My love/hate relationship with the A7s

[Arif]

Had the chance to photograph two Geishas (Maiko/Geiko) last week in Kyoto (one very expensive evening). Loved the fact that I could take ISO 16000 pictures and the silent shutter but hated the banding that resulted with the mixed lighting.

Camera White Balance set to Tungsten for all, only difference was that an additional overhead fluorescent light was turned on for the two pictures with the banding so am wondering if others have noticed something similar in their shots.


Thank you for looking,
Arif

www.arifiqball.com

 

[Cindy Flood]

Are you sure that what you are seeing is not the pulse of the florescent lights? I wouldn't blame the camera without more testing.

 

[MikeEvangelist]

That's pretty clearly interference between the frequency of the fluorescent lights and the electronic shutter. Using a different shutter speed would probably resolve it.

 

[Arif]

Are you sure that what you are seeing is not the pulse of the florescent lights? I wouldn't blame the camera without more testing.

Thank you, was not sure if the pulse would be visible in both Horizontal and Vertical format.

 

[Arif]

That's pretty clearly interference between the frequency of the fluorescent lights and the electronic shutter. Using a different shutter speed would probably resolve it.

Thank you, this was also present at 1/200 so am confused.

 

[MikeEvangelist]

Thank you, this was also present at 1/200 so am confused.

Needs to be a slower speed (so the exposure captures at least one complete 'cycle' of the lights.) If you're in the 50 Hertz part of Japan, that might mean using 1/30th second.

If you ever tried photographing an old CRT television, it's a similar thing.

 

[Bob Parsons]

A related problem is that some discharge lamps appear to change color throughout their 100 or 120Hz brightness cycle. This is because the light output of individual components in a mix of phosphors have different decay rates, red/orange being the longest and blue/violet the shortest. So not only do you have light and dark bands but the band color varies across its width. Luminaries with solid state high frequency ballasts don't suffer from these effects nearly as much.

Bob.

 

[jfirneno]

Had the chance to photograph two Geishas (Maiko/Geiko) last week in Kyoto (one very expensive evening). Loved the fact that I could take ISO 16000 pictures and the silent shutter but hated the banding that resulted with the mixed lighting.

Camera White Balance set to Tungsten for all, only difference was that an additional overhead fluorescent light was turned on for the two pictures with the banding so am wondering if others have noticed something similar in their shots.


Thank you for looking,
Arif

www.arifiqball.com

Arif:


I read about a similar problem here:

Field Test: Sony A7S for Still Photographers - Part 5

I may be reading this wrong but it seems to be a combination of the speed of the fully electronic shutter and the fluorescent light characteristics. Can you try it without the silent shutter to see if that allows you to change the exposure length outside of the fluorescent light cycle time?

Regards,
John

 

[G43]

Arif

I just ask. Are these JPEGs?

I can repeat situations of banding i both fluorescent and tungsten light using silent mode. But it doesn't show in RAW.

 

[Arif]

Needs to be a slower speed (so the exposure captures at least one complete 'cycle' of the lights.) If you're in the 50 Hertz part of Japan, that might mean using 1/30th second.

If you ever tried photographing an old CRT television, it's a similar thing.

Thank you Mike. Makes sense as to why I am only getting with the A7s and not the D4. I photograph this subject a lot so 1/30 will not work for me since they are dancing.

 

[Arif]

Arif:


I read about a similar problem here:

Field Test: Sony A7S for Still Photographers - Part 5

I may be reading this wrong but it seems to be a combination of the speed of the fully electronic shutter and the fluorescent light characteristics. Can you try it without the silent shutter to see if that allows you to change the exposure length outside of the fluorescent light cycle time?

Regards,
John

Thank you very much John for the link. Will try as suggested although it will take away the perfect use of this camera for this subject or for stage photography.

 

[Arif]

Arif

I just ask. Are these JPEGs?

I can repeat situations of banding i both fluorescent and tungsten light using silent mode. But it doesn't show in RAW.

Thank you! I do see these in Raw as well.

 

[CharlesK]

I have the same problems shooting with the A7r and M240 under certain types fluorescent lighting. As suggested it is a sync issue with the type of fluorescent lighting and shutter speed. I just re adjust the shutter speed to a slower speed such as 1/30 sec. Even then there may be a gradient of across the image, that is marginally noticeable.

When I first received my M240, I took a series of test shots in the office under daylight fluorescent lights 60 Hz in Australia, I was very concerned with this banding, thinking that there was an issue!! I thought about it for a while and just reduced the shutter speed, and the issue was reduced dramatically.

 

[Ben Rubinstein]

It's a well known problem with flourescent lighting. You need to be under the cycle time of the lights. Either 1/50 or 1/60 depending on the frequency. Happened all the time with my Canons when I was shooting weddings. Converting to B&W is pretty much the only cure.

 

[kit laughlin]

And I have to ask: why did you turn on the fluoros? In this situation, I would use one of those tiny LED daylight balanced on-camera lights, gelled to match the tungsten. For me the whole point of the A7s is to render supplemental lighting unnecessary, but if the tungsten in your setup was an overhead light, the ion-camera light will help eye socket and nose shadows to an extent.

Or were the fluoros added by a helpful on-looker? In any case the colour balance of fluoros, heavily biased to green-blue, do not help a tungsten-lit scene, in my experience. Using tungsten-only lighting and pushing the ISO for a SS fast enough to stop the dancing would seem to be the better approach.

 

[Arif]

And I have to ask: why did you turn on the fluoros? In this situation, I would use one of those tiny LED daylight balanced on-camera lights, gelled to match the tungsten. For me the whole point of the A7s is to render supplemental lighting unnecessary, but if the tungsten in your setup was an overhead light, the ion-camera light will help eye socket and nose shadows to an extent.

Or were the fluoros added by a helpful on-looker? In any case the colour balance of fluoros, heavily biased to green-blue, do not help a tungsten-lit scene, in my experience. Using tungsten-only lighting and pushing the ISO for a SS fast enough to stop the dancing would seem to be the better approach.

Thank you, I had no choice since the tea house owner turned the fluoro lights on. I will try the gelled on camera lights next time. Having used the D4 for a long time, I did not think about the issues with the Fluoro.

Thank you for all the help!

 

[CharlesK]

Thank you, I had no choice since the tea house owner turned the fluoro lights on. I will try the gelled on camera lights next time. Having used the D4 for a long time, I did not think about the issues with the Fluoro.

Thank you for all the help!

Most of street shots late at night in Asia will be heavily influenced by different types of fluorescent lights. This is adds a layer of complexity, but I have in the past just kept to 1/25 to 1/45 sec with a 50mm lens, as any lighting is a bonus. The difficulty is maintaining still hands/body when you are rushed to get the shot!

 

[Arif]

Most of street shots late at night in Asia will be heavily influenced by different types of fluorescent lights. This is adds a layer of complexity, but I have in the past just kept to 1/25 to 1/45 sec with a 50mm lens, as any lighting is a bonus. The difficulty is maintaining still hands/body when you are rushed to get the shot!

Thank you! It is amazing that now one can shoot all these high ISO and still get very usable images. Opens a whole different world of creativity.

 

[G43]

I get less noise with the S at 6400 than my Oly EM1 at 200! Fantastic.

I shoot solely in manual mode due to the camera will always set the shutter speed at 1/60 using auto iso in Aperture mode.
I prefer to secure unshaken shots with the different focals by setting the shutter speed on the safe side.
I've set the auto ISO at 100/12800. Can't accept the noise above 12800.

Silent mode is fantastic, but useless at moving objects.

 

[G43]

This image were shot at ISO 6400 and were underexposed 2,5 stops.
I cranked the exposure up IN acr/ps by the same, reduced highlights 90% to save the red lamps. Blew up shadows by 50%. Added 3 gradients in ACR. Curves, hue and color correction, dodge and burn. Smart sharpening 100% at 0,2 pix.
All in all a brutal PP.

Still the noise is acceptable even at actual pixels.

(Forgot to convert RGB to sRGB, sorry. The colors are a bit off)

BRAVO SONY! :salute: