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Sony Zeiss FE 35mm F1.4 ZA

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
No it's time for DXO to go away. It really says nothing about the lens and reality with post processing and such. Think about this do you give a raw image to a client or print from one. Never it's always fully processed to the best if your abilities. Now it's a final image.

Never ever liked DXO scores it's says nothing about what the final image is
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I've said this a million times take this stuff as a puzzle and this is just a piece of it. I say this even with my own lens tests. Which are always neutral and honest. Problem is people swear by DXO scores to make a buying decision alone or listen to some stupid *** reviewer that's 15 years old and has a video presence . Don't get me started. I could throw up of what I see lately on reviews. Popularity means nothing here. Early morning only 1 espresso so far.
 
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Vivek

Guest
Problem is people swear by DXO scores to make a buying decision alone or listen to some stupid *** reviewer that's 15 years old and has a video presence . Don't get me started.
I can add some U tube and facebook links if that would help you get started. :poke: :D

BTW, Zeiss have upgraded their presence to facebook. They break all their news and explain the salient features like the OLED screen and such there. :LOL:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I've said this a million times take this stuff as a puzzle and this is just a piece of it. I say this even with my own lens tests. Which are always neutral and honest. Problem is people swear by DXO scores to make a buying decision alone or listen to some stupid *** reviewer that's 15 years old and has a video presence . Don't get me started. I could throw up of what I see lately on reviews. Popularity means nothing here. Early morning only 1 espresso so far.
Well in fairness to DXO I don't have a problem with what they do as they provide neutral quantitative data. Nothing wrong with what they do. The problem is how SOME people think in that they take that metric as the ONLY metric that ultimately matters instead of adding it as a factor to add with all the other data to make an informed preliminary decision before subjective testing begins. You see that honestly in everything from audio where people look for the speakers with the least amount of distortion or how some people prefer the analog sound of vinyl to uncompressed digital formats. You also see that in sports every year where these scouts fall in love with the metrics of unknown players when 90% of what you need to know can be found on game film.

People just have an incessant need to quantify everything... Even what their eyes see and their subjective emotions feel.
 

jfirneno

Member
Maybe but I will say that with regards to the overall look that this lens is a step better than them all so far IMO. I can't quantify it numerically but there's a special character to this lens. This lens is quite a bit different than anything else in the FE mount save for maybe the 55FE and it's not too far behind the A-mount 135/1.8 in "magic pixie dust."

No it's not quite as nice as the 135mm A-mount lens (well I don't think so yet) but it's the second "special" FE lens that I've used so far in addition to the 55FE. Everything else has been mostly just serviceable based on need and utilitarian IMO. This lens, the 55FE, and probably the Batis line are going to be the native lenses that are going to be the reasons why you buy into the FE system.
"Magic pixie dust" indeed. I'm glad you mentioned the 135 f1.8. That's kind of the feel I get. It's bright and clear and clean. The images have pop. And I'm gonna stop whining about how big it is. It's worth it.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
"Magic pixie dust" indeed. I'm glad you mentioned the 135 f1.8. That's kind of the feel I get. It's bright and clear and clean. The images have pop. And I'm gonna stop whining about how big it is. It's worth it.
Yeah I shot them side by side on Friday. Very similar in rendering with the 135mm having just a bit more (and I seriously mean just a bit) sharpness. Definitely can tell they're from the same family of lenses and yes I agree I rather have the burden of a bit more mass to get results I'm ecstatic about when I do my part than deal with a light lens that causes me to constantly look for something "better."

I'm finally set at the 35mm focal length although if the Sigma Art was native FE or if I could AF out past the center 1/3 then I would've stayed with it. The Sigma Art is more neutral in look and possible just a tad sharper. The 35FE Distagon gets me the look I'm after with less PP and has way more "3D" to it. That's really the largest draw for the 35 FE Distagon... Native compatibility as designed. The aperture ring is a nice touch although I usually leave it on A to control the aperture from the camera most of the time.
 

Annna T

Active member
No it's time for DXO to go away. It really says nothing about the lens and reality with post processing and such. Think about this do you give a raw image to a client or print from one. Never it's always fully processed to the best if your abilities. Now it's a final image.

Never ever liked DXO scores it's says nothing about what the final image is
Personnally, I like to look at their sharpness tests, especially at what they name the fieldmap graph, where you choose the Fstop and focal length (in case of zooms) and you get an idea of how sharp your full frame will look.

As for the combined scores they don't mean much for me; I have the feeling that:
a) in the ponderation of the final scores they give too much importance to what they name light transmission (and which mostly depends from the largest aperture, a physical characteristic of the lens).

b) the center sharpness is also overweighted in their final scores for sharpness, with lenses privileging uniformity of the frame above center sharpness getting worse scores.

So most of the times lenses having a fast max aperture are advantaged with respect to other good uniform F2.8 lenses.
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Agree i was being sarcastic as you can tell. Some data has use, I like to look at it but full testing by myself or someone I trust paints the quality of lens better. But honestly there are very few reviews I trust too and reviewers.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Personnally, I like to look at their sharpness tests, especially at what they name the fieldmap graph, where you choose the Fstop and focal length (in case of zooms) and you get an idea of how sharp your full frame will look.

As for the combined scores they don't mean much for me; I have the feeling that:
a) in the ponderation of the final scores they give too much importance to what they name light transmission (and which mostly depends from the largest aperture, a physical characteristic of the lens).

b) the center sharpness is also overweighted in their final scores for sharpness, with lenses privileging uniformity of the frame above center sharpness getting worse scores.

So most of the times lenses having a fast max aperture are advantages with respect to other good F2.8 lenses.
True but most lenses give optimal performance stopped down a stop or two so the faster lenses have an "unfair" advantage of being in a sweet spot usually where a slower lens is still wide open. Usually most lenses are great from about f/4.5-f/8 so then you are looking at microcontrast advantages afforded by more expensive lenses, exotic elements, and improved lens coatings that give the faster/more expensive lenses further advantages.

The exceptions are lenses like the Leica APO-Summicrons or Zeiss Otus lenses that are no nonsense lenses designed to be excellent at every aperture from wide open - but you pay dearly in financial means and/or weight. Even when you design an excellent slow lens like the Leica WATE that performs at wide open you pay dearly in financial means. The 24 Elmar is maybe an exception but it's still not cheap... Just Leica cheap. Great optic though but it's larger than the nearly 2 stop faster 35 Summicron ASPH as well.
 
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Vivek

Guest
The lenses I covet are 28mm f/1.4 Summilux, 50mm f/2 AA Summicron and a few others (to be mainly used on Sony!). Performance in a tiny package does come with its price. When someone is unchallenged, they can afford to set the price wherever they like.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
The lenses I covet are 28mm f/1.4 Summilux, 50mm f/2 AA Summicron and a few others (to be mainly used on Sony!). Performance in a tiny package does come with its price. When someone is unchallenged, they can afford to set the price wherever they like.
Yeah if I still had a Leica body I would probably want those as well... Maybe.
 

tn1krr

New member
Personnally, I like to look at their sharpness tests, especially at what they name the fieldmap graph, where you choose the Fstop and focal length (in case of zooms) and you get an idea of how sharp your full frame will look.

As for the combined scores they don't mean much for me; I have the feeling that:
a) in the ponderation of the final scores they give too much importance to what they name light transmission (and which mostly depends from the largest aperture, a physical characteristic of the lens).

b) the center sharpness is also overweighted in their final scores for sharpness, with lenses privileging uniformity of the frame above center sharpness getting worse scores.
+1. I do not ever look at actual scores that much, but the sharpness field maps are useful. My FE 24-70/4 OSS test (returned the lens after testing it few days) was perfect example. I could see the issues I had with both 24 and 70 mm materialize 1:1 in dxomark field maps.

There are some quite strange things in dxomark though. Take for example Zeiss Makro Planar 100/2. Stellar lens, many places, lenscore.org for example, test it to resolve nearly as well as APO Sonnar 135/2 with the correction being somewhat behind the APO. Field maps in dxomark are perfect in every aperture from open. Yet it scores perceptual megapixel value of 23 on D810 body vs 35 of the Apo Sonnar.

As for the FE 35/1.4, a very fine lens no doubt about it. The rendering&colors look very nice. But given quite the no compromize size/price I hoped a bit more from the widest apertures; we may have a 60 MP sensor just around the corner. Maybe FE 55 price/size/performance has calibrated my expectations wrong.
 

Annna T

Active member
+1. I do not ever look at actual scores that much, but the sharpness field maps are useful. My FE 24-70/4 OSS test (returned the lens after testing it few days) was perfect example. I could see the issues I had with both 24 and 70 mm materialize 1:1 in dxomark field maps.

There are some quite strange things in dxomark though. Take for example Zeiss Makro Planar 100/2. Stellar lens, many places, lenscore.org for example, test it to resolve nearly as well as APO Sonnar 135/2 with the correction being somewhat behind the APO. Field maps in dxomark are perfect in every aperture from open. Yet it scores perceptual megapixel value of 23 on D810 body vs 35 of the Apo Sonnar.

As for the FE 35/1.4, a very fine lens no doubt about it. The rendering&colors look very nice. But given quite the no compromize size/price I hoped a bit more from the widest apertures; we may have a 60 MP sensor just around the corner. Maybe FE 55 price/size/performance has calibrated my expectations wrong.
The problem with their sharpness score comes from the fact that it is also a combined score (different apertures, different position in the frames and for zooms different focal length). What is exactly a score of 23 or 29 mpix ? They don't disclose exactly how this is calculate. So depending on how they combine the results they could advantage a lens over another. This us why I prefer to look at the field maps. Often, looking at the fieldmap, i don't understand how they rate one lens above the other. For instance, they gave the 28mm F2 a better score for sharpness, but it has soft corners at a lot of apertures. If I remember, you have to stop down to F8 if you want a little uniformity on the whole frame.

Yes, there are some surprising results at times; could be due to samples variations ?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
+1. I do not ever look at actual scores that much, but the sharpness field maps are useful. My FE 24-70/4 OSS test (returned the lens after testing it few days) was perfect example. I could see the issues I had with both 24 and 70 mm materialize 1:1 in dxomark field maps.

There are some quite strange things in dxomark though. Take for example Zeiss Makro Planar 100/2. Stellar lens, many places, lenscore.org for example, test it to resolve nearly as well as APO Sonnar 135/2 with the correction being somewhat behind the APO. Field maps in dxomark are perfect in every aperture from open. Yet it scores perceptual megapixel value of 23 on D810 body vs 35 of the Apo Sonnar.

As for the FE 35/1.4, a very fine lens no doubt about it. The rendering&colors look very nice. But given quite the no compromize size/price I hoped a bit more from the widest apertures; we may have a 60 MP sensor just around the corner. Maybe FE 55 price/size/performance has calibrated my expectations wrong.
I don't know what the tests say but like the 55FE the 35FE Distagon is one that really shines on the higher MP body above the lower MP bodies. I don't think there will be any issues on a ~60MP body with the 35FE Distagon, the 55FE, or the Batis lenses.
 
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Vivek

Guest
If I remember, you have to stop down to F8 if you want a little uniformity on the whole frame.
You are wrong. Either you did not check the lens properly or read something (if it was written that way) bogus somewhere.

The 28/2 already hits the maximum at f/4. If any lens is good at f/8 then it is not for the A7r and the like. There is a small factor called diffraction and despite Sony massaging the files when a FE lens is used, still creates problems.

You can always up the saturation or tone the heck out of it. There are many splendid examples. :)
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Which is pretty consistent that MOST lenses are at or near optimum performance stopped down a couple stops. Some are at/near optimum aperture at a little more than 2 stops and some a little less. Sort of what I was saying with why many faster lenses get "better" results (combined with lens coatings, exotic glass elements, etc.) than slower lenses that aren't optimized to perform extremely well from wide open to diffraction limit.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The 2 Loxia lenses for example are really good even into the corners by F4. The center it's at 2.8. Optimum I think it's safe to say F5.6 after that it's not improving except DOF and diffraction starts settling in. I rarely shoot past F8 on any lens and F8 is purely for DOF reasons if needed.
 

Annna T

Active member
You are wrong. Either you did not check the lens properly or read something (if it was written that way) bogus somewhere.

The 28/2 already hits the maximum at f/4. If any lens is good at f/8 then it is not for the A7r and the like. There is a small factor called diffraction and despite Sony massaging the files when a FE lens is used, still creates problems.

You can always up the saturation or tone the heck out of it. There are many splendid examples. :)
Yes, I was somewhat wrong, but the 28mm only gets uniform frame at F5.6 while the 35mm F1.4 is already clean at F2.8. I know that fast lenses will become better earlier. Still for me that doesn't justify that the 28mm get a better sharpness score than the 35mm.

You can look at the field map at DXO (measurements, sharpness, field map). This is where I get my info : Sony FE 28mm F2 on Sony A7R versus Sony Carl Zeiss Distagon T* FE 35mm F1.4 ZA on Sony A7R versus Sony FE Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* 55mm F1.8 ZA on Sony A7R - Side by side lens comparison - DxOMark
 
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