A9: coming soon to you ...

[Godfrey]

I believe it was the CEO of Leica who said at Photokina: "These manufacturers are going too fast, pushing the customers too hard, with too many new products in too short a time. It will cause them problems." Or something to that effect.

The A9 will likely be another grand technological achievement. YAWN! I don't need another grand technological achievement. I need the time to understand and use the grand technological achievements littering my home already so that I can get what I paid for back in value.

The A7 body's capabilities opened up new areas of endeavor that I've only dipped my toe into so far. By the time I learn to really utilize it and achieve the products of those endeavors to my satisfaction, I'm sure Sony will be on the A9 Mark XX. I'll enjoy hearing your war stories of new equipment discovery through the next new twenty generations of cameras by the end of the year, but I'm going to pass and just work on my photography for the most part this year. There's one new camera I feel I ought to have, a leftover from last year's list of new tools that might make a difference, but for the rest I'm pretty happy with what's in the closet and will be more likely to sell the excess rather than add to it.

G

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

here it comes, take care !

C U,
Rafael

Nah... discontinued already, and will be replaced by some Swiss Army Knife kind of high tech plane that is supposed to do everything but can't really do anything properly. I believe it's called the F35. Must be a Nikon then

 

[dandrewk]

I will take a break from this forum for a few months. These troll posts are not very pleasant.

Define "troll". Is it someone who posts only to provoke, with little or no meaning or factual basis? Or is it someone who happens to disagree with you?

You won't have any luck avoiding either cases in any photography forum.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

On 27 October 2014, Kazuto Yamaki, the CEO of Sigma, said in an interview with http://www.dslrmagazine.com/digital...ntro-con-mr.-kazuto-yamaki-ceo-de-sigma.html:

"It's a bit more difficult to make ART lenses for the Sony FE system because of the not so large diameter of the mount. We don't know why Sony did this. Likely because the E-mount was meant for APS-C first and only after that they did use it for FF too."

For adapted lenses, this doesn't seem to pose much of a problem, since the extra distance between the flange and the sensor solves the challenge, but full frame, large aperture lenses designed for the E-mount, making them as compact as the the design of the system invites to, may be trickier. Also Leica M, with a mount throat that is 2 mm narrower than the Sony E, have had problems with this, even if the flange to sensor distance that is 9.8mm (more than 50%) longer.

I've noticed also that although 40% lighter, the Zeiss FE 55mm f/1.8 is almost as long as the Zeiss ZA 50mm f/1.4 (they are both around 71mm long, although the FE is considerably narrower, probably due to its smaller maximum aperture).

With all this in mind, I see a "hybrid sized" camera coming up, since lens sizes will make the system larger than other mirrorless systems anyway. Something between the A99 and the A7 II? That probably wouldn't be bad idea, considering the success of the Panasonic GH3/4 and the Olympus E-M1, cameras that are as large as small DSLR bodies, in spite of having sensor that are 25% the size of the Sony A7 sensors.

 

[iiiNelson]

Nah... discontinued already, and will be replaced by some Swiss Army Knife kind of high tech plane that is supposed to do everything but can't really do anything properly. I believe it's called the F35. Must be a Nikon then

Th F35 flies too fast to be a proper CAS asset. Hence why the A10 program was actually extended for a bit longer for the immediate future.

 

[fultonpics]

there are people out there producing images with my existing cameras that I'll never be able to match. I'll be on the sucker list for a new A9, but the probable outcome will be: 1.) same quality of images; 2.) smaller bank account.

 

[picman]

haha, I have resisted the temptation of upgrading and still enjoy using my Nex 5r with speedbooster adapter .

And I am still on my 2 A900's! AF speed is of no importance to me as I use it almost exclusively for landscape photography.

 

[iiiNelson]

Define "troll". Is it someone who posts only to provoke, with little or no meaning or factual basis? Or is it someone who happens to disagree with you?

You won't have any luck avoiding either cases in any photography forum.

I believe he's referring to the constant repeating of anti-Sony comments/views in multiple threads by some after some expressing repeatedly of having no interests in Sony cameras. Some seemingly wants everyone else to not like their cameras either because they don't think they can fit their own needs.

I think more and more these people are a bit obsessed with going out of their way to comment on every post about why they don't like Sony cameras or why they they won't buy their lenses. I swear many are simply trying to coach themselves out of GAS.

It's all the same to me. I've come to accept them for what they really are - closet Sony fans. I think they spend more time lurking and commenting here than in the boards for cameras they own. That could be because Sony and MF are probably the two most active boards here usually with Micro 4/3 and Nikon probably about neck and neck.

 

[Ron Pfister]

Interesting discussion. While I agree that the product cycles are insanely short these days, I don't feel the need to own the latest model. I choose a particular camera because of what it does for me, and then I use it until something comes along that brings new features and capabilities that justify an upgrade.

For my needs, a compact mirrorless body with IBIS, EFC (or a completely electronic shutter) and a 36MP FF sensor would be a godsend. After shooting extensively with the D800E and the A7R, I have come to the conclusion that an MP count above 36 isn't worth pursuing for me, as the demands on technique and gear required in the field (tripod) to make full use of the increased sensor resolution quickly become counter-productive. In my mind, the mirrorless revolution is all about excellent image quality in a small and light package and being able to use just about any legacy MF lens that catches my fancy.

So Sony, you'll get my money when you release an A7RII with all the goodies of the A7II.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I believe he's referring to the constant repeating of anti-Sony comments/views in multiple threads by some after some expressing repeatedly of having no interests in Sony cameras. Some seemingly wants everyone else to not like their cameras either because they don't think they can fit their own needs.

I think more and more these people are a bit obsessed with going out of their way to comment on every post about why they don't like Sony cameras or why they they won't buy their lenses. I swear many are simply trying to coach themselves out of GAS.

It's all the same to me. I've come to accept them for what they really are - closet Sony fans. I think they spend more time lurking and commenting here than in the boards for cameras they own. That could be because Sony and MF are probably the two most active boards here usually with Micro 4/3 and Nikon probably about neck and neck.

I think you'll find that those who are posting critical comments to Sony's model policy on this forum mostly are rather active on other forums as well. In my case, that includes the Nikon forum here and other places as well as m4/3 and film forums. Sony is without doubt one of the most interesting camera brands to follow right now, but their model policy should be controversial. They clearly aim to increase each photographer's consumption of camera bodies which is pure consumerism. They are extremely experienced in this field and make products that seem attractive to the consumer without really bringing anything new to the table other than presenting a small full frame body with flawed ergonomics. The emperor really has very little clothes on.

Think about it: If somebody launched a DSLR with the ergonomics of the A7 and a tiny lens selection with a single lens sporting a larger aperture than 2.8, do you think they would survive for long?

If this kind of critisism isn't welcome on the Sony forum, I can stop posting here right now. Maybe that will even bring Vivek back to the table. That would be nice, since his contributions are valuable.

 

[Godfrey]

I believe he's referring to the constant repeating of anti-Sony comments/views in multiple threads by some after some expressing repeatedly of having no interests in Sony cameras. Some seemingly wants everyone else to not like their cameras either because they don't think they can fit their own needs.

I think more and more these people are a bit obsessed with going out of their way to comment on every post about why they don't like Sony cameras or why they they won't buy their lenses. I swear many are simply trying to coach themselves out of GAS.

It's all the same to me. I've come to accept them for what they really are - closet Sony fans. I think they spend more time lurking and commenting here than in the boards for cameras they own. That could be because Sony and MF are probably the two most active boards here usually with Micro 4/3 and Nikon probably about neck and neck.

I don't quite understand this comment. Is my statement that I don't see the need to buy a newer Sony model being construed as anti-Sony? I like my A7 for what it can do with my lenses. I don't see the need for a newer model, for my use, at the present time. I'm thrilled to see all you other folks exploring and enjoying each of these new models as they come along, reporting their benefits and pitfalls.

I do feel Sony is pushing the product cycle a bit too fast, but eh? Sony's nearly always done that. They produce pretty good products along the way.

G

 

[Show Performance]

I

Think about it: If somebody launched a DSLR with the ergonomics of the A7 and a tiny lens selection with a single lens sporting a larger aperture than 2.8, do you think they would survive for long?

If this kind of critisism isn't welcome on the Sony forum, I can stop posting here right now. Maybe that will even bring Vivek back to the table. That would be nice, since his contributions are valuable.

No Jorgen, you think about it - clearly you haven't enough,

Sony didn't launch a DSLR, they launched a compact mirrorless FF camera that can mount almost any lens made for the 35mm format. I'm sorry if you are so offended that there are talented, thoughtful photographers out there embracing these tools.

 

[Show Performance]

a900 user here (I can hear and feel the board ones dropping off of their seats and hear the door shutting as they leave the room). Many of you gear guys don't seem to realize that it doesn't matter which camera you use if your photos are crap. Crap in, crap out.

My photos are hardly great but you know, the a900 works for me and what I like to do. An a9 won't make a better photographer if I don't have the drive to do better. An a7 in all of its various incarnations isn't going to make me a more exciting person, or a better husband and father. My Leica M6 will out live me and seems to do better than I do after it is dropped to the ground.

It just seems to a lot of us that Sony is cranking out a new computer, er camera, every few months, and it really makes absolutely no difference in the quality of the photos and photographers out there.

What is a Cron 75AA?

Nothing wrong with the A900 Mikal!

To be fair, I think what we are seeing here is the rapid development of a nascent platform and thus shorter product cycles. Personally, the draw of mirrorless was always the combination of compactness, lens flexibility and sensor performance. With the A7II, Sony further advanced mirrorless FF capability to a point where it draws near to the traditional capabilities of a modern SLR - and improves on them in some ways.

You could guess that their goal is to make mirrorless a completely viable and preferred platform, thus the accelerated development. Those of us that choose to be on this ride should have eyes wide open to the fact that it is a developing platform, not a mature DSLR. Look at the poor A-mount users, wallowing in three year cycles on the high end. If you don't want to spend money on new gear, that is the place to be

I think Sony is on a great pace with their FE products and I expect to see even more improvements in the next few years. Will any of those make you a better photographer? Probably not, you need an eye and a brain for that.

 

[Steve P.]

I see nothing in this thread that constitutes anything more than the usual back and forth of differing opinions, expressed forthrightly and, for the most part, received in a spirit of politeness and respect that we are all accustomed to on get DPI. A lively debate is the sign of a healthy forum. It's O.K. to express 'anti-Sony' comments in a Sony thread, otherwise it's not a forum at all, merely propaganda. Singling out individuals for personal criticism because they express contrary opinions and then robustly defend them is unnecessary. Calling other members trolls for doing so is unnecessary and wrong. Nothing important is under attack here. We're just talking about cameras, that's all.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

No Jorgen, you think about it - clearly you haven't enough,

Sony didn't launch a DSLR, they launched a compact mirrorless FF camera that can mount almost any lens made for the 35mm format. I'm sorry if you are so offended that there are talented, thoughtful photographers out there embracing these tools.

I'm not offended by photographers using these tools. Photographers are entitled to use whatever cameras they choose. I'm offended by Sony's marketing hype and I question their intentions and ability to service all the camera models and standards that they have launched the last ten years.

The camera business has been a relatively conservative one until recently, even after the introduction of digital cameras. The only reason to change that was to increase the profit of the corporations making most of the cameras. Frequent upgrades of cameras have lead to no improvement in images published whatsoever. There have been technical improvements that have made taking photos under certain circumstances easier, but nobody except the shareholders of companies like Sony, Nikon and Panasonic have much to earn from getting those upgrades on an annual basis.

The result is that many photographers spend more money on cameras than ever before. One can always claim that this is each photographer's own choice, but with a constant commercial pressure and constant technical improvements, it's always tempting to upgrade. When you look at forums like this, forums that started with a fair balance between cameras and photos, it's very clear that the focus is increasingly tilted towards gear, and less towards creative solutions and actual photography.

I find it ironic that some of the best photos on getdpi at the moment are posted on the Ricoh GR thread, a thread for a camera that is not new, has only been released in one version and cannot really be upgraded in any practical way.

The A7 is a fine camera, although flawed in several ways, and many good photos are taken with it. The A9, if it comes to existence, will probably be even finer, but the commercial circus around it is just that: A Circus.

And just to illustrate how short-lived these things have become:
The last time Sony launched something that was even better than sliced bread, the RX1, it was easy to get the impression that photography would never be the same again. The last 6 months, fewer than one photo per week have been posted on the RX1 thread on this forum. The RX1 was introduced in September 2012, less than two and a half years ago. That's how long the Sony revolutions last. That's what I call consumerism.

But when somebody offers me an A7 for less than $500, I'll consider it

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

I think Sony is on a great pace with their FE products and I expect to see even more improvements in the next few years. Will any of those make you a better photographer? Probably not, you need an eye and a brain for that.

It's the only camera system where there's a real chance that there will be more different bodies available than lenses in the native mount, I'll give them that :ROTFL:

 

[stephengilbert]

There are people who can't let anyone else have the last word, especially when they know that word is "wrong." These people populate the internet.

Someone Is Wrong On The Internet

 

[scho]

Nah... discontinued already, and will be replaced by some Swiss Army Knife kind of high tech plane that is supposed to do everything but can't really do anything properly. I believe it's called the F35. Must be a Nikon then

A few years ago I was in a canoe out on a wilderness lake in the Adirondack mountains when an A10 dropped down over the tree tops and came screaming down the lake towards me kicking up a huge rooster tail of water. I could see the pilot grinning as he pulled up and took off. Took awhile for me to get my jaw back in place. :wtf::loco:

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

There are people who can't let anyone else have the last word, especially when they know that word is "wrong." These people populate the internet.

Someone Is Wrong On The Internet

Probably something wrong with my brain. I just love to be a nuisance :loco:

 

[mjm6]

I'm not offended by photographers using these tools. Photographers are entitled to use whatever cameras they choose. I'm offended by Sony's marketing hype and I question their intentions and ability to service all the camera models and standards that they have launched the last ten years.

Then get off the internet. Stop going to SonyAlphaRumors. Go out and use your cameras to make photographs or something to help keep you from being drawn into the marketing spin cycle.

Don't blame the purchase of cameras on the manufacturer. The consumer is the one making the purchase decision, and if they choose to upgrade, then that is their decision. You could only blame the manufacturer if they built a shoddy product that forced an upgrade (M8 anyone?).

I don't need to defend Guy here, as I think he is the classic example of "early adopter". But, he sees the individual features/merits/capabilities of a camera or lens and makes a decision about whether that will be beneficial for his shooting, and whether the upgrade is worth it, whether that is in dollars of income, or personal satisfaction with the quality of the images he produces, or whatever it is that motivates any one of us.

Also, you have to remember that people are spending more on their cameras now than ever before because they aren't spending it on FILM. The money that I used to spend on TXP and PKR plus all the LF and ULF film is instead being spent on the sensor. To me that is a reasonable trade in a somewhat twisted kind of way. After a few years of shooting, I can at least sell the camera for something, whereas all the film I've shot has little value to anyone but me, and only then the good images.

If anyone has a right to be pissed at the camera manufacturers, it's the likes of Agfa, Ilford, and Kodak, who couldn't figure out how to transition from the film based market to digital, and look at where they are now; one gone, one a mere shadow of itself, and one that looks like it may survive but in diminished capacity.

[[[Oh, and I'm not saying this to suggest that you (or anyone) should leave this forum or the internet, but that the OCD aspect of our nature and the readily available 'information' on the internet can lead to obsessive product watching and ultimately feeds into the sense that there is huge hype for a product. I think it's good for all of us to step away at times.]]]

---Michael