IBIS issue A7II

[Guy Mancuso]

I think I need espresso number 2 now. Lol

My brain is starting to hurt. Lol

Seriously though this is just my initial theory on it and certainly can be debunked.

 

[k-hawinkler]

Well on the E-M5/1 when half pressing the shutter, the image in the sensor and finder stops jerking around and one can take ones time to manually focus a lens using the stabilized image. That also works for third party lenses. I wouldn't expect any lesser performance from the A7II.

 

[Viramati]

So, David - would you agree with me that the IBIS is still working, but that the problem is the viewfinder steadying when half pressing the shutter is not working?

As far as I can see this is not the case. the IBIS mechanism appears to be active in some way even if it set to off in the menu as you can here it still click in at start up. From test images after having used an OSS lens it is not only not seem to be working in the EVF/LCD it is not also stabilising the image.
Remember that this issue only seems to appear after using an OSS lens otherwise IBIS works fine

 

[k-hawinkler]

As far as I can see this is not the case. the IBIS mechanism appears to be active in some way even if it set to off in the menu as you can here it still click in at start up. From test images after having used an OSS lens it is not only not seem to be working in the EVF/LCD it is not also stabilising the image.

Your observation makes sense to me. Thanks.

 

[Show Performance]

I'm guessing at this but it's starting to make sense to me. If it's actually working but we are not seeing it happen in the finder itself than there is some kind of electronic disconnect to the finder show it. Not having any electronics in the lens might just be the cause for it. My canons show it both in finder and sensor but they have electronic connections.

Now we need to prove it but reading this , I'm smelling something fishy and it comes down to electronics. He is not having a body issue as this is his second one and still not showing it in the finder. My other guess if your plugging in the focal length than only the sensor side is getting that data. That would explain it actually working in image but maybe that plugging in the focal length does not give the data to the finder .

This isn't the case for me. I am clearly seeing the IBIS effects in the EVF even with dumb (no electronics) adapters and manual lenses. This was one of the first things I tested.

 

[jonoslack]

Guy
David has defined this very well. It's not to do with electonics or the lack of it. IBIS works perfectly well in the viewfinder for non electronic 3rd party lenses EXCEPT when you have previously been using an OSS lens.

David
The reason I think that the IBIS is working is that I was getting sharp images at 1/60 with a 200 mm R lens when the viewfinder IBIS wasn't working.

Remember. One of the disadvantages of IBIS over OSS in the early days was that it didn't steady the viewfinder image. As far as I can remember that first appeared with the E-m5 where (I think) it's optional.

Also I think that listening for it can be misleading as that relates to viewfinder stabilisation rather than results stabilisation. Judge by the results. I'll do some more testing.

 

[scho]

Could this issue have anything to do with 3 axis stabilization only with non-native lenses vs 5 axis stabilization with native FE lenses?

 

[jonoslack]

Could this issue have anything to do with 3 axis stabilization only with non-native lenses vs 5 axis stabilization with native FE lenses?

Well, it only happens after you've been using an OSS lens - which apparently reduces it to 3 axis too So:

Normal = 5 axis stabilsation

OSS lens = take away 2 axes = 3 axis stabilsation

3rd Party lens = take away 2 more axes = 1 axis stabilisation :chug:

Whereas

Normal = 5 axis stabilisation

3rd Party lens take away 2 axes = 3 axis stabilisation :ROTFL:

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Guy
David has defined this very well. It's not to do with electonics or the lack of it. IBIS works perfectly well in the viewfinder for non electronic 3rd party lenses EXCEPT when you have previously been using an OSS lens.

David
The reason I think that the IBIS is working is that I was getting sharp images at 1/60 with a 200 mm R lens when the viewfinder IBIS wasn't working.

Remember. One of the disadvantages of IBIS over OSS in the early days was that it didn't steady the viewfinder image. As far as I can remember that first appeared with the E-m5 where (I think) it's optional.

Also I think that listening for it can be misleading as that relates to viewfinder stabilisation rather than results stabilisation. Judge by the results. I'll do some more testing.

Thanks Jono appreciate explaining it to me.

 

[MGrayson]

I see the same issue going from OSS lenses (the only native lenses I have) to a 50 Lux on a metabones adapter. Happily, the result is beautiful anyway.

I would like to have IBIS for the 75 Cron, however. Guess I'll have to buy the 55/1.8 to fool the camera.

--Matt

 

[Annna T]

As far as I can see this is not the case. the IBIS mechanism appears to be active in some way even if it set to off in the menu as you can here it still click in at start up. From test images after having used an OSS lens it is not only not seem to be working in the EVF/LCD it is not also stabilising the image.
Remember that this issue only seems to appear after using an OSS lens otherwise IBIS works fine

If you remember the graph presented by Sony to explain the IBIS :
In native OSS lenses, the body is combining the two axes of stabilization of the lens and three axis (X,Y, roll) from the body. With legacy lenses, there is only three axes of stabilisation from the body. May be that the bug comes from using the OSS lenses stabilization way instead of the legacy way ? As if the body hadn't registrated the change..

 

[Viramati]

Please everyone needs to read the first post carefully. the problem is when switching from a FE OSS lens (zooms) and not when switching from the FE35 or 55

Please could anyone with the FE OSS lenses test this

 

[Viramati]

If you remember the graph presented by Sony to explain the IBIS :
In native OSS lenses, the body is combining the three axes of stabilization of the lens and two axis (shift) from the body. With legacy lenses, there is only three axes of stabilisation from the body. May be that the bug comes from using the OSS lenses stabilization way instead of the legacy way ? As if the body hadn't registrated the change..

Yes this could be a possibility

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Please everyone needs to read the first post carefully. the problem is when switching from a FE OSS lens (zooms) and not when switching from the FE35 or 55

Please could anyone with the FE OSS lenses test this

David have tried turning off power than switch lenses and see if it happens

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Or take zoom off hit shutter waste a shot than try 3rd party. If it's either case it would sound like a bug

 

[jonoslack]

As far as I can see this is not the case. the IBIS mechanism appears to be active in some way even if it set to off in the menu as you can here it still click in at start up. From test images after having used an OSS lens it is not only not seem to be working in the EVF/LCD it is not also stabilising the image.
Remember that this issue only seems to appear after using an OSS lens otherwise IBIS works fine

I agree David
I was testing at 1/60th at 200mm, and my beautifully caffeine/alcohol steadied hands were still producing perfect results.

I've just done it again at 200mm and 1/15th second:
Go from 24-70 (OSS) to 80-200 zoom = shakey viewfinder shakey shot
Go from 55 (no OSS) to 80-200 zoom = firm viewfinder very sharp shot

 

[jonoslack]

Or take zoom off hit shutter waste a shot than try 3rd party. If it's either case it would sound like a bug

That's a good idea - but I doubt if it'll work, as it's no different from adding a lens with no electronics.

(turning off power and switching lenses doesn't work).

I think it's important to find a way for those who don't have non OSS lenses to make it work as a workaround.

I think we should all congratulate David on figuring this out so fast and fastidiously

 

[k-hawinkler]

Thanks Jono for confirming David's finding.

 

[Viramati]

Well thank you Jono. I am expecting Sony to get back to me in a while. I would suggest anyone else who can replicate the issue contact their local Sony support centre. In the UK the number is 0207 365 2810 and my case number is 11882485 if you want to link in. The more feedback they get the more likely that something will happen

 

[Vivek]

David, You may become the first person to force Sony to issue a FW update!

Congratulations!