The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
Roberto & Fernanda
- Thread starter Rawfa
- Start date
Nice capture of some natural candid content, but good content has to be accompanied with good craftsmanship to do this work as a paying discipline.
A few suggestions for future consideration:
You might want to work on using manual WB to keep skin tones more natural looking and less yellow orange (like images 1-7). Once set for a given lighting temp (like at the ceremony), you usually don't need to change it for every shot because it'll be close enough to adjust in post for consistent natural color.
When shooting more than one person that are not on the same plane of focus (like the two people in #8), consider stopping down a little more to keep them equally in focus.
#11,12 and 13 is a matter of creative taste, however, it demonstrates the issues of higher ISOs in poorly lit conditions … color gets odd, noise gets intrusive, blacks get funky, contamination by foreign color, and poor lighting direction produces what is called "Raccoon Eyes" like frame #12.
Just a few suggestions from one who has done this type work for a very long time.
- Marc
A few suggestions for future consideration:
You might want to work on using manual WB to keep skin tones more natural looking and less yellow orange (like images 1-7). Once set for a given lighting temp (like at the ceremony), you usually don't need to change it for every shot because it'll be close enough to adjust in post for consistent natural color.
When shooting more than one person that are not on the same plane of focus (like the two people in #8), consider stopping down a little more to keep them equally in focus.
#11,12 and 13 is a matter of creative taste, however, it demonstrates the issues of higher ISOs in poorly lit conditions … color gets odd, noise gets intrusive, blacks get funky, contamination by foreign color, and poor lighting direction produces what is called "Raccoon Eyes" like frame #12.
Just a few suggestions from one who has done this type work for a very long time.
- Marc
Rawfa
Active member
Marc, your input is always very welcome.
The groom and the bride are extremely methodical and traditional, so I knew they would get upset if I started getting in the way of their very rehearsed wedding (they already had 2 photographer and 2 videographers working, so it I was not going to interfere and just enjoy the wedding as a guest with my wife). I went in knowing that I would had to shoot from where I was standing, that I wouldn't be able to take a bag full of gear and that I wouldn't be able to be firing flashes around...so I ended up with a very small bag that could only fit the A7 with the adapter, a 50mm and the 85mm....I would have loved to have an A7S with me!
Regarding shooting more than one person with the plane focus I knew that stopping down would allow me to keep the main subjects in focus, but without a flash I was really torn about boosting the ISO...which also was something that this wedding also allowed me to do (explore the boundaries of iso and check when a flash would be absolutely necessary).
Taking your gear to a friend's wedding is the best lesson there is, before actually moving in as a second photographer until I have the necessary experience to shoot my own weddings. But be sure I will be posting my evolution here
The groom and the bride are extremely methodical and traditional, so I knew they would get upset if I started getting in the way of their very rehearsed wedding (they already had 2 photographer and 2 videographers working, so it I was not going to interfere and just enjoy the wedding as a guest with my wife). I went in knowing that I would had to shoot from where I was standing, that I wouldn't be able to take a bag full of gear and that I wouldn't be able to be firing flashes around...so I ended up with a very small bag that could only fit the A7 with the adapter, a 50mm and the 85mm....I would have loved to have an A7S with me!
Regarding shooting more than one person with the plane focus I knew that stopping down would allow me to keep the main subjects in focus, but without a flash I was really torn about boosting the ISO...which also was something that this wedding also allowed me to do (explore the boundaries of iso and check when a flash would be absolutely necessary).
Taking your gear to a friend's wedding is the best lesson there is, before actually moving in as a second photographer until I have the necessary experience to shoot my own weddings. But be sure I will be posting my evolution here
Last edited:
Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit they were given … to share hard earned experiences that may help others avoid issues they will most certainly face as they move forward. I know you intend on doing this for pay, so I am sharing the same info I share with my assistants and second shooters, and that others shared with me when I first started out.Marc, your input is always very welcome.
The groom and the bride are extremely methodical and traditional, so I knew they would get upset if I started getting in the way of their very rehearsed wedding (they already had 2 photographer and 2 videographers working, so it I was not going to interfere and just enjoy the wedding as a guest with my wife). I went in knowing that I would had to shoot from where I was standing, that I wouldn't be able to take a bag full of gear and that I wouldn't be able to be firing flashes around...so I ended up with a very small bag that could only fit the A7 with the adapter, a 50mm and the 85mm....I would have loved to have an A7S with me!
Regarding shooting more than one person with the plane focus I knew that stopping down would allow me to keep the main subjects in focus, but without a flash I was really torn about boosting the ISO...which also was something that this wedding also allowed me to do (explore the boundaries of iso and check when a flash would be absolutely necessary).
Taking your gear to a friend's wedding is the best lesson there is, before actually moving in as a second photographer until I have the necessary experience to shoot my own weddings. But be sure I will be posting my evolution here
I understand the concept of not having the best vantage point when you are an invited guest, and it is good that you respected the pros and stayed out of their way. If I even take a camera as a guest, it is usually a Leica M with one lens (usually a 35/1.4 or a fast 50mm), and I photograph things the hired photographer may not have the time to get or may never see because they are doing the job at hand. Wherever they are, I go elsewhere to hunt humanistic "Decisive Moments" that will flesh out a wedding for a friend.
However, that is a separate issue compared to the white balance issue which I'm respectively suggesting you also master because post processing a few snaps is considerably easier than 500 or 1,000 wedding images, including at least 200+ must have photos.
White balance is a tricky subject because if you just shoot AWB in low artificial ambient light it'll often be terribly skewed to the yellow-red spectrum and produce jaundiced skin tones, or even more ghastly hues … and, in many cases, what looks to be properly exposed is actually underexposed looking when color corrected later. Shooting RAW does not allow solving all problems in post afterwards.
You have demonstrated an good eye for content, but even as a second shooter, you'll be expected to do a "reasonable" job of craftsmanship. Part of the whole wedding photography gestalt is some level of consistency.
Much of the really low light issues will be mitigated when you are in a paid position to turn on your speed-light to help out. While many modern cameras have increased the ISO levels, they still exhibit the same old color shift, foreign color, and especially harsher contrast … often exaggerating double chins and neck wrinkles. More importantly, the direction the ambient light at weddings is usually less than optimal. It's often more directly overhead and produces deep shadows in the eye sockets (Raccoon Eye), and produces a harsh shadow under the nose (Moustache).
Where higher ISOs can come in handy is when using flash and employing the "Dragging the Shutter" technique where use of flash is far less intrusive and the ambient plays a larger role, but isn't as color skewed or harsh.
One thing I would suggest is to explore off-camera lighting in concert with your other learning adventures. The faster you can get that down, the faster a lot of the issues you'll face will simply go away. Not that you'll need to do it for every wedding or even a majority of weddings, just the ones that present you with seemingly impossible ambient lighting.
Hope this helps if even a little.
- Marc
Rawfa
Active member
Marc, you are absolutely right regarding the WB. It is such a crucial point that many think can be solved in post, when it's not the case in many situations. Do you WB manually or do you point your camera to a white surface and let it calculate it?
Regarding lights, I currently own an F20M that I don't use for pro stuff, but I've pre-ordered 2 Nissin i40 units that should arrive this year with a little bit of luck.
I've also JUST realized that I even though I can get high iso images really clean on Adobe Camera Raw, when I open them on Photoshop they are a lot more noisier (I've opened a different thread for this here http://www.getdpi.com/forum/image-processing/51790-camera-raw-shows-cleaner-images.html#post601488)
My story with photography is a peculiar one. I've actually majored in film and for a period of time I've directed music videos for MTV, won several film festivals in Spain and Portugal, but it was never what paid my bills. For a period of time I was extremely frustrated with where the industry was going so I've drifted apart and started getting into photography as a hobby...which started getting more and more serious the last few years. I've been working as Project Manager for like 10 years, trying to to manage all my creative stuff on the side...I've also published a fiction book a like 5 years ago and I'm now working on my second. Creativity is a huge part of who I am and if I was to strictly work as a Project Manager I would lose my mind really fast. Oh, btw, I'm putting together a website with my stuff if you want to check it out: Rafael Lopes - Fotografia & Vídeo - Rio de Janeiro (it's all in Portuguese at the moment, you can get the feeling of it)
Regarding lights, I currently own an F20M that I don't use for pro stuff, but I've pre-ordered 2 Nissin i40 units that should arrive this year with a little bit of luck.
I've also JUST realized that I even though I can get high iso images really clean on Adobe Camera Raw, when I open them on Photoshop they are a lot more noisier (I've opened a different thread for this here http://www.getdpi.com/forum/image-processing/51790-camera-raw-shows-cleaner-images.html#post601488)
My story with photography is a peculiar one. I've actually majored in film and for a period of time I've directed music videos for MTV, won several film festivals in Spain and Portugal, but it was never what paid my bills. For a period of time I was extremely frustrated with where the industry was going so I've drifted apart and started getting into photography as a hobby...which started getting more and more serious the last few years. I've been working as Project Manager for like 10 years, trying to to manage all my creative stuff on the side...I've also published a fiction book a like 5 years ago and I'm now working on my second. Creativity is a huge part of who I am and if I was to strictly work as a Project Manager I would lose my mind really fast. Oh, btw, I'm putting together a website with my stuff if you want to check it out: Rafael Lopes - Fotografia & Vídeo - Rio de Janeiro (it's all in Portuguese at the moment, you can get the feeling of it)
Last edited:
I have custom button C3 programed to bring up the WB menu. I then select Custom One which is preset to 2500K (which I believe is the lowest temp the camera will set). If I am am shooting in mixed light or using a flash for fill, while dragging the shutter, I then shoot a custom WB frame and let the camera calculate it. Usually a shot off the Bride's dress will work if it is close to white. I sometimes carry a small grey card for the purpose.
Sony makes the steps to do some basic functions too complex. Even if you get the muscle memory down pat, the buttons are tiny, and some are to close to one another to really work quickly, especially in the dark.
IMO, ISO and WB should have had dedicated buttons not custom selected ones. If you are using more than one camera and working extremely fast, it's easy to forget which of the buttons (that are scattered all over the camera) does what.
Sounds like you are leading the creative life … at least part of the time.
I made it my profession right out of school. Started as an Illustrator/designer, move to being an art director, then up the ranks to Executive Creative Director of Madison Ave Advertising Agencies. I'm a retired "Mad Man" now but still have a few clients and do photography for pay on occasion. I only take weddings that sound interesting.
- Marc