Zeiss FE Mount Manual Lens Rumors

[ZoranC]

Problem is you get marketing and crappy examples with every lens announcement known to man and not to mention MTF charts as well before you see anything worth salt. Unfortunately thats the industry and thats every OEM.

Yes, unfortunately that is how things are. But my comment was less about how industry does business and more on many commentators that are dragging "MTF charts" into discussions.

I am interested in the 35mm but Im at the point with glass either its just freaking outstanding or I won't buy it. Too many second place finishers.

Amen. And that is exactly why I put my credit card back into my wallet. I didn't see anything even close to outstanding in those samples.

 

[G43]

Some claims to be able to tell how a lens renders by looking at MTF curves. I am not there yet

But let's just take look at the MTF of the RX1 Biogon 35 F2 and compare it with the Loxia 35 MTF as presented by Zeiss, then the RX1 35 Biogon wipes the floor under the Loxia. Please Google gentlemen

 

[ken_vs_ryu]

Loxia 35 vs zm35


Looks very promising


diglloyd: Zeiss Loxia vs Zeiss ZM 35mm f/2 Biogon on Sony A7R

 

[G43]

If this is the case Lloyd's ZM seems made of bottoms of beer glasses.

 

[philip_pj]

First up, Guy, you should be happy with the latest rumor of a high Mp A mount:
(SR3) More tidbits about the Full Frame 45-46 megapixel (A-mount?) camera! | sonyalpharumors

We all agree this is the next move for DSLR and RX1 in Sony land.

Loxias - You have to remember these are very old designs - Planar and Biogon, and Zeiss are earning kudos for what they have done: a lot of modern niceties to bring manual focus lenses into the modern fold, with improved digitally-tuned performance, to use a bit of PR speak!

MTF has its challenges, but this site has side-by-side images of each Loxia and its predecessor ZM, both from wayback machine in Leica M days of yore:

자이스 Loxia는 ZM 대비 화질 개선이 미흡. BH포토에서는 예약 주문 진행 중 | DicaHub

fast translation: better everywhere. For corners and edges look at the lines above the bottom axis with numbers around 15 to 20. The Planar outer frame dive is no more! Its distortion is almost zero, and its image centre fine detail lines are now ultra!

Biogon (top set of graphs) is similar at f2, then *really delivers* at f5.6, esp at image centre where it is so good I want to see it against the RX1. Corners are overall better too, some astigmatism, these days well handled by design and glass matching. The final bugbear of M class lenses - severe light fall-off - is still around, being a design characteristic. Zeiss worry much less about vignetting, even in Distagons.

At Lloyd's site, *carefully focused corner sample* from the ZM shows just how bad things go when you insist on using film era huge beam angles (ray angle) in lenses, then put them on a modern digital sensor, and how well Zeiss did fixing the problem. Now we are back to where we should be - lenses being designed for cameras, not the other way around, as a fudge.

I doubt anyone will be very disappointed, after the brouhaha settles down and real shooters mount them eagerly on the a7 cameras. Good prices too, overall, for what you get. All just opinions.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I saw that, will see what that may become in the coming weeks. I'm ruling nothing out. I would actually like to see if there is a upgrade to the FE mount first. I can't use my TSE lens on a A mount.

 

[ZoranC]

I doubt anyone will be very disappointed, after the brouhaha settles down and real shooters mount them eagerly on the a7 cameras.

So anybody that doesn't "eagerly" find them all that and a bag of chips is in advance dismissively labeled as "not a real shooter"? Whatever :facesmack:

 

[jfirneno]

Ken and Philip:
Thanks for the links. Of course as everyone knows we can't count our chickens before they're hatched but just imagining having our own line up of Zeiss manual focus classic lenses makes me feel like a kid before Christmas.
Fingers crossed,
John

 

[Ario Arioldi]

If this is the case Lloyd's ZM seems made of bottoms of beer glasses.

Actually the problem is not the ZM glass but it is due to the presence of a rather thick filter on top of the sensor. From a Zeiss paper discussing the interaction between the Biogons and the digital sensor:

"If the filter is significantly thicker (compared to the ones on digital Leica's) , the contrast transfer for the image edge becomes worse for tangential structures. In the graph of the curves (MTF), this looks like the old retrofocus lenses but is caused by astigmatism rather than lateral chromatic aberration. The focus is shifted to greater distances for tangential structures by the additional path through the glass."

 

[G43]

I was merely joking a bit...

Clearly only a few 'made for film' lenses are usable for digital FF sensors. Those that does work pretty well are typically tele lenses.

 

[turtle]

There is no point in trying to determine IQ from a few awful web images, surely we all know this by now.

I hope prices fall, as looking a bit steep for fairly basic lenses at this point.

I also struggle to see how launching a 35 f2 and 50mm f2 makes sense, because although they will likely be amongst the most successful focal lengths, their market is 'total market minus those who already own Sony Zeiss FE Sonnars'. If they had launched an 18mm/21 and a 24/25, people like me with the 35 and 55 Sonnars would be all over it. I suspect the 35 and 50 were merely further along in their development, which probably began before the A7 was even launched. I'm disappointed. Where the heck are the wide angles for FE?

 

[G43]

These lenses are obviously aiming at the clientele who wish a manual focus lens with e-mount and solely designed for the 7 series. There might actually be a few that would like these lenses even they own the FE ditto focals, but AF lenses.
I could be one of them at a later moment when a more to me suitable Sony mirrorless FF camera body is out, than the 7s I just bought. That was a bit of a miss from my side.

 

[Steve P.]

I could be one of them at a later moment when a more to me suitable Sony mirrorless FF camera body is out, than the 7s I just bought. That was a bit of a miss from my side.

What was it about the A7s that caused you to decide against it? Sorry if you've explained elsewhere and I missed it.

 

[Steve P.]

There is no point in trying to determine IQ from a few awful web images, surely we all know this by now.

I hope prices fall, as looking a bit steep for fairly basic lenses at this point.

I also struggle to see how launching a 35 f2 and 50mm f2 makes sense, because although they will likely be amongst the most successful focal lengths, their market is 'total market minus those who already own Sony Zeiss FE Sonnars'. If they had launched an 18mm/21 and a 24/25, people like me with the 35 and 55 Sonnars would be all over it. I suspect the 35 and 50 were merely further along in their development, which probably began before the A7 was even launched. I'm disappointed. Where the heck are the wide angles for FE?

I agree about FE wide angles. I'm sure at least one of the five Loxias will fit the bill but who knows when? Photokina may reveal all. Could it be something as simple as Zeiss just not being able to envisage their new lens range WITHOUT 35 and 50mm focal lengths? I mean, just because it would be, well, unthinkable to them.

 

[G43]

What was it about the A7s that caused you to decide against it? Sorry if you've explained elsewhere and I missed it.

I left a short note in the Fun With A7S thread:

I have felt this moment coming. I'll have to let the 7S leave the door again.
It is really a great camera in many ways, but somewhat it turned out to be less universal for me than I first thought. So better to let it go while it's still very new.
Should anyone here be interested leave a PM.

My problem with the excellent A7S was merely I like the color palette better from my two X100 12 MP cameras and the A7S was an attempt to find a replacement for those Fujis which are wearing out.
Once I got the A7S I started to become pretty satisfied how the camera works in praxis and decided to stay tuned to Sony's future launches. The present 7 series and in particular the coming dedicated e-mount lenses is really very promising.
I am though aware of the X100 look will like not come from Sony and from Fuji either.

 

[Annna T]

I agree about FE wide angles. I'm sure at least one of the five Loxias will fit the bill but who knows when? Photokina may reveal all. Could it be something as simple as Zeiss just not being able to envisage their new lens range WITHOUT 35 and 50mm focal lengths? I mean, just because it would be, well, unthinkable to them.

A Zeiss Rep explained why they chose those two focal lengths :
it has to do with their target audience : videographers and formers users of the Leica M RF lenses doing street photography or PJ/travel photography. They believe that the videographers' preferred focal lengths are 35 and 50mm and that the street photographers prefer the 35mm focal length. At least, that is the official explanation.

May be that they have more problems designing a light and compact wide angle offering sharp corners ?

 

[Steve P.]

Part of the Zeiss heritage is a certain warmth and character in colour signature.
If they manage to sprinkle some of that fairy dust over the Loxia line you might be back sooner than you think.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I'll probably buy the 35 for sure but I was hoping for 999.00 which 1299 for it is a stretch. I would like to replace my Sigma Art 35 1.4 which is not a body cap lens. My real basic issue still comes down to the camera mounts itself. This is the hard part as staying with the A7r or jumping on a new A99II. Now have to admit before I bought the Canon 17 TSE I was leaning to the A mount. Well after I got the 17mm I painted myself into a corner as it will only work on a FE mount with adapter. Now here is the real heart of it, the 17mm TSE is the best damn lens I ever shot when it comes to a super wide only to be beaten by a Rodenstock 23 for a tech cam. Not only that the TSE is just to useful with its movements. So I have to decide once and for all which mount I want.
Having said all that I could wait maybe a year longer with the A7r and what helps me in this decision is having the A77II for speed , AF and PR type work because the A7r sucks at that kind of work but for advertising, commercial, landscape work the A7r is very good at and manual focus is actually preferred. But if Sony comes out with a killer A mount with over 36 mpx than I could be in trouble.

Now wide angles are tough to deliver to the market with quality, I feel its easy for OEMs building them for DSLR style mounts as restrictions to size and weight are more on the back burner issues to building them. This FE mount is a trouble mount because everyone wants reduced size and weight. That's hard to do and keep them fast at the same time. I honestly don't think they can do it. At least not in the more comfortable price range of under 2k. Right now Leica M lenses are trouble with wides and everyone wants that type of size and weight for there A7rs . I'm just not sure technically it can be done well given the acute angles and such. For wides folks more in the 24 and wider we might be better off adapting DSLR glass when it comes to the super wides. Now I would love for some OEM to prove me wrong.

 

[Steve P.]

But if Sony comes out with a killer A mount with over 36 mpx than I could be in trouble.

You could be in trouble.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I know. Lol

Now find me a way to convert my Canon Ef to Sony A mount. Lol