Sony's (lack of?) lens quality control

[ZoranC]

Certainly

It wasn't a Nikon rep - it was the Nikon specialist in KP pro, and I'd been dealing with him for years . . . . . and he had no possible reason to lie!

Just saying

Thanks for the clarification Did it ever cross your mind you could have been only one that complained about issue because others might have been oblivious to it, having one without realizing it is there?

 

[BackToSlr]

N,

#1 It is not a rant, it's a discussion, if I was actually ranting it would be very obvious, trust me.

#2 I am glad to hear you are familiar with statistics, thus you should know why this is not a sample set of 5. You can also consider following: What is there to assure us sample set it not much bigger but we just didn't hear about it? What makes you confident that we didn't hear about it because owners do know how to test for it, did test it, and it did pass the test? Could it be that people are having them without being aware there is an issue? Wouldn't be the first time.

ZoranC,

It is not a sample set of 5, but a sample set of 5 complainers, even more restricted .
I think i did not get the point across correctly. If there are opinions expressed online (social media etc.) a significant majority of them are negative, so it is traditionally (social media marketing) accepted that if there are negative opinions, then most of them will be from a small set of complainers. The companies typically compute the problem spread by looking at the amount of lenses sold to complaints.
This anecdotal set of 5, that you keep referring is not only skewed, but it is also unverified that it wasn't the same lens (no serial #s, etc.) It is also an insignificant sample size. If 5 was a reasonable size then quality is the least of Sony's problems ...

Cheers,

N

 

[jonoslack]

Thanks for the clarification Did it ever cross your mind you could have been only one that complained about issue because others might have been oblivious to it, having one without realizing it is there?

Of Course - I'm certain that was the case - which was my whole point - if lens manufacturers can get away with selling lenses with widely varying quality, then they'll do just that (much more expensive to make them all perfectly). Reading Tim Ashley's experience with the Nikon 24-120 f4 zoom, they clearly still can get away with it.

I wasn't condoning it (or condemning it) - until users all become much more critical things will stay this way - and if users do get critical then prices will go up (a lot).

 

[ZoranC]

ZoranC,

It is not a sample set of 5, but a sample set of 5 complainers, even more restricted

I wouldn't think of it a sample set of 5 complainers, I would think as a 5 people that obviously did bother to test their lens. If you have a tumor in your body but are not aware of it because you didn't check for it / because symptoms are not obvious to you (yet) does it mean you are healthy?

 

[Jeff Kott]

Zoran,
Maybe people are happy with their lenses don't post.

FYI, I've purchased the Sony 35/1.8, 50/1.8 and FE 55, tested them all for decentering and none of them showed any signs of a problem.

Interestingly, I was looking through a Fuji thread and one of the early people to get their new 56/1.2 had to return the lens because of obvious decentering. There's a sample set of one.

 

[ZoranC]

Zoran,
Maybe people are happy with their lenses don't post.

Jeff, when looking at technical things one has to separate his thinking from emotional arguments. Question in such case is not how many people are happy with some lens, question is what percentage of lens would pass certain tests. Quite a few people were very happy with their Toyotas etc (insert name of any brand that had same problem) not "posting" completely unaware there is an underlying issue that can, and did, result in accidents/injuries/deaths. Does that only "complainers" were "posting" and those happy with their cars did not mean there was no issue whatsoever and that it wasn't widespread enough?

 

[Jeff Kott]

Jeff, when looking at technical things one has to separate his thinking from emotional arguments. Question in such case is not how many people are happy with some lens, question is what percentage of lens would pass certain tests.

I guess I shouldn't have said "happy." What I meant is that people who are discerning probably don't post when they get a lens, test it and it is satisfactory. For example, I did several tests of my new FE 55 on my A7r and I'm satisfied that it is not decentered in any way that will have a material impact on my images. I didn't feel like I needed to post "hey, I just got a new FE 55 and it's not decentered."

 

[BackToSlr]

I wouldn't think of it a sample set of 5 complainers, I would think as a 5 people that obviously did bother to test their lens. If you have a tumor in your body but are not aware of it because you didn't check for it / because symptoms are not obvious to you (yet) does it mean you are healthy?

LOL, so you are surmising that there is a quality problem and all unreported lenses are untested and therefore faulty?

Unfortunately statistics don't work like that. Public relations can work like that, but that has nothing to do with the quality itself.

To add to that, my experience with Sony has been solid, 4 cameras, and 6 lenses

N

 

[ZoranC]

I guess I shouldn't have said "happy." What I meant is that people who are discerning probably don't post when they get a lens, test it and it is satisfactory. For example, I did several tests of my new FE 55 on my A7r and I'm satisfied that it is not decentered in any way that will have a material impact on my images. I didn't feel like I needed to post "hey, I just got a new FE 55 and it's not decentered."

Thanks for clarification, now I understand your point and it does make sense to a point. In cases of "happy" customers clinger can be on is amont of decentering some copy is exhibiting acceptable to that particular customer. If it is that doesn't mean that copy is not decentered nor it means amount of decentering on that copy would be acceptable to a more discerning customer.

 

[ZoranC]

LOL, so you are surmising that there is a quality problem and all unreported lenses are untested and therefore faulty?

Unfortunately statistics don't work like that.

I am not surmising anything. From all I know statistics are neither optimist nor pesimist. Just like you say I can't be pesimist and say all unreported lenses are untested and thus faulty I can say that by same token you can't say that all unreported lenses would pass test. It goes both ways until something is proven as fact. In the meantime 2 out of 3 random lenses for 5 random customers sure isn't huge sample but it sure doesn't support optimism.

To add to that, my experience with Sony has been solid, 4 cameras, and 6 lenses

I am glad to hear you are one of people that had positive experience. To quote you: Does that provide statistically big enough sample?

 

[BackToSlr]

I am glad to hear you are one of people that had positive experience. To quote you: Does that provide statistically big enough sample?

Me: If I look at the sample size you presented (5) then 1 sample is not very different (it is the same order of magnitude). I can say that 100% of samples are good, that was kind of the point i was trying to make with anecdotal sampling.


Anyway this discussion has run its course, hope that you find a better sample.


Good luck!

N

 

[ZoranC]

I can say that 100% of samples are good, that was kind of the point i was trying to make with anecdotal sampling.

... of course, if you say 100% of samples are good based on your single sample somebody might ask you to illustrate what your definition of "good" is.

Anyway this discussion has run its course, hope that you find a better sample. Good luck!

Thanks for the wishes but I think I have indicated in my original post that I have given up looking for a copy of 35/2.8 that I would consider good. Plus this thread was not about my copy, it was about sharing the experience of others.

 

[Viramati]

Well after a day out shooting yesterday I can say I am seeing a marked improvement in my 2nd copy of the FE24-70

 

[ZoranC]

Well after a day out shooting yesterday I can say I am seeing a marked improvement in my 2nd copy of the FE24-70

David, that's good Do you feel it is the way it's supposed to be across the zoom and aperture range or it is "better than previous copy but still not as it should be"?

 

[Chuck Jones]

Just for speculations sake, lets say there was a service available to test your lenses. What would it be worth to you to get your lens mounted on an optical bench, and see a printout of how your lens compared to the data for reference lenses on file? This service would also, of course, certify your lens was fine if that is how it tested out.

Is this a service you would use? I would. Wondering now how much I would be willing to pay for the piece of mind, if nothing else?

 

[NomadMark]

I have had numerous warranty issues with all of my Sony cameras. Never had an issue with a lens, and I am pretty anal.

In my experience I would say having bought 3 cameras, with 2 that had issues right out of the factory, and one that developed over a span of time that was also in inherent defect, that Sony QC may not be up to spec on camera bodies either.

That is just my opinion, from my own experience of course. YMMV.

 

[iiiNelson]

I have had numerous warranty issues with all of my Sony cameras. Never had an issue with a lens, and I am pretty anal.

In my experience I would say having bought 3 cameras, with 2 that had issues right out of the factory, and one that developed over a span of time that was also in inherent defect, that Sony QC may not be up to spec on camera bodies either.

That is just my opinion, from my own experience of course. YMMV.

I think everyone has some defects and early adopters tend to have more issues than those who by after product line maturation. The only Sony product I had issues with was my first Playstation 2 and a TV. They asked that I ship my PS2 with a $70 certified check or money order for labor to perform the diagnosis as it was more than likely a long wait for a replacement in store. Needless to say I returned it to the store for a refund. I took the same action for the TV - no questions asked from either.

My cousin had issues with his first Canon 7D (he was an early adopter) and they replaced it. He still uses it today. I know some people that had issues with their Nikon bodies as well. The D600 would probably be the most notorious culprit seeing how Nikon dropped the model and released a replacement after originally denying the problem. Jonoslack notoriously had problems with Pentax lenses going through several copies of certain models sometimes never coming up with a functioning copy. Many people have trouble with Sigma's and Tamron's... Some don't.

So the point is everyone can have problems from any manufacturer. Doesn't necessarily call for pitchforks and torches though as the regional HQ.

 

[stephengilbert]

Add to the last post the internet effect: these aren't random polls of users, but forums where the most aggrieved (or most easily aggrieved) are more likely to post their experiences and opinions.

 

[iiiNelson]

Add to the last post the internet effect: these aren't random polls of users, but forums where the most aggrieved (or most easily aggrieved) are more likely to post their experiences and opinions.

True and that passion comes with the nature of being a enthusiast of really anything. I get it and I admit I'd be 100% angry if I didn't get a satisfactory response from the manufacturer or the retailer. Otherwise it's just a minor annoyance for me but photography is only one of my hobbies.

I don't think most successful professionals stake their professional reputation on a piece of new gear though either.

One thing is always true in every professional circuit I've been in - you're only as good as the last job you did.

 

[Viramati]

David, that's good Do you feel it is the way it's supposed to be across the zoom and aperture range or it is "better than previous copy but still not as it should be"?

I am seeing a marked improvement in the the mid range of the zoom, my first copy seemed to be soft on the left hand side at around 35mm. I think it is also better on the edges at 24mm stopped down. Anyway i am happy with it as a zoom but primes will always be my weapon of choice for critical work