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The Sony A7II

Godfrey

Well-known member
I would prefer being able to specify a minimum shutter speed. 1/60 just doesn't work well for me with longer lenses. I usually end up using shutter priority or manual instead of aperture priority because of this fixed 1/60 minimum when using AutoISO.
I guess I just hadn't noticed it very much. I have the 50mm on the camera a good bit of the time and just swap to M mode when I want a longer exposure time. With the 90mm or longer, I use M mode most of the time when the light gets dicey. (Remember: for me, the A7 is for adapted lenses. There is no shutter priority or program mode with adapted lenses, just A and M.)

G
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Interesting - I've been looking at the photozone reviews, and they really like the 70-200 f4.

I'd been wondering about the A7ii with the FE 70-200 f4 vs the Olympus E-M1 with the lovely new 40-150 f2.8 (clearly an excellent lens). The combined weight isn't actually that different - which is a bit of an eye opener.
That's not to say the 70-200 FE is bad... It's not a bad lens at all. I'm on the fence about picking one up still after trying it in store but compared to the A-mount versions it's not remotely in the same league. On the A7s it focused quickly and accurately and I think it would be a nice travel lens for most. For me its still a bit of a compromise on the A7r compared to the A-mount versions.

The weight and balance is really nice on it though I must say. How it compares to the Olympus I can't say but I don't think you could go wrong with either. I think the Sony FE is a bit more demanding to develop for when it comes to lenses that standup to the A7R but it may do fine for the A7II... I only had my A7R with me that day. The 70-200 FE certainly did well with the A7s.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I guess I just hadn't noticed it very much. I have the 50mm on the camera a good bit of the time and just swap to M mode when I want a longer exposure time. With the 90mm or longer, I use M mode most of the time when the light gets dicey. (Remember: for me, the A7 is for adapted lenses. There is no shutter priority or program mode with adapted lenses, just A and M.)

G
I think you can still use Shutter Priority with adapted lenses since you're setting aperture on the lens correct? You should be able to see how the shot will turn out with settings effect on I think. I know I certainly used it on my Safari without negative results.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
What's so awful about the implementation of AutoISO?
Seems to work just fine for me.. ??

G
For me Auto ISO on all Sony cameras that I've used tend to jump up to a stop or two higher than it really needs to be in Auto mode but I found I rather clip my shadows than blow my highlights. The human brain naturally thinks of shadows as "dead space" and I find it feels a bit more natural IMO than wonky highlights that seem artificial. Some still prefer to ETTR and that's fine too for some but there's nothing wrong with breaking some "rules."

I guess that's getting more into PP to taste though.
 

jonoslack

Active member
What's so awful about the implementation of AutoISO?
Seems to work just fine for me.. ??

G
HI Godfrey
The parameters are just very limited compared to some other implementations. For instance on the Leica M you can have 1x, 1/2x, 1/4x focal length, plus lens dependent and specific chosen shutter speeds. Not a game changer perhaps, but the focal length bit means you can change lenses without screwing your Auto ISO. It would be so simple to fix (but they don't seem to have done it).
 
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Vivek

Guest
Anyone notice that not only did they eliminate the shelf in the front of the camera, where the original A7 control dial sat, but they also reworked the rear and eliminated the shelf where the play button was situated above. Hitting play on the A7 was very awkward at first as you would rub up against that shelf. After a year of use I don't notice it now but the new design looks much more finger friendly.
I noticed that from day one and it still is awkward. The improvement/change is quite nice.

One more change is the mic/HDMI/USB port loactions. While it may not make much of a difference for actual use, should enhance the stability of the body. We are beginning to see a possibility for a Sony ILCE camera with a real chassis.
 

tn1krr

New member
HI Godfrey
The parameters are just very limited compared to some other implementations. For instance on the Leica M you can have 1x, 1/2x, 1/4x focal length, plus lens dependent and specific chosen shutter speeds. Not a game changer perhaps, but the focal length bit means you can change lenses without screwing your Auto ISO. It would be so simple to fix (but they don't seem to have done it).
And Sean Elwood from Sony Australia confirmed in facebook that there are no changes he can see in regards to auto-ISO. He had the A7 II in hand and was taking questions; I inquired about auto-ISO and this is what he told.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Well Jorgen - not quite . . because the extra mp gives you more croppability - extra because Im not over fond of 4:3 and usually crop to 3:2 anyway . . . and the equivalent aperture (FWIW) is f5.6 on the f2.8 µ43 (light gathering will be more than made up for by the better ISO).
Technically, you are right of course, but me, I judge a lens/camera from what I see in the viewfinder and later on print. Cropping is for graphic designers... which is what I am :facesmack: but not when I take photos :)

But seriously, the whole cropping debate is a bit alien to me. When taking photos, my relatively limited capacity brain struggles enough trying to figure out if what I see within the whole frame is something that resembles a good photograph. Understanding the cropping potential of a photo is something I do with cameras that spend most of their lives on a tripod ;)

The comparison I made was to see which of these camera/lens combinations would be best suited for travel. For that, the Panasonic wins by a wide margin.
 

lambert

New member
Technically, you are right of course, but me, I judge a lens/camera from what I see in the viewfinder and later on print. Cropping is for graphic designers... which is what I am :facesmack: but not when I take photos :)

But seriously, the whole cropping debate is a bit alien to me. When taking photos, my relatively limited capacity brain struggles enough trying to figure out if what I see within the whole frame is something that resembles a good photograph. Understanding the cropping potential of a photo is something I do with cameras that spend most of their lives on a tripod ;)

The comparison I made was to see which of these camera/lens combinations would be best suited for travel. For that, the Panasonic wins by a wide margin.
You don't need to crop in post. With the A7II you can apply cropping in-camera using the APS mode which extends the range of the Sony 70-200 to 300mm, based on the same MP count as the smaller 4/3 sensor. On this basis, the size comparison with the Panasonic is not relevant. The Olympus size comparison is the one you need to compare to given the same reach at the top end and the 5-axis IBIS.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I think you can still use Shutter Priority with adapted lenses since you're setting aperture on the lens correct? You should be able to see how the shot will turn out with settings effect on I think. I know I certainly used it on my Safari without negative results.
Shutter priority operates like Manual with an adapted lens, Program operates like Aperture priority. They work fine, but they're not the same as using a lens that the body can control.

G
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Shutter priority operates like Manual with an adapted lens, Program operates like Aperture priority. They work fine, but they're not the same as using a lens that the body can control.

G
Fair enough. I'm usually in manual mode with the native lenses too.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
You don't need to crop in post. With the A7II you can apply cropping in-camera using the APS mode which extends the range of the Sony 70-200 to 300mm, based on the same MP count as the smaller 4/3 sensor. On this basis, the size comparison with the Panasonic is not relevant. The Olympus size comparison is the one you need to compare to given the same reach at the top end and the 5-axis IBIS.
i disagree strongly. Composing an image in the viewfinder takes a fraction of the time it would take to re-evaluate the composition on the LCD and then make a crop. After I've pushed the shutter release, I will prepare for the next shot, not waste time compensating for the shortcomings of my gear.
 

lambert

New member
i disagree strongly. Composing an image in the viewfinder takes a fraction of the time it would take to re-evaluate the composition on the LCD and then make a crop. After I've pushed the shutter release, I will prepare for the next shot, not waste time compensating for the shortcomings of my gear.
Not sure what you mean?? As soon as you select APS crop mode, the image appears cropped in real time in the EVF and on the LCD.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Not sure what you mean?? As soon as you select APS crop mode, the image appears cropped in real time in the EVF and on the LCD.
I see. I misunderstood you, but then you have an even smaller file than what m4/3 offers. With 10MP from the A7 II in crop mode, the GH4/E-M1 files are actually around 60% larger (area), while a full sized A7 file is only around 50% larger than the m4/3 files.

For many uses, the telephoto discussion is rather uninteresting though. Telephoto lenses are used by many for action, sports, birding and wildlife photography, but with a burst mode of less than 3fps (or is it faster in crop mode?) unless one can live with locked AF, it's not really an interesting camera for those applications. That would be the A77 II or if mirrorless, something from Panasonic, Olympus or Samsung.

Sorry if this looks like a negative attitude from my side, but I try to figure out if this camera would be better for my uses than what I already have. So far, no such luck. I would still like to have one though :)
 
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jonoslack

Active member
Technically, you are right of course, but me, I judge a lens/camera from what I see in the viewfinder and later on print. Cropping is for graphic designers... which is what I am :facesmack: but not when I take photos :)

But seriously, the whole cropping debate is a bit alien to me. When taking photos, my relatively limited capacity brain struggles enough trying to figure out if what I see within the whole frame is something that resembles a good photograph. Understanding the cropping potential of a photo is something I do with cameras that spend most of their lives on a tripod ;)

The comparison I made was to see which of these camera/lens combinations would be best suited for travel. For that, the Panasonic wins by a wide margin.
Ho Hum - well, Silas despises me for cropping - but I do it all the time - certainly in my head when shooting (and I never use a tripod unless I'm testing). To be honest it's not often that much, and it's almost always to the same aspect ratio . . . which is (and always has been) my only real problem with µ43.

It might be something to do with using a rangefinder most of the time, as the framelines aren't strictly accurate it's safer to leave a little room for error on the outside of the image. Also - edges of images are often important to me, and even with an SLR it's safer to leave a little more than you need.

This really is a tough decision for me - this morning I went shooting with the E-M1 and the Leica 80-200 lens in really murky conditions (200mm f4 1/20th ISO 1600). The combination worked really well. Sooner or later I'm going to have to come down in one camp or the other.
 

jonoslack

Active member
i disagree strongly. Composing an image in the viewfinder takes a fraction of the time it would take to re-evaluate the composition on the LCD and then make a crop. After I've pushed the shutter release, I will prepare for the next shot, not waste time compensating for the shortcomings of my gear.
I quite agree about LCD evaluation - but not about cropping - generally edges matter to me, and what's in them is often critical to a picture, the only way to manage this safely is to allow a little more and then crop in post if necessary (even if it's only a tiny amount)
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Ho Hum - well, Silas despises me for cropping - but I do it all the time - certainly in my head when shooting (and I never use a tripod unless I'm testing). To be honest it's not often that much, and it's almost always to the same aspect ratio . . . which is (and always has been) my only real problem with µ43.

It might be something to do with using a rangefinder most of the time, as the framelines aren't strictly accurate it's safer to leave a little room for error on the outside of the image. Also - edges of images are often important to me, and even with an SLR it's safer to leave a little more than you need.

This really is a tough decision for me - this morning I went shooting with the E-M1 and the Leica 80-200 lens in really murky conditions (200mm f4 1/20th ISO 1600). The combination worked really well. Sooner or later I'm going to have to come down in one camp or the other.
You can set the E-M1 to 3:2 mode, can't you?
 
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Vivek

Guest
Sorry if this looks like a negative attitude from my side, but I try to figure out if this camera would be better for my uses than what I already have. So far, no such luck. I would still like to have one though :)
Because it is newly announced? :confused:
 
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Vivek

Guest
I like the fact that the usual suspects aren't handed a sample to "review" and Sony is selling them direct to those who would buy one. :thumbup:
 
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