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The Sony A7II

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
AA Summicron 75/2 works very nicely on Sony FF cameras (attached with a Hawk Peng V2.5 adapter, lot cheaper than the Cosina adapter though the Cosina version- only one- is absolutely superbly made).

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
A7r, Summicron 75/2, Amsterdam.

Untitled by Vivek Iyer, on Flickr
Hacked A7, Summicron 75/2, Amsterdam Ultraviolet capture, very low shutter speed

The A7 II (IBIS) would have helped me with the 2nd picture.

On a side note, I like Spelt (spelt - Wiktionary) though I might have spelled certain words incorrectly according to some. :)
Thanks Vivek. Great images. Here is a V3.
HAWK'S FACTORY LEICA-M L-M to SONY E-mount MACRO TUBE HELICOID V3 FOR 135 FF
Interesting info with regards to the focal length it works with.
I have a couple of the older HAWKS adapters that don't cut it for FF.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Hi There
I think this is it - but I'm not certain whether they've made two versions (I'm sure that Vivek would know) - the correct version is designed for full frame though - it's outrageously expensive in the UK - I'm being brought one back from the US by a kind forum member.

Edit:
read down to the product description (looks good):
The Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter allows you to use a VM-mount lens on a Sony E-Mount camera as well as shortens the minimum focusing distance of the lens. This allows you to get closer to your subject when shooting. The adapter also features an infinity lock button for securing your focus at infinity. Additionally, this adapter is able to cover a full frame 24 x 36mm sensor.

Thanks again Jono.
Do you know for which focal length that adapter is good?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Thanks again Jono.
Do you know for which focal length that adapter is good?
Typically all of the M<->E/FE mount adapters work well for all M mount lenses so you should be able everything between 12-180mm (or whatever the range is on M lenses.) I only own Voigtlander ones personally but most of them I've read about will focus slightly past infinity even if the lens won't.
 

dandrewk

New member
HI Annna
Whist I agree with you about the lag to what you SEE (clearly more with EVF) the lag to what you GET is much less without the mirror. The X-T1 especially seemed to give you exactly what you saw when you pressed the shutter - the A7s with the electronic shutter seemed pretty good as well. You see it later . . . but get it sooner (if you see what I mean).

Someone showed me a good real life test once - you sit in a cafe with the open door about ten feet away and try and catch people as they walk past the door - it's amazing the difference between one camera and another. . . . and how many of them just present you with a photo of an empty doorway!

I think Jorgen's real reason for the D810 is the inherently better tracking with an SLR - as you say - car racing.
I've tried hard to duplicate this, and have failed. I see very little noticeable lag in the EVF. I've shot lots of birds-in-flight with no blank frames.

Now, I have not shot race cars while panning, so that may indeed show lag. But for near anything else, no noticeable lag. Even in low light when the frame rate slows a bit, it still seems quite current. If there is some way to test this, please tell me.
 

dandrewk

New member
Guy, When you have your A7 II, start a new discussion and lock this thread down. It has run its course.
I don't think it will or should be shut down.

In fact, this has been one of my favorite threads here. It's very balanced and very informative. Even when the discussion gets heated (as happens in ALL photography forums), it's still quite civil.
 

dandrewk

New member
What I'd love to know is what IBIS brings to the table with OSS lenses, with the addition of two axis. Will stabilization of the FE70-200mm @ 200mm show an improvement on the A7II?
 

Michiel Schierbeek

Well-known member
Not to be pedantic, however it is ' dialogue ' in British English.

' Dialog ' ....well...:D

Mercifully, all my kids who are medical doctors would cringe if I spelt pneumonia
Incorrectly.

But back to Sony.
Incorrectly should not have an uppercase to start with because it is still part of your sentence. :D
 
V

Vivek

Guest
I've tried hard to duplicate this, and have failed. I see very little noticeable lag in the EVF. I've shot lots of birds-in-flight with no blank frames.

Now, I have not shot race cars while panning, so that may indeed show lag. But for near anything else, no noticeable lag. Even in low light when the frame rate slows a bit, it still seems quite current. If there is some way to test this, please tell me.
I agree. It is not hard to train oneself for the (anticipated)lag and react quickly. This has been discussed earlier w.r.t the A7r ( it is somewhere in the " Fun with Sony.." thread). In fact, I have had this discussion with Jono and that should also be here somewhere.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
K-H, The 2.5 and 3 Hawk Peng versions work with a bit more stability than the earlier ones. He was the first to come up with the focusing adapter.

(FI: He just got out of the hospital following a heart attack and recovering.)
 

dandrewk

New member
I agree. It is not hard to train oneself for the (anticipated)lag and react quickly. This has been discussed earlier w.r.t the A7r ( it is somewhere in the " Fun with Sony.." thread). In fact, I have had this discussion with Jono and that should also be here somewhere.
Honestly, I don't recall training myself, unless it was done subconsciously.

In fact, I didn't know about this lag "issue" until I read about it forums. I have just never noticed it.
 

rayyan

Well-known member
Oh I thought Vivek's English was "upper class", but what do I know I am not English. :)
There is no so called ' class ' of the written English Language.

There is only one ' class ' , as you call it. It is commonly known as the ' correct ' way to write English.

But then, you and me can be forgiven for our ignorance...after all, as you say, you are not English.

Me....all this is new to me. I write and speak a language rooted in the Armaic and Semitic Scripts.. My Language continues to be spoken and written in common and official everyday life unchanged and understood as it was thousands of years ago.

By the way, the word ' camera ' is derived from my Language. It means a dark room.
Live and learn.

Agreed that in the sentence you pointed out, I should have not used an uppercase ' i ' for the word ' incorrectly '. The quotes are necessary to indicate something specific.

p.s. Or should I have said ' I should not have used an uppercase ...in the sentence above?

p.p.s ' say ' or ' write '? It is so confusing :D
 
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jonoslack

Active member
I've tried hard to duplicate this, and have failed. I see very little noticeable lag in the EVF. I've shot lots of birds-in-flight with no blank frames.

Now, I have not shot race cars while panning, so that may indeed show lag. But for near anything else, no noticeable lag. Even in low light when the frame rate slows a bit, it still seems quite current. If there is some way to test this, please tell me.
hi there. I think you misunderstood me (or perhaps I wasn't clear). I reckon the mirror movement in an SLR more than makes up for the inevitable very slight lag of an EVF meaning that a good mirrorless camera has less overall lag than any SLR . certainly the Fuji X-T1 has the least lag of any camera I've used, and the E-M1 and the A7 aren't far behind.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Thanks again Jono.
Do you know for which focal length that adapter is good?
Unfortunately I haven't tried it yet. I was unconvinced with most M lenses under 50 mm with the A7 when I had it (smeary corners). I was using a Novoflex adapter, which may not have been perfect. I'm still expecting to use the A7ii mainly with native lenses and R lenses (but I'll be trying M lenses with the VME
 

dandrewk

New member
hi there. I think you misunderstood me (or perhaps I wasn't clear). I reckon the mirror movement in an SLR more than makes up for the inevitable very slight lag of an EVF meaning that a good mirrorless camera has less overall lag than any SLR . certainly the Fuji X-T1 has the least lag of any camera I've used, and the E-M1 and the A7 aren't far behind.
Gotcha! Thanks for clearing that up.
 

nostatic

New member
One factor that seems to get lost in this discussion are the intangibles that go into using a tool, and how subjective and often lacking in language those things are. I'm also a musician, and there are forums that have threads that continue ad nauseum about technical minutae. Every once in awhile, someone brings up actually making music :).

I've cycled through a lot of expensive basses over the past few years, selling some pretty amazing instruments. Why? Because for whatever reason, they did not inspire me to take my playing to new places. There weren't specific technical reasons - I just didn't get on with them. And with some, I even liked the recordings from live show and sessions where I used them. But in the end, they just didn't stick. I see some of the same phenomena here. Well, that and GAS - which is alive and well in the musical industry as well.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I've tried hard to duplicate this, and have failed. I see very little noticeable lag in the EVF. I've shot lots of birds-in-flight with no blank frames.

Now, I have not shot race cars while panning, so that may indeed show lag. But for near anything else, no noticeable lag. Even in low light when the frame rate slows a bit, it still seems quite current. If there is some way to test this, please tell me.
The problem when shooting bursts of moving objects is not so much the lag, but the fact that the images that come up in the viewfinder are a slide show of photos that have already bin shot, not what is actually happening at the moment. With fast shutter speeds and objects that follow a predictable path, this is hardly noticeable. For pan shots with slow shutter speed and/or if the object makes a sudden change of path, it becomes problematic, and the object gets blurry (long shutter speed) or the AF starts hunting (change of path).

"The change of path" variety can to some degree be compensated for by a focusing system with very good tracking abilities (an area where most mirrorless cameras have limited abilities), but once the object disappears from the frame, it's lost for the AF as well.

The problem seems to be that current electronic viewfinders cannot feed the camera buffer and the EVF simultaneously when shooting stills. This is btw. a problem for Sony's SLT cameras as well, and I noticed that when a sequence from a sports event was shown in the launch video for the A77 or A99 (can't remember which one of them), it was with an athlete coming straight towards the camera. That's a rather creative way to show a camera's abilities if you ask me.

When the lighting gets low, the problem increases, not because of the EVF, but because cameras without separate phase detect AF sensors seem easier to "fool" by brighter objects appearing in the frame, near the tracked object. Traditional DSLR cameras (and I assume the SLT cameras) seem to stay much more firmly "on track".

When "face detect" is used by the camera to track a person, mirrorless cameras are mostly superior.

Edit: Interestingly, when shooting video, some mirrorless cameras, like the GH3/4, track without problems even in low light, while DSLR AF don't respond at all.
 
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k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Unfortunately I haven't tried it yet. I was unconvinced with most M lenses under 50 mm with the A7 when I had it (smeary corners). I was using a Novoflex adapter, which may not have been perfect. I'm still expecting to use the A7ii mainly with native lenses and R lenses (but I'll be trying M lenses with the VME
Thanks Jono. I understand and recognize your also previously stated points of view. The reason I ask is that I have a Canadian adapter that starts to vignette a bit a 90 mm and severely for 135 mm focal length for FF sensor. For 75, 50 mm and below it is fine.

Quoting from Hawk&apos;s Factory Leica M L M to Sony E Mount Macro Tube Helicoid V3 for 135 FF | eBay

"There are several parts of this improved version,
1, Stroke remains to 5mm,
2, RF lens can be up to 135 mm focal length,
3, Infinity can be adjusted according to the lens,
4, you can lock it at infinity,
5, no longer see oil inside of the hole,
6, the contacts completely out of the way,
7, the lens release button narrow than V2.5,

complementary
V1 ~ version 2.5 can be used to the 75 mm focal length lens

The following is a test version 2.5 on A7r
75 no vignetting (leica 75/1.4)
90 vignetting will occur (leica 90/2 AA)
35 no vignetting, no red edge (LEICA 35/1.4 ASPH 11663)

So, I am looking forward to your experience with the VME adapter.
Thanks again.



PS: Answering my own question, the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter for VM-Mount Lens to BD272A, quote:

"It Vignettes with 90 and 135mm

By BillM
from Los Angeles, CA
About Me Photo Enthusiast
Verified Reviewer

The product is very nicely made.However, the Close Focusing mechanism intrudes such that it is less than a full frame opening. 50mm and shorter is okay. But my F4 135 Elmar and my F2 90mm Summicron have a small but hard vignette in the corners. I also have the Novoflex adapter. It does not have this problem.While the Close Focusing feature is very handy for my 28mm and 35mm lenses, I wouldn't have spent this much money if I'd know that it doesn't fully work with the longer lenses."
 
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The problem when shooting bursts of moving objects is not so much the lag, but the fact that the images that come up in the viewfinder are a slide show of photos that have already bin shot, not what is actually happening at the moment.
Am I missing something here? Why not just turn-off image review?

I've shot plenty of high-speed action with the A7, including panning F1 cars at the US grand prix, in the grandstand where the angle of incidence is 90 degrees at close range. Lag is inconsequential and I certainly don't get a slideshow of image reviews.


 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Am I missing something here? Why not just turn-off image review?

I've shot plenty of high-speed action with the A7, including panning F1 cars at the US grand prix, in the grandstand where the angle of incidence is 90 degrees at close range. Lag is inconsequential and I certainly don't get a slideshow of image reviews.
The A7 seems to work differently from (and better than) the GH3 in this respect. In that case, I may be incorrect with regards to the Sony. What was the shutter speed on these? What are you seeing in the viewfinder between the shots in a burst?

It must be said also that I have shot pans successfully with the Panasonics, but only short bursts and rarely at longer shutter speeds (like 1/60s or longer).
 

Viramati

Member
So, I am looking forward to your experience with the VME adapter.
Thanks again.



PS: Answering my own question, the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter for VM-Mount Lens to BD272A, quote:

"It Vignettes with 90 and 135mm

By BillM
from Los Angeles, CA
About Me Photo Enthusiast
Verified Reviewer

The product is very nicely made.However, the Close Focusing mechanism intrudes such that it is less than a full frame opening. 50mm and shorter is okay. But my F4 135 Elmar and my F2 90mm Summicron have a small but hard vignette in the corners. I also have the Novoflex adapter. It does not have this problem.While the Close Focusing feature is very handy for my 28mm and 35mm lenses, I wouldn't have spent this much money if I'd know that it doesn't fully work with the longer lenses."

My Voigtlander Close focus adaptor certainly doesn't vignette to any degree with my 135 apo=telyt, 90 Elmarit-M or Canon LTM 85/1.8. Have tested them all so I'm not sure what is going on with other peoples
 
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