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DXO D810

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Believe it or not I love my Sony A6000 as for me its a total kick to shoot. The IQ is really really good too. The days of chasing ultimate image quality have been over for awhile now for me at least. Ever since I sold my Phase gear than I just had to accept what I can get out of 35mm digital again. Im fine with that too. These newer cams are a million times better than when I entered digital back in 1992 I think it was.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I have to say I'm loving the look of my older lenses towards this goal, the A7r with choice legacy lenses costing peanuts is a great way to kick back, relax and think about the result not the way you got there.
This ^^^ :thumbs:

It is liberating isn't it, to shoot for the image instead of chasing pixel perfection?
 

turtle

New member
The reality is that many photographers spend more time trying to inject imperfection into their images than perfection. That says it all to me.

I made the decision as Guy: if I cannot produce a cracking image at 36MP (aside from some crazy special application), then I need to remind myself what makes an image great. I don't need more and I don't want more. In many cases I am enjoying my ability to produce noise and lose resolution with my M43 camera at high ISO.

Technical perfection is a red herring, but great utility is another matter. That really does result in better images.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Here is the bottom line. Anyone can shoot the same or better gear than me and as a Pro what's separates me and having a steak dinner instead of bread and butter sandwich is just flat out talent. If I can't shoot better than what my clients can buy and shoot than I'm in deep do-do. Gear only does one thing and sure its great to have the best and I try hard to have it but end of the day it's just a tool. It's what between your ears that counts. It's not any more complex than that.
 

Arne Hvaring

Well-known member
So I take it none of your guys will take any interest at all in the 50+ Mpx cameras that will be introduced shortly...:D
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
So I take it none of your guys will take any interest at all in the 50+ Mpx cameras that will be introduced shortly...:D
Hey we are still pigs. Lol

Seriously though there times when having a 50mpx cam would be extremely useful. I would still love to have a tech cam with a back. Now it's creative cheating without it.
 

ZoranC

New member
So I take it none of your guys will take any interest at all in the 50+ Mpx cameras that will be introduced shortly...:D
I'm sure there will be a certain amount of people that would benefit from such MP increase (assuming glass can keep up). Better question is how many how often.

Me? Unless something suddenly changes for me I will absolutely have no benefit from it. Even 36MP of my A7R are quite often much more than I need. Out of photos I have taken recently one that stood out by a mile above all others in compliments it got from those that have seen it has been taken with 12MP camera. My interest in D810 is not because of megapixels, it is due to features / functions, like ISO 64.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
The glass can't and won't keep up. In fact, you've just about already got what you're gonna get. It's why we've been stalled at 36MP for over two years now.
 

ZoranC

New member
The glass can't and won't keep up. In fact, you've just about already got what you're gonna get. It's why we've been stalled at 36MP for over two years now.
Thank you for the clarification, I wasn't sure were you agreeing or disagreeing, "language used" was leaving it open to (mis)interpretation :)

Yeah, I feel it's the glass that will be in the way as I feel that's what already happened when 36 MP bodies started shipping. One can have as many HP as they want in the engine but if the tires can't keep up ...
 

turtle

New member
I'm still trying to get a solid line up of lenses that can realise 36 MP properly, so no, 50MP is of little interest to me. I would once have considered a Canon DSLR with massive MP count if the DR was better than the 5D III however, I now have the A7R so the need is gone.

Utility is where the big gains will be with the A7-A8-A9 series. The 35 Sonnar FE cannot realise 36MP at the edges so what is the point or more? I can see these super MP cameras requiring lenses the size of the Otus, in which case you might as well shoot MF anyway!
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
Tim,

Thanks very much for your thoughtful comment. It's very useful.
The ISO 64 is very attractive for landscape photography. Is it that good? Do you have files comparing between the ISO 64 and higher ISO? How is it compared to a file from medium-format digital (SLR not tech cam).
Me too! I've never liked the D800E. It looks like there are some good reasons to upgrade to the 810.

Pramote


Thanks for the 'he isn't trolling' comments people. Clearly I'm not - and I have no 'status' here other than as a long term participant. I'm not a moderator, which is why I invited anyone who is to remove this if they saw fit.

Moving on. Pramote, honestly, there are few real reasons to move to a D810. Focus is better, in both accuracy, no 'left side' problem and the addition of the Group mode, which I have yet to try but people do say it is great. Shutter is a lot nicer and there is less of a shutter shock problem, plus the EFC mode in LV totally gets rid of the issue. People also commonly report no need for AFFT, which is my experience also but I don't have many AF lenses... The camera overall feels nicer.. And the ISO 64 files are even cleaner though there may be a slight penalty at higher ISO; I haven't done a side by side because I have no D800 now. The new LV is really really good and makes a big difference.

Overall it's likely to be a usability trade, not an IQ one, but those ISO 64 files sure are clean and the low ISO DR seems hard to exceed.. my best indication is that now, if I am close to home or in the studio I use the D810 rather than the A7r, especially with longer lenses and if I have a lens that fits the Nikon which is at least as good as that I would use on the Sony, but for anything under 70mm and assuming the light is reasonably good, I will use the Sony if I am straying further from base because it is still a nicer package to carry and the differences are for many use cases not relevant.

I never loved my D800e. I said so many times. It was objectively a very very fine camera but I never loved it. This one somehow feels different and I am really enjoying it. Hard to pin down why, but others have said the same... however, when Sony responds with an AXX variant that has a better shutter and better tracking focus I will probably finally consolidate in that system for good. Those are the last pieces missing from the Sony lineup that matter to me and I prefer the breadth of lens options in Sony.

ps Pramote - for sure the D800 is generally more than enough to make good pictures, especially in the hands of someone such as yourself, but the D810 broadens the 'shooting envelope' in all but stupidly high ISO situations and will therefor mean, everything being equal, more opportunities for good pictures in the hands of an experienced user.
 

Arne Hvaring

Well-known member
The glass can't and won't keep up. In fact, you've just about already got what you're gonna get. It's why we've been stalled at 36MP for over two years now.
I don't think so. At least the next generation (say 56 mpx or thereabout) will have roughly the same pixeldensity as the current 24 mpx generation APSc cameras, and good glass has no problems with that. What I think we will see, however, is a more visible falloff near the edges at the optimum f-stops. This is masked today because the lenses outresolve the current 36 mpx sensors in the center of the image.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Absolutely and unfortunately there are a lot of Pros with very little talent but very good marketing skills.
........ And they do much much better than those with very poor marketing skills and lots of talent. Same in almost everything I'd say.
 

anGy

Member
So megapixels race is over, at least the interest of most about it is vanishing.
Lenses can't keep up for more resolution. How they draw is far more interesting.
Sensors have enough DR since years and high iso performance way overrated, or let's say not often used by IQ lovers.
Maybe time to start searching for a good 2nd hand Leica S2 :D
What ? not the same budget ? okay maybe, but not that far neither. 2x the price of a D810 for an S2 and S lenses meeting the price of an Otus.
Alright it's second hand crap, but with autofocus, and central shutter if you'd like :watch:
 

turtle

New member
I would not say the megapixels race is over at all. However, for photographers with any sense it might be ;)

The mad rush towards the A7R, to the relative exclusion of the A7, says it all. Even for people who admit to 'posting on the web and printing to A3'. Sense has nothing to do with it and artistry even less. It has always been this way, with a treadmill inviting us to keep running or stop at our peril. We can, however, decide not to run at all. This will give more time for making pictures.

I look at my B&W film work and can see that the A7R smashes even the 6x7 film work in terms of detail, perceived or otherwise. I then look at 35mm TriX work and wonder if there is even 5MP in the frame. I doubt it in many cases. Anyway, it does not seem to stop people enjoying and buying the prints. This is the goal, for me at least. How do I better produce prints that I want to look at, that other people want to look at and live with? It is now all about utility and 'realising the image'. The A7 and A7R were not revolutionary (and I think they were just that) because they produced a better DxO score than anything else, but because they combined such high performance with an absurdly small package. It was really all about utility and this is where the D810 has sharpened up its act. These changes will be responsible for far more impressive images that tiny increases in DR or low ISO noise. Being able to actually see the image at night using live view has to help, right? :D
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I don't think so. At least the next generation (say 56 mpx or thereabout) will have roughly the same pixeldensity as the current 24 mpx generation APSc cameras, and good glass has no problems with that. What I think we will see, however, is a more visible falloff near the edges at the optimum f-stops. This is masked today because the lenses outresolve the current 36 mpx sensors in the center of the image.
First off, the larger the IC, the tougher it is to get a lens to resolve. 54MP on a 24x36 sensor has 4um senuls and is going to mean lenses need to resolve 125LP/mm to have crisp edges rendered by them -- how many FF lenses do you know that can accomplish that now? Please give me the links to their MTF charts.

Second, what is the optimum aperture for such a lens? We're already seeing diffraction limitations after f5.6 on 36MP cams, so now it's going to be about f3.5 (have not done the math other than quickly in my head, so in all likelihood f4 will remain useful, albeit already suffering from diffraction limits and therefore said lens will not resolve to sensor capability at or after f4). How useful is an f3.5 limitation for maximum resolution performance in your full-frame photography?

Not saying it won't happen, it most certainly will. And people will flock to it because they have to own the latest and greatest. And then our forum will start buzzing with all the new seen optical issues with sensor alignment, lens performance issues, accurate focus issues, diffraction, AA filter effects, noise, etc... :facesmack:
 
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