The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

can the A7s do reds?

Paratom

Well-known member
I have been experimenting with the a7s for some days. Today I shot comparisons with my 5dIII and there was nice evening sun.
I really like the A7s IQ but I am not sure about the reds.
The aplle was really red, the Canon kept it, the Sony did not. I played with various profiles and saturation but I cant get there. Another example with the leaves.
Now I wonder how it does skin tones.
And I wonder if the A7/A7r are the same or different in regards of color???
Canon:
S73B8276 by paratom511, on Flickr
Sony A7s:
DSC00280 by paratom511, on Flickr

Canon:
S73B8254 by paratom511, on Flickr

A7s:
DSC00259 by paratom511, on Flickr

all converted in lightroom.
I played with WB, saturation, profiles... it all didnt really help - so whats going on here???
Anybody can post some images of a Ferrari taken with the A7s?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
While the first shot shows quite bait more resin the apple the second shots looks like the Canon shot is bleeding a bit more magenta and maybe a touch of violet in the leaves. Maybe it's my laptop though.

As for the A7 or A7r... I have both and never really noticed any color issues personally.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
While the first shot shows quite bait more resin the apple the second shots looks like the Canon shot is bleeding a bit more magenta and maybe a touch of violet in the leaves. Maybe it's my laptop though.

As for the A7 or A7r... I have both and never really noticed any color issues personally.
Thank you!
I see you also have an M9. Do you see any major color difference between the M9 and the Sonys?
One more thing Isee in A7s images is the sky seems towards cyan.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Thank you!
I see you also have an M9. Do you see any major color difference between the M9 and the Sonys?
One more thing Isee in A7s images is the sky seems towards cyan.
The color between the M9 and Sony's are different for sure but the Sony color is the closest thing I've seen to the M9 in any CMOS sensor. I would say the A7 color is what you would get if the M9 had more DR. The Reds tend to be a bit punchier in the M9. The A7 seems produce scenes with a lot of reds slightly warmer than reality. Scenes with lots of green and blue tend to be slightly cooler than reality. I think that's just a case of the camera profile. Both the M9 and A7 series produce extremely pleasing looks in my eyes. They've been my favorite cameras to use by far.

I sold my M9-P a few months ago mainly because the A7 is quite a bit more versatile.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
The color between the M9 and Sony's are different for sure but the Sony color is the closest thing I've seen to the M9 in any CMOS sensor. I would say the A7 color is what you would get if the M9 had more DR. The Reds tend to be a bit punchier in the M9. The A7 seems produce scenes with a lot of reds slightly warmer than reality. Scenes with lots of green and blue tend to be slightly cooler than reality. I think that's just a case of the camera profile. Both the M9 and A7 series produce extremely pleasing looks in my eyes. They've been my favorite cameras to use by far.

I sold my M9-P a few months ago mainly because the A7 is quite a bit more versatile.
May I ask which you use more often , A7 or A7r?
 

Paratom

Well-known member
this morning i shot some more images of red and colored things with the A7s and my Leica T.
Well...the A7s can do red. It still looks like overall the colors - except green -are not so saturated in A7s images.
The T seems to be able to "see" red and yellow a little "better" than the A7s.
So if my job was to photograph Ferraris I would probably not decide for the A7s.
(Or do you think the Zeiss 2470 draws a little colder??)
 

UHDR

New member
that might have an influence. it was the Zeiss 24-70 on the A7s and the Canon 24-70II on the Canon.
i asked because i read alot of report and from my own experience is that canon lens seems to allow a lot more red through their glass as opposed to zeiss. so overall giving it the warmer feel. and also why people some times describes zeiss lens (coating), cooler/crispier feel.

time to get a EF to E mount adpator! :D

(PS: i dont see canon's warmer tone as a bad thing!!!)
 

UHDR

New member
this morning i shot some more images of red and colored things with the A7s and my Leica T.
Well...the A7s can do red. It still looks like overall the colors - except green -are not so saturated in A7s images.
The T seems to be able to "see" red and yellow a little "better" than the A7s.
So if my job was to photograph Ferraris I would probably not decide for the A7s.
(Or do you think the Zeiss 2470 draws a little colder??)
i think it's the lens. although i only have my a7r for couple of weeks i.e. still too early for conclusion. I have tried a few lens and in general i found leica lens gives better green/warm colour, while zeiss gives better blue and sometimes yellow. :)
 

Paratom

Well-known member
i think it's the lens. although i only have my a7r for couple of weeks i.e. still too early for conclusion. I have tried a few lens and in general i found leica lens gives better green/warm colour, while zeiss gives better blue and sometimes yellow. :)
I just compared the Zeiss Zoom to the 50apo on the A7s...color look nearly identical. I am impressed how good the IQ of the Zeiss Zoom vs the 50APO on the A7s.
I think Leica M lenses can not show their full potential on the A7s.
There are so mixed reviews about the Zeiss 2470 but the sample I have here at least on the A7s seems to deliver pretty consistent IQ.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Sony sensors can take a lot of adjustment. I'd shoot a Color Checker and create a tailored camera calibration. :)

G
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Sony sensors can take a lot of adjustment. I'd shoot a Color Checker and create a tailored camera calibration. :)

G
Thanks,
I ll give it a try.
Experiencing the A7s and today also trying the A7 seems I find the handling of the body and speed of AF better than I expected from reading reviews.
Even though I feel the camera has more buttons than one needs.
And the same goes for the 2470 Zeiss which I find -so far- also better than what I read in reviews.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Thanks,
I ll give it a try.
Experiencing the A7s and today also trying the A7 seems I find the handling of the body and speed of AF better than I expected from reading reviews.
Even though I feel the camera has more buttons than one needs.
And the same goes for the 2470 Zeiss which I find -so far- also better than what I read in reviews.
The A7 has more than adequate AF speed in good light. It's lowlight (especially with slower lenses) where you start to see AF the hunting. In good light the A7 should be the fastest focusing of the A7 bodies... on paper at least.

When I owned the 24-70/4 FE I thought it was a competent lens but I expected quite a bit more for the price personally. I think that's why I sold it - my expectations. I don't think I would've complained about performance (in my head) were it a $6-900 lens. At $1200 I expect a lens to be somewhat special.

What RAW converter are you using? I've been using Capture One Pro 8 as of late but LR5 is still my primary for quick touchups and editing. There's just so many more options and integration with external editors to give it up for now.
 

philip_pj

New member
Canon reds have long been notorious, you can find a huge amount of information on the issue. Most people loved the original 5D for color before the company lost its way, trading off color for high ISO performance. Color in digital is complex and hotly contested. People get used to color and come to see the familiar as 'correct', and most prefer more saturated images. Here is an old piece back when people noticed how good Sony color was, in a900 days:

'The way manufacturers make their general "trade-off choices" is a large part of the manufacturer colour fingerprint also, and those chosen trade-offs also affect the way you can post-process your pictures quite strongly. It's said that MDFB's can be PP'd a lot harder than "normal" cameras, and in part this is very much true - due to the choices an MDFB maker is likely to do when choosing a sensor package.

Most of the Canon "problem" stems from the area that covers the skin-tones. By setting WB to get skintones "just right", you usually screw up the rest of the hues present in the picture. But in controlled lighting, building a profile to make this right is not a problem.'

a850 vs a900, 1 stop better noise performance? - FM Forums

Another related concern for Canon users is the lack of micro-contrast their lenses exhibit - leading to a more flat color rendition. Here was a fun experiment with interesting results:

A Small Experiment:
A small experiment - FM Forums
 

Paratom

Well-known member
The A7 has more than adequate AF speed in good light. It's lowlight (especially with slower lenses) where you start to see AF the hunting. In good light the A7 should be the fastest focusing of the A7 bodies... on paper at least.

When I owned the 24-70/4 FE I thought it was a competent lens but I expected quite a bit more for the price personally. I think that's why I sold it - my expectations. I don't think I would've complained about performance (in my head) were it a $6-900 lens. At $1200 I expect a lens to be somewhat special.

What RAW converter are you using? I've been using Capture One Pro 8 as of late but LR5 is still my primary for quick touchups and editing. There's just so many more options and integration with external editors to give it up for now.
I use LR, still also have C1 and DXO on my computer but allways come back to LR.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Canon reds have long been notorious, you can find a huge amount of information on the issue. Most people loved the original 5D for color before the company lost its way, trading off color for high ISO performance. Color in digital is complex and hotly contested. People get used to color and come to see the familiar as 'correct', and most prefer more saturated images. Here is an old piece back when people noticed how good Sony color was, in a900 days:

'The way manufacturers make their general "trade-off choices" is a large part of the manufacturer colour fingerprint also, and those chosen trade-offs also affect the way you can post-process your pictures quite strongly. It's said that MDFB's can be PP'd a lot harder than "normal" cameras, and in part this is very much true - due to the choices an MDFB maker is likely to do when choosing a sensor package.

Most of the Canon "problem" stems from the area that covers the skin-tones. By setting WB to get skintones "just right", you usually screw up the rest of the hues present in the picture. But in controlled lighting, building a profile to make this right is not a problem.'

a850 vs a900, 1 stop better noise performance? - FM Forums

Another related concern for Canon users is the lack of micro-contrast their lenses exhibit - leading to a more flat color rendition. Here was a fun experiment with interesting results:

A Small Experiment:
A small experiment - FM Forums
The problem here was that the 5dIII did very well with the apple and the A7s didnt show the "life" of the apple in the evening sun.
 
Last edited:

Chuck Jones

Subscriber Member
The problem here was that the 5dIII did very well with the apple and the A7s didnt show the "life" of the apple in the evening sun.
I've been sitting here trying to think of what to suggest you try, as clearly your right your camera seems to be having a problem with the red channel that mine is not. Have you tried doing a master reset of the camera, and starting fresh with the settings from scratch? You mite want to give that a try, and see if that helps.



P.S. I *HATE* yellow colored painted walls with a room full of bright sunlight..... just no way to avoid the spill onto the skin. <sigh>.
 
Top