Decisions Decisions

[johnnygoesdigital]

The X-Pro 1 I had must be faulty as it does not have a video button, thankfully. The X-T1 does however.

The function and control wheel to be more specific...

I'm guessing the internal battery is the issue with the A7, but perhaps I'll try it again in a few weeks. I really was impressed by the form factor though and the Zeiss glass was the clincher. I'm curious about upcoming native lenses for these models.

 

[Chuck Jones]

Charge the camera/battery before use = Standard Operating Procedure. Not reading the manual is such a "Guy Thing"

Given the battery consumption, I would have preferred a standard 2 battery charger with the A7/A7R plus the USB cord … because I can charge the camera using my cars' USB port, or from my laptop when traveling light. So, I like the USB cord, and see its' value … but not at the expense of a regular overnight plug-in the wall charger. Makes you wonder what other corners they cut to bring "Mighty Mouse" to market at this price point?

Luckily, after using it for some time now, I haven't found any other cut corners. I'm thinking of adding the A7 to the A7R so I have a quieter camera when desired, and a back-up using the same lenses when traveling. Prices and packages are falling already, so it's getting more attractive.


- Marc

VERY close to making this exact same decision & for the same reasons. Great minds think alike, or is it just misery loving company?

 

[iiiNelson]

VERY close to making this exact same decision & for the same reasons. Great minds think alike, or is it just misery loving company?

That's what I did... Except I didn't have the patience for price drops.

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

Charge the camera/battery before use = Standard Operating Procedure. Not reading the manual is such a "Guy Thing"

Given the battery consumption, I would have preferred a standard 2 battery charger with the A7/A7R plus the USB cord … because I can charge the camera using my cars' USB port, or from my laptop when traveling light. So, I like the USB cord, and see its' value … but not at the expense of a regular overnight plug-in the wall charger. Makes you wonder what other corners they cut to bring "Mighty Mouse" to market at this price point?

Luckily, after using it for some time now, I haven't found any other cut corners. I'm thinking of adding the A7 to the A7R so I have a quieter camera when desired, and a back-up using the same lenses when traveling. Prices and packages are falling already, so it's getting more attractive.


- Marc

Actually, reading the manual is the first thing I did. It's not rocket science, but at first I thought the adapter was a charger. I don't think it should be too hard to get a charger and a few spares and have them both be charging at the same time. The A7 is the one to get for Leica wides it renders better than the M...imo

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Actually there are some sweet trade in deal packages right now. Plus 300 dollars off plus points. But I have both already . Lol

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Check this out

Sony_TUTI

 

[Chuck Jones]

That's what I did... Except I didn't have the patience for price drops.

The price drops are even more incentive. The only thing holding me back is a wife with a nasty big rolling pin, a wicked bass guitar, and firm "guidance" to please sell off the older gear to pay for it first She never says no, but she is always more prudent with money than I am. :ROTFL:

I don't have an M any longer, so that old "rangefinder in my blood" thing has already wained for me. Good thing too, as that price tag would be sure to raise more than an eyebrow. The X-E1 & GH3 for me duplicate what the Sony also does, so no great hesitation letting go of them.

The tough one for me is giving up the 5D III, as it is my security blanket, for lack of a better description. It is big and heavy, uses big and heavy lenses, and takes quite a lot of ancillary gear to fully rig out. Gives you a big and HEAVY rig in the end, but a rig I know I can get the shots with. It also has by far the best autofocus system and camera controls of all the cameras I own. Universally widely supported too, so everything comes out for it first.

So far, so good with the Sony's but having had my first A7R die on me does give me pause. For my commercial work I have to have backup, and right in hand, not home in the closet. So it is a roller case for Canons, two cases for lights and grip, or a larger small sized ThinkTank to hold two Sony bodies instead of my smallest Domke, one case for lights, and leave the grip at home. Not a hard decision, really.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Chuck I gave it all up with the big Nikons. Do I still worry about at times yes but the bottom line I have not hit the wall with the Sonys. The A7 is a good backup to the A7r as it has the higher sync speed too. But I'm also looking down the road they have a A77 replacement coming most likely with some advanced A6000 features so that maybe a even better backup. But for now I don't miss my Nikons not in the slightest. But you know me I have no attachment to this stuff, I'm a dead cold fish on gear if it works than its in the bag if not its on the block. But so far I have not hit the wall and as more FE glass comes out than AF stuff gets to be less of a concern. Now having the 24-70 gives me a decent range for AF work and my ZA 85 and 135 are pretty good with the Sony 4 adapter and I even bought the Sony 3 adapter the other day as backup to the A4 its manual but a better working adapter than some of these other bolt ons. So right now I have 2 FE lenses and 2 ZA lenses so I'm covered with AF pretty well and the good news the ZA lenses are great manual focus lenses. So feeling pretty secure right now. But I know your feelings about hitting the wall. I took the leap over and so I'm okay. Its a tough call for sure.

 

[Godfrey]

The price drops are even more incentive. The only thing holding me back is a wife with a nasty big rolling pin, a wicked bass guitar, and firm "guidance" to please sell off the older gear to pay for it first ...

No wife here, and a partner who couldn't care less as long as I pay my share of rent and other expenses, but a good friend once looked in my equipment closet and said, "I don't know whether you just have way too much discretionary income ... or way too little discretion." I'm pretty sure it's the latter. =8^0

G

 

[iiiNelson]

The price drops are even more incentive. The only thing holding me back is a wife with a nasty big rolling pin, a wicked bass guitar, and firm "guidance" to please sell off the older gear to pay for it first She never says no, but she is always more prudent with money than I am. :ROTFL:

I don't have an M any longer, so that old "rangefinder in my blood" thing has already wained for me. Good thing too, as that price tag would be sure to raise more than an eyebrow. The X-E1 & GH3 for me duplicate what the Sony also does, so no great hesitation letting go of them.

The tough one for me is giving up the 5D III, as it is my security blanket, for lack of a better description. It is big and heavy, uses big and heavy lenses, and takes quite a lot of ancillary gear to fully rig out. Gives you a big and HEAVY rig in the end, but a rig I know I can get the shots with. It also has by far the best autofocus system and camera controls of all the cameras I own. Universally widely supported too, so everything comes out for it first.

So far, so good with the Sony's but having had my first A7R die on me does give me pause. For my commercial work I have to have backup, and right in hand, not home in the closet. So it is a roller case for Canons, two cases for lights and grip, or a larger small sized ThinkTank to hold two Sony bodies instead of my smallest Domke, one case for lights, and leave the grip at home. Not a hard decision, really.

Agreed and there are some really good deals that made me wish I had the patience. I've debated about getting another A7 though and I do have this NEX-5 that really doesn't get used but there are more pressing purchases. Then there's the rumor of new FE bodies by the end of the year.

 

[Chuck Jones]

Chuck I gave it all up with the big Nikons. Do I still worry about at times yes but the bottom line I have not hit the wall with the Sonys. The A7 is a good backup to the A7r as it has the higher sync speed too. But I'm also looking down the road they have a A77 replacement coming most likely with some advanced A6000 features so that maybe a even better backup. But for now I don't miss my Nikons not in the slightest. But you know me I have no attachment to this stuff, I'm a dead cold fish on gear if it works than its in the bag if not its on the block. But so far I have not hit the wall and as more FE glass comes out than AF stuff gets to be less of a concern. Now having the 24-70 gives me a decent range for AF work and my ZA 85 and 135 are pretty good with the Sony 4 adapter and I even bought the Sony 3 adapter the other day as backup to the A4 its manual but a better working adapter than some of these other bolt ons. So right now I have 2 FE lenses and 2 ZA lenses so I'm covered with AF pretty well and the good news the ZA lenses are great manual focus lenses. So feeling pretty secure right now. But I know your feelings about hitting the wall. I took the leap over and so I'm okay. Its a tough call for sure.

Knowing you for as long as I have there is little doubt in my mind that you still have a secret P30+ mounted to an old Alpa hidden under the old folded shirts in the bottom of your closet. Just forgot you hid it there from YOUR wife! :ROTFL:

Seriously, I hear you, and thanks for sharing this. Means a lot knowing that you too count on the gear to pay the mortgage. I had that 135mm Zeiss f/1.8 myself and sold it with my A77. It is a tank, but a wonderful fine lens I may try to find again some day. I am heading back to "Old" Mexico for Easter Week, so want to get my gear stuff sorted before then. That is one magic week, one I plan this year to heavily cover with Sonys.

We should plan something down there again together. Been too may years since our last Mexican adventure dude! :thumbup:

 

[Chuck Jones]

No wife here, and a partner who couldn't care less as long as I pay my share of rent and other expenses, but a good friend once looked in my equipment closet and said, "I don't know whether you just have way too much discretionary income ... or way too little discretion." I'm pretty sure it's the latter. =8^0

G

"Every man has a certain sphere of discretion which he has a right to expect shall not be infringed by his neighbours. This right flows from the very nature of man."

William Godwin

:facesmack:

 

[nostatic]

VERY close to making this exact same decision & for the same reasons. Great minds think alike, or is it just misery loving company?

Well, I picked up an A7 with the $300 credit deal, and after a night of contemplation, I put the A7r up for sale. For what I do I can live without the 36mp, and just prefer the A7 handling.

I'm a bit more knee-jerk than Jono. By the time he decides, I'll have gone through three other systems

 

[Chuck Jones]

Agreed and there are some really good deals that made me wish I had the patience. I've debated about getting another A7 though and I do have this NEX-5 that really doesn't get used but there are more pressing purchases. Then there's the rumor of new FE bodies by the end of the year.

Like yourself, we too have an old NEX-5 Suzanne uses. I am thinking it is high time to upgrade her to an A7 as well. I have started playing with three camera view productions, and frankly am getting sick of trying to grade-match footage from different cameras.

Nostatic brought up the video, so a few words on what I am seeing with it.
Intercutting the stills for a client coming from different cameras isn't too much of a problem, but video is a whole different story. Even with the same codec. The Sony is the ONLY one I own that I can get Video that matches color with the stills. Even using RAW, difficult on most brands finding a pleasing match for tying in the video with the stills for hybrid productions. These are small budget video "training wheels" shoots I am doing now, so no room for retouching to begin with. I think there will eventually be a business model from this, but to be honest as of now I haven't made much money from it, mostly just testing. Best I have time for is one quick grade, and into the edit hopper....

One very pleasant surprise with the Sony A7R was the excellent built-in audio pre-amps and decent microphones. With some post processing applied to the audio track, these can be surprisingly good. Sony knows how to build excellent microphones, and for a long time. Here is a video clip from my wife Suzanne's performance last month. Very minor post work on the video, more post work on the audio track :

https://vimeo.com/86800138

The first nine minutes are using just the internal Sony mic system, as my battery went dead on the RODE VideoMic Pro I use. I waited until the third song to change the battery, as I knew I would miss a minute or so of the action doing it. I re-started the camera in the middle of Barracuda so it is easy to hear the difference. Both of these tracks have been audio post processed to bring out as much as possible.

Honestly, to my ears I am not sure that in these circumstances getting the extra "ambient" surround wasn't a better accidental choice. While the RODE does isolate the singer better, cutting so much of the crowd takes something away from the natural live performance feel for me. I would love to hear others observations and preferences about this. Which one sounds more natural to you?

I see the combo of video, audio, and stills as my own way forward. So my camera choices will be heavily weighted towards the best overall balance of features and functions that meet my needs. Right now, that is the Sony A7R by a mile in the mirrorless category, with the GH3 a distant second. Overall, the Sony gets the edge over my 5DIII due to weight, size, and dynamic range, but still a great camera system built like a tank.

I'm looking foreword to my first three camera Sony A7/A7R edit.

 

[Chuck Jones]

Well, I picked up an A7 with the $300 credit deal, and after a night of contemplation, I put the A7r up for sale. For what I do I can live without the 36mp, and just prefer the A7 handling.

I'm a bit more knee-jerk than Jono. By the time he decides, I'll have gone through three other systems

Looks like Samys got another shipment? Now I am in trouble!

 

[nostatic]

One very pleasant surprise with the Sony A7R was the excellent built-in audio pre-amps and decent microphones. With some post processing applied to the audio track, these can be surprisingly good. Sony knows how to build excellent microphones, and for a long time. Here is a video clip from my wife Suzanne's performance last month. Very minor post work on the video, more post work on the audio track :

https://vimeo.com/86800138

The first nine minutes are using just the internal Sony mic system, as my battery went dead on the RODE VideoMic Pro I use. I waited until the third song to change the battery, as I knew I would miss a minute or so of the action doing it. I re-started the camera in the middle of Barracuda so it is easy to hear the difference. Both of these tracks have been audio post processed to bring out as much as possible.

Honestly, to my ears I am not sure that in these circumstances getting the extra "ambient" surround wasn't a better accidental choice. While the RODE does isolate the singer better, cutting so much of the crowd takes something away from the natural live performance feel for me. I would love to hear others observations and preferences about this. Which one sounds more natural to you?

Cool band! What I have done in the past is mix a bit of the camera sound with the recorded. If I'm trying to get a good live sound mix I use a Zoom H6 with a direct feed from the board (vocals and sax) and one from my bass, along with the xy mics (recorder up on stage). That will give me a pretty clean 4 channel mix to work from. The camera will be out in the crowd so it'll get some crowd noise. I end up using the audio on the camera video (built-in mics) as reference for post anyway. Sometimes adding a bit of that to the mix helps give a bit more live "edge", while still getting the cleaner mix from the recorder.

The vid I posted was just A7, nothing else. I have a 2-track recording from the stage but vocals are low since I didn't take a board feed. I'll likely blend the two when I cut the video later today, and maybe lightly grade the footage. I'm not that knowledgeable in that area - just minor tweaks in FCP-X but frankly it looks fine to me out of the camera. The stills are all 12800, so we're talking low light.

Here is a still - 12800, 1/20, 70mm @ f4. OSS doing it's job...

 

[johnnygoesdigital]

The A7 is going to be swapped for another - I just love the size! I really think for 35mm FF the sweet spot is 24MP. From my experience most lenses today and even earlier glass are much better resolved on 24MP, but newer designs are certainly looking good.

 

[ptomsu]

@ Jono

do you already have a decision for keeping which cameras?

Just interested in where you are with your findings,

best

Peter

 

[jonoslack]

Well, I picked up an A7 with the $300 credit deal, and after a night of contemplation, I put the A7r up for sale. For what I do I can live without the 36mp, and just prefer the A7 handling.

I'm a bit more knee-jerk than Jono. By the time he decides, I'll have gone through three other systems

HI Todd
I'm amazed that anyone thinks they're more 'knee jerk' than me . . . but the truth is I haven't made a decision yet.

@ Jono

do you already have a decision for keeping which cameras?

Just interested in where you are with your findings,

best

Peter

HI Peter
I've just been skiing in Italy for a week, and I left all three of them behind - so it was M (mostly with a 28). tomorrow it's back to work, and I'll start reconsidering the situation. . . . . . . I think I know where I'm going (well, let's face it, Todd is always right), but I'm not quite there yet!

All the best

 

[harmsr]

I'm curious to know what you decide Jono.

I finally made my decision. Bye Bye Sony. Even though the files are great, I just could not get along with the ergonomics and menu. Sometimes you just enjoy using something and other times its just a tool.

My Nikon system is a tool, but never fails me when needed.

My M240 & RX1r are my favorites for personal stuff and believe it or not, I've been very successful using them for concert photography or backstage stuff. I'm at the stage or on it, so a 50/.95 is basically glued to the M240 and the RX1r works great with the 35/2.0.

The Fuji has endeared itself to my heart. I love the glass, the ergonomics, menus, etc... It is something that makes me feel confident and I enjoy the time shooting. The Sony A7/A7r just never got there with me. Since the Sony could not replace the Nikon gear for what I shot, only one system that felt like a "tool" stayed.