The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

The Sony A7II

iiiNelson

Well-known member
The A7r is insanely good at landscape, but they choose to not have an EFC or a decent wide angle prime FE. That camera needs to be on a tripod for telephoto focal lengths because of the shutter vibration...
This just isn't true for so many people who use an A7R day in and day out with telephoto lenses. Let's just say I regularly use a Zeiss Contax 180/2.8 (and other telephoto lenses of shorter focal length) on mine no problem.

There are effective workarounds but I digress... I'm not trying to talk you into keeping a camera that doesn't work for you.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Actually, the complaints do have an impact on Sony's way of doing business and they are big enough to take the criticism.

With Canon/Nikon and such- many can whine, plead, do a headstand...nothing ever happens and they come to Sony. :)
Yeah I get that but the lens roadmap is a Google search away for most people.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Yes, odd that Amazon no longer accepts pre-orders for the A7II. It makes me wonder if the initial supply of the new camera is extremely limited.
I think it had to do more with fixing the A7ii kit that was being sold with the new 70-300 instead of the 28-70 for $1999.99. Either someone is gonna get a great deal on the kit or someone is going to be able to get a refund.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
Yeah I get that but the lens roadmap is a Google search away for most people.
Well, that google search "if done properly" (knowing google's sneaky way of channeling of traffic), also shows that goods made in Thailand by Sony are sold at far cheaper prices than in the US orthe EU. They sell them at a profit in Japan. The 55/1.8, for example, is 2x the price here compared to Japan. There are some serious consequences coming to Sony for their behaviour.
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
The FE16-35 not stellar and too big? You mean, besides being the top rated (per DXO) zoom in it's class, and the smallest as well? I have no idea where you get your info from.

Lenses are not a simple or fast thing to design. You can't simply draw up a design and then bang them out on an assembly line. This is an entirely new lens mount and has been available for a year.

Sony (or any maker) doesn't design products as a favor for their intended customer base. They do it to make money. How reasonable is it for them to expend tons of R&D on a lens that will only appeal to a tiny segment of customers within weeks/months of the new system rollout? The ideal way is to hit the mass market needs first and then satisfy the smaller segments.

As it is, they have done an astonishingly good job at supporting legacy lenses, especially now with IBIS. There isn't a single photographic need that can't be met with their FF cameras. The FE mount lenses will come, but we need a bit more patience than a five year old on Christmas eve.
Nice and friendly...

I get my info from a trusted source...me. I use DXO as a base, but certainly don't spend time shooting targets. I'll go and shoot them in real world situations, and for me a lot of that is backcountry winter sports. The Sony A7 is a great camera, but is not suited for high speed sports because the refresh rate in a burst sequence, the viewfinder cannot keep up. Composition is therefore impossible.
The size of the 16-35 FE is comparable to the 24mm ZA with LAEA 3 - small for a zoom though.
The A7 may be newish, but considering the lens roadmap does not show any fast, primes - wide or portrait until maybe 2016, we'll then I will be impatient and open my presents now. The 16-35 is a great addition to the FE, but at this point anything would be.
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
This just isn't true for so many people who use an A7R day in and day out with telephoto lenses. Let's just say I regularly use a Zeiss Contax 180/2.8 (and other telephoto lenses of shorter focal length) on mine no problem.

There are effective workarounds but I digress... I'm not trying to talk you into keeping a camera that doesn't work for you.
I'm talking more about 200mm and beyond for vibration issues.
I want the newest native lenses that have the best resolution and weather resistance with good designs for CA, distortion, etc. I'm not adapting older lenses because I need AF and other smart adapters use more power. Enjoy the A7 I'm sure you'll get the lenses that will make the best use of the A7r's sensor, but by then they'll have released several cameras.
 
Last edited:

neelin

Member
Actually, the complaints do have an impact on Sony's way of doing business and they are big enough to take the criticism.

With Canon/Nikon and such- many can whine, plead, do a headstand...nothing ever happens and they come to Sony. :)
And any day now they just might double their firmware update writing team by adding another programmer. ;)
 
V

Vivek

Guest
And any day now they just might double their firmware update writing team by adding another programmer. ;)
:ROTFL:

That is fine by me as long as they do not hire any of the layoffs from the closed Hasselblad design center. ;)
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
Actually, the complaints do have an impact on Sony's way of doing business and they are big enough to take the criticism.

With Canon/Nikon and such- many can whine, plead, do a headstand...nothing ever happens and they come to Sony. :)
Very true - in a published review of the a900 when it first came out, I complained about Sony's rear lens caps only being put on in the correct orientation - which made working in poor light problematic. (You have to match an arrow with a mark on the mount.) While the A mount lenses still have this problem, the FE does not.

Somebody at Sony was listening.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Very true - in a published review of the a900 when it first came out, I complained about Sony's rear lens caps only being put on in the correct orientation - which made working in poor light problematic. (You have to match an arrow with a mark on the mount.) While the A mount lenses still have this problem, the FE does not.

Somebody at Sony was listening.
Somebody at Sony should have been thinking before launching a new product. This is my main problem with Sony in general and the A7 models in particular. I can't count how many times I have tried these cameras, wanting to like them since they would fill a void in my camera bag. Every time, I've concluded that ergonomics are on level with my OM-3. The OM-3 is of course a fine camera, but it was launched in 1983. Technology has made several improvements possible since then, not least in the area of ergonomics.

The A7 II is most of what the A7 should have been. None of what has been implemented in the new model was unknown to Sony a year ago. Still, the new camera comes with a video button that is impossible to push when the camera is held by one hand only and awkward to use unless one has three hands. They do this in spite of the fact that it has been an issue for a large number of users and in spite of the fact that more or less every other camera known to man (I'm exaggerating a bit here :D ) has that button in a place where it can be reached easily and without shaking the camera much.

This would have been fine if Sony were some startup company with great ideas but little experience. But they are not. They make some of the best cameras and some of the best video gear on the planet. They know this stuff.

It's like somebody at the head of the organisation said something like "Let's make the smallest exchangeable lens full frame digital camera ever, no matter what". It's the "Because we can" syndrome once again. I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly what happened, even if they knew that ergonomics could be improved by making it slightly larger and even if they most probably knew that there wouldn't be any direct competitors around for at least a year. There wasn't any reason to rush this.

So the replacement comes and everything is fine, right? That ain't necessarily so. For while enthusiasts like the members of this forum will pay whatever amount required to get the latest version of the Sony Magic, there are lots of people out there who will be dismayed when they see that their excellent new camera which they bought less than a year ago, has suddenly lost 50% or more in value, making a sale, not to speak of an upgrade, very dubious business. These guys have wifes you know :lecture:

The problem for people like us then is that, if sales fall due to Sony's lack of strategy, development of new lenses and bodies will slow down, leading to further decreasing sales and eventually a halt. Obviously, I cannot predict, and certainly don't hope for, a scenario like that for the A7, but it has happened before, and it will happen again.

Still, I want one :D
 
Last edited:

iiiNelson

Well-known member
The A7 II is most of what the A7 should have been. None of what has been implemented in the new model was unknown to Sony a year ago. Still, the new camera comes with a video button that is impossible to push when the camera is held by one hand only and awkward to use unless one has three hands. They do this in spite of the fact that it has been an issue for a large number of users and in spite of the fact that more or less every other camera known to man (I'm exaggerating a bit here :D ) has that button in a place where it can be reached easily and without shaking the camera much.
They do this because it was by far one of the most requested body modification feature request by people who actually OWNED one after requests for a FF sensor. If you've ever used a NEX and tried taking pictures more than 3 time you would've hit the movie record button that knocks you out of photography mode. It's seriously not hard to slide your thumb to the corner to record movies but I have my cameras set to never record movies unless I switch my mode dial to movie mode. It's just not a feature I care about personally but I realize some do.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I'm talking more about 200mm and beyond for vibration issues.
I want the newest native lenses that have the best resolution and weather resistance with good designs for CA, distortion, etc. I'm not adapting older lenses because I need AF and other smart adapters use more power. Enjoy the A7 I'm sure you'll get the lenses that will make the best use of the A7r's sensor, but by then they'll have released several cameras.
So again a pro DSLR is the best choice for what you describe and the lenses are already there. Based on user reports I've read as well as my own personal hands on experience with a XT-1 I don't think the Fuji AF will be accurate enough for what you want. The AF from the OM-D for instance is noticeably faster and more accurate. The next step from there is to go to pro Canon or Nikon bodies.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I never seen a faster AF body faster or more abilities than the A77II or the A6000. My bet a new A7000 is coming and I can't imagine what they will do to improve it. I shot the A600O with the 135 1.8 and its outstanding. Problem is you can't use a vertical grip on it and will it hold up to a 12 k shoot when you need too. Its a consumer model but the A77II maybe called a Prosumer unit , it's not by any stretch its a Pro cam in a Pros hand. For the 449. Dollars there asking for a A6000 I'm so tempted to buy it again, just to have it handy
 

Viramati

Member
The more I think about the less I am inclined to spend £1599 for this upgrade. As a stills only user I think the IBIS will only be of very limited use to me as I don't shoot very long lenses (longest I have is the leica apo-telyt 135) and for me the problem with low shutters speed is subject movement not really camera shake. The presumed increase of 35% in AF speed is not really a great issue again as for documentary work I find it already fast enough. I am relatively happy with the ergonomics of the present camera and last and not least I probably wouldn't get any more than £500 trade in on my present A7 which is a huge drop in only a year of ownership. Also their new prices drop really quickly the A7s was at £2200 only a few months ago and is now down to £1899 so presumably in a 2-3 months the A7II will be down to around £1000-1100.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
David, The Japanese price is already at 1000 UKP. One can make a visit to Japan and get a camera in that process. In 2 months, there will be HK sellers selling it for much less.

cf: A7s price is 1648 Euros delivered.
 

turtle

New member
While I think the 7II sounds like a very solid upgrade that will really pull new users into the system, I am much less interested in quick upgrades than ever before (in general). If anything, I am determined to pick up the outgoing models at a song than the new ones at a premium.

There has never been a better time for anyone interested in the FE Alphas than now, either with the A7II for the IBIS and improved ergonomics and build, or the old models for the performance powerhouses that are at increasingly bargain prices.

I bought into the A7 and A7R soon after release, but that's because they were ground-breaking. 'That' has happened now and I am using them as my main cameras, so upgrades will only appeal to me when they are either a bargain, or giving me something I need. The truth is I don't need any more than I have. Want is a different matter, but that usually gets put to bed when I look at some of my favourite images from my aerial project and realise they were shot on my teensy-weensy M43 Panasonic GM-1....
 

jonoslack

Active member
David, The Japanese price is already at 1000 UKP. One can make a visit to Japan and get a camera in that process. In 2 months, there will be HK sellers selling it for much less.

cf: A7s price is 1648 Euros delivered.
Hi There Vivek
I noticed this as well - suddenly the A7s sounds more attractive again! (£1399 now ) - admittedly it's a grey import, The combination of the A7s for low light and the A7ii for the rest is pretty compelling (still don't see the need for 36mp).

Ho Hum!
 
Top