on that...Needless to say I am now on my second A7R.
    I just buy a couple of 2TB Western Digital passports each year and save the good with the bad (Shameless to say that is mostly everything)...I really haven't the patience to sort them all out nor the inclination...Storage is so cheap these days and time is much more important to me (I can still see to my parents and have a life at the end of the day).



    Thanks for your explanations. I see the challenge. Holding the A7r perfectly still for 4 sec. is quite a performance, even leaning on a barrier.


    As you say it was the challenge that interested me at the taking stage.


    DPreview has shown that in its review of the A7r. 50 ISO, like on many other cameras is a "fake ISO" : the camera overexpose and boost the shadows afterward. This results in a loss of DR in the highlights. They have issued a graph illustrating that here (look for the last graph at the end of the page).

    I got a little unsure about 200 ISO offering better performance than ISO 100. I used to shoot at ISO100, then read about the 200 ISO being better and switched to ISO200. So I made a little more research and nothing confirms that : ISO100 offers also better DR and lower noise (although the difference is subtile). May be those who propagated the idea that it is better to shoot at ISO200 were taking the higher resolution of the sensor in consideration and pushing for faster speeds. Personnally, not having very steady hands, I tend to prefer ISO200 rather than ISO100.

    Here is what I found concerning the variation of DR and noise depending on the ISO used :

    DXO data

    Sensorgen

    This last series of graphs is interesting : contrary to what DPreview states they indicate sligthly better results with ISO50 than ISO100. But the difference is sot subtle as to be negligible. In theory, DPreview should be right, but what Sensorgen found out seems to match what you say.


    Thank you so much for that Annna...I tried to do a search for that information (DR on 50 ISO & 200 ISO optimal) without any joy...I will have a look this evening, now that you have pointed me in the right direction...much appreciated.



    I like a clean digital look. May be because I never had a darkroom. I shot several years with film, but used to scan my negs or slides. Digital cameras were a real relief :-) and they made the learning of photography technique so much easier.

    Thanks for all the explanations you are always generously offering.

    BTW : your costal pictures of England are always so beautiful that they make me wish to pay a visit there once.


    Thank you again Annna, I think you would like Cornwall, so many interesting things to photograph (not cities though).
    Please don't get me wrong regarding grain in film...I encouraged the enhancement of it in smaller formats like 35mm film but when I was shooting 10x8 or 14x11 inch sheet film I did everything that was possible on this earth to extinguish it!...In fact I was completely obsessed with it's removal/disguise ie. FP4+, TMax 100 and Tri-X developed in my own staining Pyro developer, contact printed onto a slow silver chloride paper (Kodak Azo, which I used to get from Michael A Smith) developed in my own Amidol paper developer...That will still give you a much "CLEANER" looking (Contact size) print than anything digital even today IMHO. I realize noise is different from grain but it just doesn't bother me all that much...If you like the clean digital look you should go with that...You are most welcome Annna, always happy to share...I do ramble on a bit so apologies to others here...Cheers Barry
    Last edited by Barry Haines; 27th October 2014 at 11:35.
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  41. #3141
    Senior Member Barry Haines's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    DPreview has shown that in its review of the A7r. 50 ISO, like on many other cameras is a "fake ISO" : the camera overexpose and boost the shadows afterward. This results in a loss of DR in the highlights. They have issued a graph illustrating that here (look for the last graph at the end of the page).

    I got a little unsure about 200 ISO offering better performance than ISO 100. I used to shoot at ISO100, then read about the 200 ISO being better and switched to ISO200. So I made a little more research and nothing confirms that : ISO100 offers also better DR and lower noise (although the difference is subtile). May be those who propagated the idea that it is better to shoot at ISO200 were taking the higher resolution of the sensor in consideration and pushing for faster speeds. Personnally, not having very steady hands, I tend to prefer ISO200 rather than ISO100.

    Here is what I found concerning the variation of DR and noise depending on the ISO used :

    DXO data

    Sensorgen

    This last series of graphs is interesting : contrary to what DPreview states they indicate sligthly better results with ISO50 than ISO100. But the difference is sot subtle as to be negligible. In theory, DPreview should be right, but what Sensorgen found out seems to match what you say.
    That was an interesting read Annna (Thank you once again )...I'm not sure I am any the wiser, perhaps I should do a few tests of my own...I made a few changes to my normal camera settings and will see if I can see any real world difference at the lower ISO's, especially the highlights.

    I have included the links for others to see below.

    Sensorgen..... Sensorgen.info data for Sony A7R

    Dpreview.... Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review
    Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review

    One of the problems is that Sensorgen don't tell you what the camera settings were that they used and that WOULD affect the results...Their results are totally different (@ 50 ISO) from DPreview's as you say.
    Cheers Barry
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    Senior Member Barry Haines's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Three adults tragically died at the weekend at Mawgan Porth beach
    (Witnesses have reported that they were trying to save young surfers in difficulty).



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    Senior Member Annna T's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    That was an interesting read Annna (Thank you once again )...I'm not sure I am any the wiser, perhaps I should do a few tests of my own...I made a few changes to my normal camera settings and will see if I can see any real world difference at the lower ISO's, especially the highlights.

    I have included the links for others to see below.

    Sensorgen..... Sensorgen.info data for Sony A7R

    Dpreview.... Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review
    Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review

    One of the problems is that Sensorgen don't tell you what the camera settings were that they used and that WOULD affect the results...Their results are totally different (@ 50 ISO) from DPreview's as you say.
    Cheers Barry
    They are using both DXOmark data and statistical data which they compute using Rawdigger. They extract the data from the raw files using converters like DCRAW, aka they try to get the rawest data possible (not what you get from commercial converters like LR, C1, or DXO, where a ), their only goal is to analyse the pure sensor performance, before any settings are applied. When you open an image in Rawdigger, you get a statistical analysis and a graph instead of a converted picture : it isn't for the faint of heart :-)

    There are some explanations there and links to the results of other cameras/sensors: Sensorgen - digital camera sensor data

    There is another website explaining sensor performance : Clarkvision I'm sure it had a page allowing you to compare the performances of different cameras depending on the ISO used, but I couldn't find that page again.
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    Senior Member Barry Haines's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    They are using both DXOmark data and statistical data which they compute using Rawdigger. They extract the data from the raw files using converters like DCRAW, aka they try to get the rawest data possible (not what you get from commercial converters like LR, C1, or DXO, where a ), their only goal is to analyse the pure sensor performance, before any settings are applied. When you open an image in Rawdigger, you get a statistical analysis and a graph instead of a converted picture : it isn't for the faint of heart :-)

    There are some explanations there and links to the results of other cameras/sensors: Sensorgen - digital camera sensor data

    There is another website explaining sensor performance : Clarkvision I'm sure it had a page allowing you to compare the performances of different cameras depending on the ISO used, but I couldn't find that page again.
    Thanks again Annna...You have obviously spent much, much more time than me delving into all of this.
    I think Sensorgen's calculations as you say are from the physical raw RAW information gathered from all the many different cameras that they have tested to date with DXO.
    This link is for the calculations if anybody is interested..I will admit it's all a bit beyond me http://www.sensorgen.info/Calculations.html

    When I read on DPreview (A7 model and to some extent the A7R) that just switching off the high ISO noise reduction physically meant that the actual RAW file itself was still being subjected to noise reduction...I begin to question what is a normal RAW file!...That is why I said I will try altering my cameras settings (A simple test that we can all do). I now wonder which camera settings did Sensorgen actually use to determine their results that they have presented to us?

    Sony Alpha 7 Review: Digital Photography Review
    See under "Posterization"
    Turning the cameras' 'High ISO NR' to 'Off' improves matters (at all ISOs), because the standard processing appears to be supressing noise to such a degree that you lose the 'dithering' effect that noise usually brings to tonal transitions. The downside is that you have to put up pretty noisy high ISO images (noise reduction, in both JPEG and Raw is still being applied in the 'Off' setting).

    I could see a noticeable amount of "extra" noise at 200 ISO compared to 50 ISO (ACR NR off) on the ACR noise comparison chart...I wonder if 200 ISO is really the optimal ISO to go for if you are using ACR which many of us are.
    Sony Alpha 7R Review: Digital Photography Review
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Just got my A7r. Paired it with my Canon glass and took a little trip to Moab

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Haines View Post
    Not a A7 file, but love them massive horns.



    Last edited by Georg Baumann; 28th October 2014 at 04:19.
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    Not a A7 file, but love them massive horns.



    Georg, your horn is massive compared to mine!
    Earplugs are mandatory on those foggy days.
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    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    The Island Ailsa Craig can be seen in the background of the fog horn. It is the only place in Scotland where the material for curling stones comes from. Red, Green and common Ailsa granite are used for poslishing. The granit is more dense than usual, but still has superb polishing qualitites.

    One company only is allowed to harvest the granite, and only from rocks that are to be fund, no mining operation or dynamite allowed as thisw is a nature reserve for birds.

    There is one more place where such stone can be found, I believe it is in Wales.

    http://www.kaysofscotland.co.uk/about-ailsacraig.php

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

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    Re: Fun with the Sony A7 and A7r series

    Taughannock Falls on the west shore of Cayuga Lake. Sony A7R, Cambo Actus, Rodenstock Grandagon-N 90mm f/6.8. Two shots stitched.



    Lower falls at the bottom of the gorge just above lake level. A 9 shot stitch using AutoPanoPro3. Should have used a wider focal length for this scene, but 90 is all I had in my bag at the time.



    Hemlock roots on the gorge walls. Single shot.

    Last edited by scho; 28th October 2014 at 18:59.
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